Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT January 3-7, 2011 (1831-1835)
Kugai:
Actually, when you think about it, this is worse punishment for Dora than if Veronica had walked in and pulled out the whips and chains.
She was expecting Martens mom to crucify her, but instead she gets . . . . this, I think she would prefer being strung up and whipped by Veronica than this.
DSL:
One vote here for "Marten's mom knows, more or less, what she's doing."
My first read on the character in this situation was a sort of endearing klutziness in matters not involving domination, as evidenced by the improvised insult at the end of No. 1833. Hey, tryin' to make Dora happy, right?
Then it occurred to me Ms. V. might (instinctively) know that what Martin and Dora (think they) want right now is not what they need.
Marten wants to the the pitied Noble Victim. A couple of his friends (I like Tai) know that's not what he needs.
Dora wants "reassurance" that This Is All Her Fault -- because that way she still gets to be in control (and control is a big thing with her, because if we can take Sven at face value after the Underpants Incident, our benighted barista was never really in control of a relationship until after ambushing Marten on the rooftop).
Ms. V. understands -- Ain't Gonna Get What You Want. Whether this proceeds from Dom or Mom, I think the lady's on to something.
Perhaps if I was still in my 20s and just coming off what I thought at the time was a Tale of Tragic Love, I might be part of the pack after Dora with pitchforks and torches. But age lends --- well, at least the fatigue that simulates wisdom. I like Veronica.
And yes, I too would like to see more of Veronica's outfit. Though I would also consider it a good joke on us, including myself, for Jeph to "pull back the camera" and reveal the good Ms. V. is wearing leg warmers and pack-boots hastily purchased on the way from the airport.
There does need to be a 'splosion, though. I vote for a Hannerhulk moment, preferably after the restaurant gang, including Marten, mooches into the caffienery and misinterprets everything. Hannerhulk moments tend to be oddly ... constructive, even if the poor kid doesn't remember them afterwards.
pwhodges:
--- Quote from: davidv on 05 Jan 2011, 10:12 ---Dora is probably in hell right now.
--- End quote ---
But a friendly, considerate hell.
maddness:
--- Quote from: GeoffTheLlama on 05 Jan 2011, 10:17 ---
--- Quote from: Black Sword on 05 Jan 2011, 09:03 ---Y'all can thank themacnut for me dropping out of lurker status and actually posting. I don't feel sorry for Dora, and it's actually fairly aggravating that she's getting all of this undeserved support. My ex ruined a perfectly good relationship based on similarly flimsy reasoning and insecurities, and it pissed me off just as much back then that she was reassured and coddled by our social circle while I got the boot. I may be tough, but kicking me when I'm down provokes me to break you, not "get over it."
Eventually, it resulted in our social circle splitting into halves in a very messy, extended breakdown. I understand a writer's desire and vulnerability through their characters, but Dora did something that shouldn't be minimized so...trivially.
--- End quote ---
Yes, how dare she break up with Marten rather than continuing a relationship that she felt she couldn't be secure in and she couldn't see through to the long-term without the fighting constantly happening. How dare she break up with Marten rather than making him go through her recovery with her, which could have resulted in a break-up anyway. How dare she spare him the stress. How dare she, that selfish bitch.
Am I getting the tone right?
--- End quote ---
Yes, what an angel she is to break up with a guy she lives with and spare him the hardship of working through a problem in their relationship like adults do.
Okay, seriously, I don't think breaking up with Marten makes Dora an evil bitch, but can we not slap a halo on her either? She didn't break up with Marten to spare him stress, she broke up with him because she wanted to break the cycle where she drove herself crazy because of her issues, blew up at Marten and then felt like crap over it. That's not a bad thing, it was probably the right thing given her circumstances, but it's not a selfless motivation either. The thing is, she never tried to get help, not before embarking on a relationship after the last guy who messed her up emotionally, not after the first blow up or any time thereafter when she realized she was letting her past relationship traumas affect her relationship with Marten and not before going to the extreme of ending a relationship with someone she apparently cared enough about to move in with. If she chooses not to work through issues she knows are causing negative affects in her life, then I don't see why people should have to feel sorry for her or be made out to be demonizing her.
Personally, I do feel bad for her because when a relationship that you were emotionally invested in is over you hurt, even if you were the one to end it. Dora is expecting people to be angry and treat her badly over the break up because she is angry with herself over the break up, feels she's ruined something good because she can't get past her trust issues, and is probably tearing herself up inside. A part of her hates what she's done while another part of her is sure she did the right thing for both herself and Marten. Having someone else heap the abuse on her would giver her the treatment she thinks she deserves right now, but it would also help her externalize it, maybe give her something tangible to rally herself against. It's easier to defend yourself from others than the insidious voices in your head. I don't feel sorry for her, because it was her choice to end it rather than try to get help and work on the relationship, but I do feel bad for her and what she's going through right now.
Boomslang:
--- Quote from: DSL on 05 Jan 2011, 12:02 ---Marten wants to the the pitied Noble Victim. A couple of his friends (I like Tai) know that's not what he needs.
--- End quote ---
I would disagree that's what Marten wants, but it's probably what most of the cast thinks he wants.
What Marten almost certainly wants and needs right now is to feel in control of his life and destiny, and he's not getting any help there from anyone. What Dora hammered home, intentionally or not, is that what Marten wanted didn't matter. Dora made it clear that nothing Marten could have ever done would have changed that. What is his mom doing, this entire trip? Doing precisely what she knows Marten doesn't want her to do. Repeatedly, and without real cause.
At some point, Marten might just start agreeing with them that what he wants doesn't matter. And that's not a place you want to be in.
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