Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Razgriz:
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:18 ---ETA:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 20:00 --- With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
--- End quote ---
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
Somnus Eternus:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:43 ---
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:18 ---ETA:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 20:00 --- With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
--- End quote ---
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said. Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!
ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment. Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no? That is. And it's STILL not rape.
Razgriz:
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:45 ---
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:43 ---
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:18 ---ETA:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 20:00 --- With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
--- End quote ---
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said. Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!
ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment. Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no? That is. And it's STILL not rape.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes. My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess. And reread the comic. Faye never says no to Martens advance. She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out. I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.
Somnus Eternus:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:48 ---
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:45 ---
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 21:43 ---
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 15 Dec 2010, 21:18 ---ETA:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 20:00 --- With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Yes, that is, in fact, sexual harassment. It's probably one of the best examples of sexual harassment you could have given.
--- End quote ---
Gotcha. A guy who tells a girl and says 'lets make out' deserves to be beaten and then arrested. A dude who has had a crush on a girl for a long time and is alone with her, if he leans in for a kiss, she should scream 'RAPE' and call the police. If a guy says 'aw, come on' to a girl, he's a criminal who should be beaten because there's no telling how far he might go! Extenuating circumstances and past experiences with the person be damned, Marten is basically a rapist now.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure that's absolutely nothing like what I said. Sexual harassment =/= rape, dude, and I don't recall saying anything about Marten being arrested, because that would be asinine. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though!
ETA: Coming on to a girl isn't automatically sexual harassment. Pushing the issue after she's clearly said no? That is. And it's STILL not rape.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, sexual harassment is a crime so I sort of assumed you'd prefer it be dealt with similarly to other crimes. My fault that you used the wrong term for it, I guess. And reread the comic. Faye never says no to Martens advance. She says 'you're being a jerk', he says 'we should make out' and then she punches him out. I think you imagined the intervening panels where Faye says 'I don't want to make out' and then Marten forces himself on her, because those aren't there.
--- End quote ---
Really? Because "You're being a jerk" totally screams "Hey let's get to hot makeouts". She's also told him no in the past and is currently dating someone. The word "no" doesn't always have to be used for it to be apparent.
I also didn't say he was forcing himself on her; I said he was being a pushy douche. (Actually, I don't think I used the word douche, but I definitely said pushy.) She's physically pushing him away from her and he's STILL asking for something she's made pretty clear both in the past and from her current behavior that she's not interested in. That? That's harassment. He's her friend and I'm sure she'll take the drunkenness into consideration in the morning, but it's still harassment. I'm sorry if this is a difficult concept for you or if for some reason you're taking this personally, but it is what it is. Marten was acting like an entitled, pushy dickwad and, by the time Faye decked him, had started harassing her. It might have been mild to you, but you really can't call it anything but harassment.
Akima:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 20:00 ---I really feel that a lot of people in this topic are equating 'hitting on a girl' with 'rapist'. As has been pointed out, Marten was leaning on Faye originally so he wouldn't fall down, and just sort of stayed there through the rest of what he said. I refuse to believe A) that he would go for a grab on Faye, it's an awkwardly drawn angle and B) if he did, that Jeph would make it in any way debatable. With that in mind, it's pretty much 'I helped you out, now make out with me'. That isn't sexual assault/harassment. That's a drunk dude being drunk. If that was sexual assault/harassment, what Dora did to Marten when she first kissed him was sexual assault/harassment because she forced it on him as a surprise. Men would never be allowed to say anything in your world.
--- End quote ---
There is a difference between "hitting on" a girl, and subjecting her to a drunken pawing, even after she's made it clear that it's not welcome. Drunkenness does not give anyone a license to be a dick, or to escape responsibility for their words and actions. Even if Marten was only leaning on Faye for support in Panel 2, he was not in the same position in Panel 3. Faye was pushing him away, and he was no longer leaning any weight on her. A guy doesn't have to go for a "grab" to step over the line, just not stop when he's asked to, and Faye's push away, facial expression, and "you're being a dick" amount to a clear Red Light.
I don't demand that a guy "not say anything" in my world, as you put it, but I do insist that he stop "hitting on" me when I make it clear that his approach is unwelcome.
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