Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
O8h7w:
I read through most of that - weird of me. Well, there was no dick-brooms present in the discussion, and I truly missed them. But sure, they would have added to the length of the discussion as well... it's a two-sided weapon, it is.
And after all, it was a few people who got some of it right (according to me), I'll sum up the pieces:
* Marten wasn't revealing some hidden truth. He said that either sarcastically, or simply to offend Faye. He was certainly angry, and for sure he was way drunk - and she was the only one in the near.
* Faye didn't really react rationally either. It triggered her old habit of punching anyone that gets too near her, be it physically or mentally. Not the long-term thing though, not now. Just a punch, and the matter is settled.
* We don't really know what their hands were doing in panel 3, but it don't really matter anyway.
* We don't really know just how and where Faye punched him. (Stars usually mean unconscious, but judging from Faye's pose, this is immediately after the punch. Although I'm somewhat troubled by the fact that we don't see the sound of Marten hitting the floor in that panel, I think we should...)
--- Quote from: Heliphyneau on 15 Dec 2010, 14:58 ---Alcohol is not truth serum, it's hyperbole juice.
--- End quote ---
I'll add that line to my sig, if that's ok with the author...
Somnus Eternus:
--- Quote from: DJRubberducky on 15 Dec 2010, 15:24 ---(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).
--- End quote ---
Not just fallacy - outright lie.
Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.
I thought the point of judo was to let the other person do the work for you, so really, wouldn't they only be hurting themselves? :angel:
lunakitten:
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 16:27 ---
--- Quote from: DJRubberducky on 15 Dec 2010, 15:24 ---(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood).
--- End quote ---
Not just fallacy - outright lie.
Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.
--- End quote ---
I'm gonna second that, being both a fat girl and a survivor of sexual assault. Please learn how to defend yourself. It might save your life.
And I know there's a lot of discussion about how appropriate Faye's reaction was- but I'll tell you that I see it as very appropriate. Not only would this have pissed her off, it must have HURT. Here is her friend, someone she trusted, and he's treating her just as she's always stated she would not want to nor allow herself to be treated. I can also see her forgiving him, but it's going to be a long time before she really trusts him again, if ever. And it's not like she was the most trusting of people to begin with. I see this leading to a trip to her therapist, at least.
Dr. ROFLPWN:
--- Quote from: TheEvilDog on 15 Dec 2010, 08:36 ---
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 15 Dec 2010, 08:12 ---EvilDog, I'm having trouble following your argument here. In the first paragraph you seem to shout "J'accuse!" at Faye for somehow giving her loyalties over to Dora, and then you opine that Marten desperately needs alone time and to be apart from everyone. This seems somewhat mutually exclusive--he needs hugs, but GO AWAY.
--- End quote ---
My apologies if I wasn't clear. It just seems that Dora seems to be getting a lot of sympathy from the others, while Marten has barely gotten a "How are you feeling?" There is a difference between needing to be left alone and to be given some space. Marten most likely needs to be left alone, and needs to be given some space. But at the same time, his friends should feel concern for Marten, but also know when they aren't helping by being up in his face. Sorry if there was some confusion there.
--- End quote ---
...Well, thank you for the polite response, but I'm left to wonder if you read the rest of my post? :psyduck: It was meant to call to fallacies in the argument you're making as much as it was to ask for clarity, or in other words what you want is to see people worrying about Marten but not interacting with him. Which seems...odd, to me.
--- Quote from: TheEvilDog on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07 ---But like I've said, neither Hanners, Tai or Sven really know what Marten is going through, they've said nice things, but they haven't been comforting.
--- End quote ---
What's even more odd is that you demand it be a certain kind of concern; if it's an inappropriate sort of concern, they are going about it wrong? :psyduck:
--- Quote from: TheEvilDog on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07 ---
Hanners gave Marten his worry hat back but still treated him like a child, admittedly, because of they way Marten explained about how the worry hat worked, and Hanners has slept on that couch on at least two occasions, sitting on it is alright after a scalding shower. Tai just thinks that Marten is missing free coffee and baked goods, and even insulted him before giving him a hug (which is negated but the bad attempt at a nipple joke). Sven? Well, Sven acted like Sven. Veronica invited herself even despite Marten's protests.
--- End quote ---
Let's deal with this case-by-case:
-Hanners is not treating Marten like a child. She is being worried and fussy over her good friend who's helped her with her anxieties. Hannelore, out of anyone, is the most upset and the most honest about her feelings, out of the whole circle--it's just circumstance that dictated she be around Dora rather than Marten when she was bawling her eyes out because both of them were sad. And her worry about his alcohol-medicating was pretty clearly justified. If one of my friends got a fifth of Hobo and declared his intent to drown his sorrows, I would probably say something along the lines of "that's not a good idea" too.
-Tai gave him a hug and honest comfort when his psyche cracked a little, and other than that, she's not a good enough friend to do much more. I mean, she tried to help him see the lighter side of his bitching, but he wanted to sink himself deeper into Bitter Jerkass Pond, and then lashed out at her in a dickish manner, and he still got a hug.
-Veronica is his Mom, for fuck's sake. I...I don't know what else to stay about that. Of course she's coming out, if only to bring him cookies, hug him tight, and tell him that that girl wasn't good enough for her boy anyhow, it's her loss, there there there. If you have a mother with whom relations are not completely dysfunctional, this should be familiar.
-Sven is....is Sven. Blood's thicker than water, and that he reached out at all made me think well of the guy, because it's hard to be nice to the dude that's making your sister cry.
--- Quote from: TheEvilDog on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07 ---As for Faye, so ok, she cut her evening with Angus short, but the fact remains that she still spent enough of the evening with him for some heavy petting (enough to lose her bra anyway). Look at when Sven slept with Gina Riversmith. Marten went home and comforted Faye, put an arm around her. Now that Dora and Marten have broken up, Faye has threatened violence, then again, there probably isn't a day where the resident southern belle hasn't threatened someone with violence. But she never asked if he was ok. As far as I can see, no one has asked Marten "If he is alright". It isn't much, but those four words can do more for someone than what the others have done.
--- End quote ---
This is, as I have said over and over, Faye. She knows he's not all right. That's the reason she wanted to murder Dora--did you think that was to satisfy her sense of honor? No. She knows that he's hurting, but he essentially has told her, like he's told everyone else, that he'll be fine, he can deal with this on his own by moping and sighing and being a general dickface. I think she always intended to come home and give the stupid boy a hug and let him cry, but what has he done? He drank an entire bottle of alcohol, which--and I will wield this particular dickbroom with wild gesticulations and frothing rage until people get it--does not make you truthful, it is a brain poison, it makes you STUPID. And then he acted stupidly and like a fucking jackass towards the one person currently in NoHo who deserves his trust and his absolute honesty.
The problem is not with his friends, the problem is that Marten is not dealing in a healthy manner. If Jeph does not intend to go deeper into Misery Town, I am sure he will get back on his feet, but unfortunately, at the moment he is inviting life to dump on him.
This goes for everyone else on the "poor Marten, give him a break" train.
....
Not even going to touch the argument about the definition of sexual assault, and as for this umpteenth "FAYE IS SO VIOLENT OMG" train of thought, please go TVTropes the definition of "tsundere", recognize the violence is absolutely positively overstated for comedy, and recite the MST3K mantra about a billion times.
cuzsis:
--- Quote from: DJRubberducky on 15 Dec 2010, 15:15 ---
--- Quote from: cuzsis on 15 Dec 2010, 11:40 --- He didn't do it to get a free pass.
But he is wondering why after all his work at being a good friend and a good boyfriend, things are working out for everyone, but him.
And if you've never been in that place in life (smile and the world kicks you in the teeth) I can only tell you he's doing what any rational human would.
--- End quote ---
And Faye of all people should understand that feeling.
I suspect this will blow over fairly quickly, though I must confess I will squeal delightedly if she also calls back to the moment I referenced.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that's why her decking him *this* time (especially that hard) rubbed me wrong. Not horrifically or anything, just shouldn't have done it is all.
Actually...hee hee, I could see Marten calling back to that moment later when Faye's getting him ice for his shiner/hangover. :wink:
I'm definitely ready to see more sass, snark and humor. It's been a bit down here for a while. :psyduck:
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