Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Yellowstone:
--- Quote from: lunakitten on 15 Dec 2010, 19:09 --- He grabbed (or made a grab for) her. That's not OK, and she did what she felt she needed to do (or reacted instinctually to threat, but I can't blame her for it). I don't like violence myself, but I can empathise with the reation.
--- End quote ---
He didn't put his arm around her to make out with her, he put it around her so he wouldn't collapse into a puddle on the floor whilst talking to her. Ill-advised makeout request came later. Of course, the physical proximity made his request that much more threatening, leading to the violence - but I still think that a strategic step to the left (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=873) would have worked just as well.
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 19:16 ---
Okay, except that 1.) Marten pushed Faye away, insisting he'd be fine and that he'd prefer to be alone, and 2.) Faye is not his mother. Her life isn't going to come to a screeching halt because her best friend's love life imploded. She's not going to hover over him like a mother hen after he asked for space and then have him resent her for it.
In other words, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's fair to pick on Faye for allowing her life to go on despite her adult friend's personal problems, particularly since she's given every indication that she intends to be there for him as much as he needs her.
--- End quote ---
While I'll agree that Faye is in no way required to help Marten out, your claim that "Marten pushed Faye away" is simply incorrect. He went to be alone in his room immediately following the breakup, and he asked her not to hold a grudge against Dora. I don't see where he indicated that he wanted Faye to let him drink his sorrows (and pretty much everything else) away by himself. Did Faye have the right to prioritize her interests (making out with Angus) over helping out Marten? Of course. Was it ultimately the best choice for her to make? I really don't think so.
Akima:
--- Quote from: snubnose on 15 Dec 2010, 04:59 ---Hitting a drunk dude who can barely stand, let alone defend himself ? Thats like hitting a blind person. Or a cripple. Or a child.
--- End quote ---
Drunkenness is not an excuse or a free pass, no matter how often Rugby League players and other louts use it in defence of their actions in court in Australia. Unlike the blindness or disablement you apparently regard as comparable conditions, drunkenness is a choice. People who pour alcohol down their own throats until they lose control of themselves are, in my opinion at least, wholly responsible for what they do while drunk. Drunk guys can be very scary to be around, and are potentially extremely dangerous. I utterly reject the very widespread idea that they are somehow entitled to indulgent treatment.
--- Quote from: ErrantCanadian on 15 Dec 2010, 09:07 ---I've been assaulted and I've been a recipient of unwanted advances from drunk friends. They're different situations completely, and the drunk friend clumsily hitting on you is not a bad person.
--- End quote ---
I would say that they are different only in degree, not in what they are. The drunk guy who thinks he's got a right of feel you up, even after you say no, and the full-on rapist, both are saying "what I want is important and I'm entitled to have it, your feelings don't count". That makes both of them bad people (though we are all bad people to some extent IMHO). The drunk is very much less bad than the rapist, but in the morning, I would still re-evaluate whether I still wanted to be their friend. A lot, for me, would depend on whether they took responsibility for their actions, or tried to cop out with the "I was drunk" excuse.
Razgriz:
I really feel that a lot of people in this topic are equating 'hitting on a girl' with 'rapist'. As has been pointed out, Marten was leaning on Faye originally so he wouldn't fall down, and just sort of stayed there through the rest of what he said. I refuse to believe A) that he would go for a grab on Faye, it's an awkwardly drawn angle and B) if he did, that Jeph would make it in any way debatable. With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment. That's a drunk dude being drunk. If that was sexual assault/harassment, what Dora did to Marten when she first kissed him was sexual assault/harassment because she forced it on him as a surprise. Men would never be allowed to say anything in your world.
ChibiSoma:
I think I'm starting to like New Marten. He still got his drunk ass knocked out, but he's venting finally. Bet that one was building up for a loooooong god damn time. Totally all true. Faye spilled her guts and then started making out with every boy that wasn't Marten or Steve. THAT IS A DICK MOVE! You cannot claim it isn't. Eat an umbrella stand's worth of dickbrooms, it is a dick move.
Marten needs to stay like this after he sobers up. By god, the fury that'll come if he and Dora just wind up together after a few simple therapy sessions, though. He needs to be more open, he needs to be honest, and he needs to be single for awhile.
Armadillo:
Dear Internet,
A few years ago, a friend of mine went through a drawn-out situation at his work that mirrored the situation we see here with Marten and Faye, at least in how the characters are viewed by people on the outside of a given situation. It has nothing to do with drinking or sex though, so it's not quite as fun, but bear with me anyway. There's a point on the other side of this.
So my friend was working as a security guard at a fairly major corporate headquarters as a college job. He's the kind of guy who you'd trust with anything in your life: watching your house while you're on vacation, getting your mail, watching your kids, driving you to the hospital as your aorta tears, and so on. He's the most trustworthy, responsible person I've ever known. Anyways, he was on time to his job without fail, always in full, perfectly cleaned and ironed uniform, ready to go, and never got so much as a "Very Good" on a performance review. The person who would relieve him at midnight, however, was a walking, talking, 175-pound sack of worthless shit. He'd ROUTINELY be 1-2 hours late for his shift with no warning call, would often show up out of uniform (one time he came in wearing his shirt that had a huge ketchup stain on it, sweatpants, and ONE FLIP-FLOP.) I swear to God I'm not making any of this up.
It took this stumblefuck mess of a man being FOUR HOURS LATE to his job on multiple occasions before the bosses gave him so much as a verbal warning, and then after that, no follow-up whatsoever. In contrast, my friend got caught in traffic ONE TIME, resulting in him being a whopping fifteen minutes late. For this transgression, he was called into a meeting and threatened with termination, even though it was his first incident and he called ahead to give fair warning. The reasoning given for the much harsher reaction was that "the 4-12 shift is more important than the 12-8 shift, because you deal directly with the client and your relief doesn't."
So, to sum up:
1) Punctual, professional, excellent worker is fifteen minutes late one time = job threatened.
2) A completely unprofessional, chronically late, irresponsible jackass is late almost every night = nothing but a "talking-to."
Here's how this relates to the current story: Marten represents my friend: kind, good to the core, never steps on anyone's toes, helps those in need, and so on. He crosses the line ONCE and others come down on him with the force of God for his transgression. There is to be no forgiveness, and any metaphorical (or literal) kick to the teeth is "justified." His colleague is represented by the remainder of the cast: they're all completely messed up in one way or another, and yet nobody gets too upset when they do something wrong, despite it being a common occurrence. It's brushed off as, "well, that's Faye" or, "well, they're getting better at controlling their rage" or something like that.
Why is that? Why do the "good guys" get shit on so much harder when they screw up, no matter how rarely it happens?
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