Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
GeoffTheLlama:
--- Quote from: JackFaerie on 15 Dec 2010, 07:40 ---I strongly disagree that "there's no self defense with a drunk guy." What are women supposed to do, just let ourselves be groped?
--- End quote ---
Yes. Yes you are. After all, how else are the Nice Guys going to get any action?
/sarcasm
ta-kun_1986:
Ok another newbie here. Plz forgive lol.
After reading all this sexual assault and groping business I had to go back and reread the comic to make sure I didn't miss anything. All I see is Marten saying things that are inappropriate. Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye. Now you could argue that with the angle of his arm he might be going in for a grope, but that'd be speculation as it's out of frame. I'd personally like to give him a little credit. I feel like people are being a bit harsh with their wording. Yes he's being wildly inappropriate, but based on whats shown I'd hardly say he's sexually assaulting Faye. Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.
raoullefere:
--- Quote from: gathayah on 15 Dec 2010, 06:24 ---One the one hand, I've always been a believer of the idea that drunk words are sober thoughts. So Marten could very well just be an asshole. On the other hand, Marten could have very well just been spouting nonsense because he's hurt and wants everyone else to hurt like he does. Regardless, what he said was totally out of line. Faye hitting him was definitely impulsive and perhaps not the best of reactions, but she was definitely in the right putting him in his place.
I'm not going to judge Marten based on this just yet. He'll have the chance to redeem himself once he sobers up.
--- End quote ---
You got it right on the second one. The released 2-year-old believes strongly in "misery loves company." Does Marten believe this stuff? On some level, the bawling "it isn't faaaiiirrrr" child inside certinainly does. We all have thoughts like this, and we all suppress them because we know they're not a real evaluation of either our own situation or others. Normally, therefore, we keep them to ouselves. Enter Alk-ee-hol, the Great Liberator. 'Tis why many a folklore holds that strong drink in excess either allows in or releases devils in one's nature.
Having these thoughts makes Marten human, not an asshole. Faye has had similar thoughts—she's touched on them, in a less mean way, to Dora, so she should understand. And no, she didn't hit him for having them. Faye hit Marten for the same reason she (nearly) always his him—what she considered inappropriate touching. Supposedly, it's a nigh-uncontrollable reflex, as I recall. (Or so she's maintained.)
I do hope this's the bottom for Marten, but that all depends on how good he is at feeling sorry for himself. Up 'till now, I'd have said 'not very.' But he's been dragged here to an extent by Dora's condition (like I said, it's contagious), and also because he's hit a wall we've seen him nearing on other fronts for some time.
Like Odin, I gots theories on all this, which, like him, are placed elsewhere. Check into my posts if you want more.
Naah, didn't think so. S'al'right.
Wiregeek:
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 06:52 ---Okay, I...I will tell you, as a man who used to drink very regularly, alcohol does not "free" you from jack shit. It lowers your inhibitions, yes, but at the same time it poisons the emotional and logical centers of your brain in equal measure. Every time I gave tried to say something true while drunk, it was warped by the fact that I was fucking drunk. And woe betide me if I was upset about anything or worried about anything, because that was amplified up to the proverbial Eleven.
Drunk words are the sober thoughts of one's, as Akima put it, selfish inner two-year-old for whom everything is me, me, me. Alcohol is not a fucking mind freedom device, it is a brain poison. Faye is talking to a man with a poisoned brain.
--- End quote ---
Quoted for incredible truth. As a man who is an alcoholic, and will be for the rest of his life, I confirm your words, and shout them as 'Truth' to the stars.
I can't fault Faye for her handling of this situation. Marten was blatantly and obviously not responding correctly to a verbal dissuasion of his amorous efforts, and the physical response was justified. The only modifier I can see is the level of physical response, which we do not see. The panels flow equally for a push vs. a punch vs. a strike vs. The Five Fingers of Death.
Has Faye been studying a martial arts style? Has Jeph? That is a very intriguing stance she has there..
Also, Jeph's art on Faye is zeroing in on one of my ex's, and it's messing with my HEEEEEEEEEADDDDDDDDDD.
:psyduck:
--- Quote from: Some First Poster ---Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye.
--- End quote ---
Go for a re-read, watch the hands. Panel two, Marten's hands are clearly visible and they are not grabbing Faye. He may be leaning, but he is not attempting to impose physical control on her.
Panel Three, Marten's left hand has ahold of Faye's shoulder, and his right hand is unaccounted for - conceivably grasping her elbow or forearm, or her left hand.
Control the hand - control the person. Marten, at least at a subconscious level, is attempting to enforce his will upon Faye physically.
OH HAI VOICE OF EXPERIENCE.
GeoffTheLlama:
--- Quote from: ta-kun_1986 on 15 Dec 2010, 07:50 ---Ok another newbie here. Plz forgive lol.
After reading all this sexual assault and groping business I had to go back and reread the comic to make sure I didn't miss anything. All I see is Marten saying things that are inappropriate. Yes he's making an unwanted advance, but he's not really going in for a kiss. Heck he's farther away physically than the panel before when he's leaning on Faye. Now you could argue that with the angle of his arm he might be going in for a grope, but that'd be speculation as it's out of frame. I'd personally like to give him a little credit. I feel like people are being a bit harsh with their wording. Yes he's being wildly inappropriate, but based on whats shown I'd hardly say he's sexually assaulting Faye. Assault implies violence and the only violence I see is Faye's.
--- End quote ---
Actually, to me, the position of his arms and the way he's leaning in do imply that he's going for something a bit more, ah, physical, despite the fact that she's pushing him away (which is why their bodies are further apart in that panel). The intent is certainly there, based on what he's saying. Of course, it's a webcomic and YMMV - I suppose we won't know for sure unless something's said outright.
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