Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Delator:
OK, I've had some time to digest this strip a little, so I'll just make a couple of points.
...not going to go back through however many pages to remember who said what.
Someone said the cast of QC might move through and past this far easier than we're spazzing out discussing it. I think that's probably what will happen. I hope so anyways...
Regarding Faye's use of violence; I was about to jump down her throat for hitting Cosette with a magazine, so you're not likely to find a bigger critic of her violent tendencies than me. In this instance, however, I feel she was completely justified.
That said, I agree with what someone else said - panel 3 could be read as some sort of drunken joke, albeit in poor taste.
Look at panel 1...that's the "happiest" we've seen Marten since the Porn Argument started, and his best friend just arrived. His response to her comment seems to call back to the witty drunken banter Faye and Marten shared pre #500...
...and then she jumps down his throat about his alcohol use. Talk about a buzz-kill. Yeah, it's not healthy, but fuck...he's a grown man who just got dumped. If he can't get hammered now, then when??
The combination of emotion and alcohol, coupled with basically the complete opposite interaction with Faye from what he was expecting, caused him to then do the exact same thing in return...which was basically be a dick and make a pass.
Do I think he was making some bad drunken joke? No. Do I think he could have been joking? Maybe...but it's doubtful, as others have pointed out how alcohol gets us to be more "truthful" than we would tend to be.
And none of that's to say that Marten wasn't an asshole in panels 2 and especially 3...he was a complete asshole. If it was a joke, it was a terrible one. There was however, precedent, as another poster noted, for those close to him to be kind of glossing over the crap he's been going through. Marten's not one to dwell on that kinda thing from most people, but Faye's his best friend...the last thing he needed was a lecture.
The worst part is that Faye should have known better than to jump on him...she said it was pot/kettle territory, but jeez, Faye, look how you reacted when people called you on your shit when you were drinking. What did you think was going to happen?
She was expecting The Doormat again. It doesn't excuse Marten's actions...but Faye dun goofed.
...and now we get the fallout.
Does this even reach Dora's ears?? :psyduck:
JackFaerie:
--- Quote from: jk9000 on 15 Dec 2010, 08:59 ---I don't buy that. A drunk dude moving in for a kiss you don't want is licence to shove him off, not punch him hard enough to knock him over and leave him sprawled on the ground with cartoon stars of unconsciousness floating above him.
--- End quote ---
A drunk guy putting his arms around me to forcibly draw me in for a kiss I've made CLEAR I don't want deserves whatever my panic-flight response gives him, whether it be a hard punch or a knee to the nuts. Especially since if we're talking about me and not Faye, I don't think I would have the strength or leverage to shove him off easily. (I'm small. Drunk dudes lean on you and are heavy.)
That said, I don't think Faye used excessive force here. I doubt she jackhammered the guy. He was already drunk and unsteady, I'd buy that he went down from a basic "get away from me!" punch.
I also don't think that, even though imo Marten was definitely verging on sexual assault, this is going to leave Faye traumatized or anything. She's just going to be pissed, but understand the extenuating circumstances. (She may also remain pretty seriously pissed for a bit even understanding the extenuating circumstances.)
Laminator_X:
--- Quote from: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07 ---
--- Quote from: Laminator_X on 15 Dec 2010, 08:45 ---We should be gentle in applying-real world standards to the things that went on in this strip. What Marten did could fit the definition of sexual assault in some states (though more likely a milder variation on the offense). OTOH, if this were real-life Faye could have just killed him there. A concussion on top of a bottle of bourbon could very easily mean you pass out and never wake up.
--- End quote ---
I don't think anyone would think Marten was guilty of any type of sexual assault for bringing his face slightly closer to Faye's and suggesting they should make out. Nobody was forced into anything and Faye clearly stopped that train of thought before it got to the station. She said no really forcefully by shoving or punching him away. She didn't give him a chance to back off; she made sure he wasn't in a position to. And I think even drunk, if she had said no, Marten would have respected THAT line. If he hadn't, that would have brought him into assault territory.
I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends. They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.
It's also not sexual harassment - it's definitely an awkward and unwanted drunken advance, but it lacks the foresight and coercive/persistent nature that I think really defines harassment.
People making unwanted advances can be annoying, but there's a difference between feeling like "Argh, I so don't want to deal with this friend drama, can I just be somewhere else right now" and "Holy crap this huge guy will not let go of me and it's late and this street is deserted" or "If I say no to my boss, will I lose my job?" Can we not trivialize sexual assault by pretending this is anything near that please?
--- End quote ---
It certainly isn't. Since he had his arm around her, there are misdemeanor charges available in a lot of places with names like "molestation" or "lascivious conduct" that could be brought if somebody wanted to push it.
Border Reiver:
--- Quote from: cyro on 15 Dec 2010, 08:16 ---So who's next on the list?
(I'm presuming mods are immune and get pimp-tastic robes for the ceremony.)
--- End quote ---
Not sure, the mods maintain the lists, wait a minute!
Do you hear that?
The sound of a not-quite human step outside the door. The feeling that the angles are no longer quite right?
Crap!
The Duke:
--- Quote from: The Seldom Killer on 15 Dec 2010, 03:28 ---Note to self: worry hats are a useless defence against girly punching.
--- End quote ---
Nothing girly about it.
--- Quote from: Mojo on 15 Dec 2010, 07:21 ---Well, seems to me Dora was actually RIGHT to an extent. Marten is betraying a little flame for Faye here.
--- End quote ---
Nah, I'd say it's a simpler "I'm drunk, she's hot" situation, although I could be wrong.
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