Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
Razgriz:
I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
mira:
--- Quote from: adrialexi on 15 Dec 2010, 11:19 ---If he did any of those things with the expectation of some sort of "return on investment" pass to get Faye-booty, then he isn't a very good friend. Friends help each other because they want to help each other, not because there is some quid pro quo situation. Being nice to someone when they are depressed or hurting is not a free pass into their pants and the perception that it somehow should be is why some guys/girls get mean in this kind of situation (not necessarily Marten).
--- End quote ---
I don't mean to imply he should expect Faye to give him sex- or any other kind of "return on investment". I don't really think he's like that and I wouldn't much like him if he were. I mean instead to point out that the relationships he's in seem fairly one sided. Martin soothes and listens but no one seems to think Martin ever needs it reciprocated. It's fair enough to point out that he owns not fessing up to his feelings. He owns this for the most part and he definitely owns his bad behavior as of this comic.
But I think when the morning comes she should give him some grace. She should talk to him about why the heck he said those things. Maybe explaining why the hell she rejected him only to start promptly banging someone else is in order-if that's something Martin has been carrying around. In all this talking about her feelings, I don't recall seeing her really expressing much interest in what he's been feeling-which is obviously like someone who needs to understand and has been hurt.
Armadillo:
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 22:15 ---I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
--- End quote ---
Seconded. Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal. I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing. There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned. Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so. As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes. However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise. My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?
AshiHalfangel:
I'm sorry, I might've not made myself clear on my earlier post. I didn't mean to state that Marten had groped Faye because of the fact that Marten's other hand wasn't seen. For all we know, he's picking his ass. I don't know..who knows unless it's stated. But I'm not going to say that it's sexual harrassment. He's drunk...he's heart broken. That doesn't excuse his behavior and while it's very uncharacteristic to act that way, I highly doubt that he would try to force himself on her.
Now if Marten had still gone after her after she had punched him out then I would classify that as harrassment. I know that there is such a thing as verbal sexual harrassment in example at the working field. That's wrong and should a person ever come across such a situation, get help...or a Faye punch could work as well...but not recommended if you want your job..but still effective I'm sure. Marten in my opinion is just in a drunken stupor and feeling sorry for himself and found Faye as the target since it seems that he has a bit of a grudge that he had hidden from her. I think once Faye cools down and Marten regains consciousness and sobers up that a heart to heart is in motion.
Overkillengine:
--- Quote from: Armadillo on 15 Dec 2010, 22:28 ---
--- Quote from: Razgriz on 15 Dec 2010, 22:15 ---I don't think I can win on the harassment debate, and in the interest of not making the mods ban me/everyone I'll just let that one slide with a 'I respectfully disagree'. I honestly don't have enough experience in this field to argue it, but in my books what he did was a jerk move but in no way illegal. and he was disproportionally punished for it.
--- End quote ---
Seconded. Also, I'm old enough to have been in the workforce (teenage shit jobs) when sexual harassment became a big deal. I remember from those lovely training videos that the standard for sexual harassment was for the harassee to VERY CLEARLY say "no," and then the harasser ignores that and continues on with whatever they were doing. There was nothing about "implied no" or "unwanted advances without letting the person know they're unwanted" situations; that came later, and really muddied the waters as far as I'm concerned. Separating this from the story line, people can't read minds, and therefore are incapable of knowing whether or not an advance is unwanted unless told so. As a male, I've known a few of the famous "nice guys" myself, and they're assholes. However, I've misread situations before and gone in for a kiss on a girl I thought was interested but soon discovered otherwise. My intentions were pure, so am I a sexual harasser?
--- End quote ---
By the legal definition, yes.
Your intent/motives don't count for shit. Even a 3rd party that doesn't like what they saw can report you. Even if the woman that was the target of your attentions actually liked what you were doing. As long as someone there wasn't happy, whether your intent was malicious or not, you are guilty.
Edit for clarity: And no, I've never been accused or convicted of sexual harassment, so you can't just pass this off as sour grapes. It's just literally how the laws are set up.
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