Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Marten's fundamental character
maxis:
i can relate to the way Marten deals with stuff, make others happy=you happy(either morally or actually). he does have a little bit of a right to go off, seeing as it WAS him who befriended her when she was new, dealt with her attitude problems, helped her get over her emotional problems, and what did he get? rejected. not saying he did it right, the bourbon saw to that, but he helped her/liked her and she went with others. and Dora? same thing. he dealt with her crazy over the top emotion problems. he did all he could to prove that he was over Faye, and yet she still broke it off and he finally snapped. you can only use that type of problem-dealing system for so long before you just snap.
Olymander:
--- Quote from: raoullefere on 15 Dec 2010, 03:17 ---*Another footnote. I may be twitching my patella here, but every time I see someone try to label Marten as 'spineless' what I really see are people conditioned by pop culture—in quite a few of those shit-eating sit-coms Carl was referencing in the Weekly, not to mention quite a few films—to perceive any character who doesn't make an extreme gesture when their 'rights' are trodden on as 'spineless.' By the same token, when Marten more or less flipped his shit on Dora (admittedly, she was egging him to do so—how else was she going to bring things to an end? Welcome to Self-destruction 101, folks), here came all the glad cries of "Woot! He got a spine! Don't lose it, dude."
--- End quote ---
Twitching your knee? Just don't bang it into anything! As a digression, I don't know that I'd say it's conditioning by pop culture, to me it seems more like what I tend to call the American idea of the "cult of individuality", perhaps best espoused by the mantra of "be loud, be proud, be yourself", with the implication being that if you're not "loud and proud", you're a repressed do-nothing. Thus, the sudden attraction to Marten speaking out; he was "loud and proud" and expressed his individuality all over... by trampling on someone else. After all, what greater expression of individuality is there, than by expressing his own desires and wants over someone (everyone) else's? Consider it a further extension of the "Me generation" paradigm.
Boomslang:
--- Quote from: Olymander on 16 Dec 2010, 08:57 ---Twitching your knee? Just don't bang it into anything! As a digression, I don't know that I'd say it's conditioning by pop culture, to me it seems more like what I tend to call the American idea of the "cult of individuality", perhaps best espoused by the mantra of "be loud, be proud, be yourself", with the implication being that if you're not "loud and proud", you're a repressed do-nothing. Thus, the sudden attraction to Marten speaking out; he was "loud and proud" and expressed his individuality all over... by trampling on someone else. After all, what greater expression of individuality is there, than by expressing his own desires and wants over someone (everyone) else's? Consider it a further extension of the "Me generation" paradigm.
--- End quote ---
To quote the comic, 'Bitter much?'
Marten is clearly suffering for his lack of assertiveness. His work life, music career, romance with Dora, etc. have all become depressing parodies of themselves, in ways that stem from his apparent inability to do anything other than simply 'go with the flow', whatever that flow may be. In the sea of life, everyone's affected by the weather, but unless you set a course and tack into the wind when you have to, any destination you have in mind will never appear on the horizon.
People were rejoicing because it initially seemed that Marten had decided to take responsibility for what happened in his own life rather than let it be dictated by the whims of others. Maybe it was a step in that direction, it's hard to know.
But the path Marten was on is only going to lead to his own happiness through the kindness of others, he can't take any credit for the good things in his life if he didn't put the effort into achieving them. And I think that he deserves better.
Carl-E:
Oh, goodie, more nautical metaphors!
Seriously, you both make good points. While there's a lot to be said for individualism, and taking control of your own life, pop culture has made it a goal beyond reason. One life is not more worthy than another because that person struck out on their own and forged their llife from nothing rather than taking a more sedate, corporate path, "shilling for the man". As for the Me generation, take it from someone who lived through it, it wreaked a lot of havoc, and left an indelible stain on the generations that followed, especially the entertainment industry.
Just remember, individualism can manifest in different aspects of the same life - I give you the example of a good friend of mine, a corporate accountant (because he can, and the money's good), but also one helluva musician - the director of two choirs, a bell choir, and an organist and music director for two churches and a synagogue. At work, he's just another grey suit, near the bottom of the totem pole. But to those of us in one of his groups, he's the supportive leader who brings out our best.
Yes, Marten's been coasting, sailing with neither map nor compass, if you will. But that doesn't mean he's not the center of his little social circle, the anchor, supporting his friends, doing good by being that nice guy that he's so good at being.
Not every ship is meant to cross the ocean, discover new lands, or win a regatta.
Some are just out for a nice sail.
Boomslang:
--- Quote from: Carl-E on 16 Dec 2010, 22:45 ---Oh, goodie, more nautical metaphors!
--- End quote ---
And now that I'm not actually sailing around, I won't get decked (sorry) for using them.
--- Quote ---Not every ship is meant to cross the ocean, discover new lands, or win a regatta.
Some are just out for a nice sail.
--- End quote ---
"...A three hour tour.
A three hour tour!"
Please don't tell me I have to explain that reference.
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