Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Assumptions and Homophobia
Odin:
Guys, guys, what about all the good things Hitler did? :mrgreen:
Carl-E:
Stabilizing the currency... Volkswagens...
Can't think of much else, but I think that's more of an example of an evil person doing a few good things, rather than a "good person" doing a few evil things.
Which, as I wake up and think more about it, is probably your point. Everyone has some good, some bad, and it's proportionally different. And we all need to realize that, even as "good people", that some of our opinions (and even deeply held beliefs) can actually be pretty fucking bad!
OK, now it makes more sense, and I don't need to throw out Godwin's law.
dps:
If someone makes an incorrect assumption about me, it doesn't really offend me for the most part. If someone acts on that assumption, that's a different matter. If I found out that someone who I had recently met thought I was gay, I would probably find it a bit amusing, but if I found out that they had been going around telling everyone else that I was gay, I'd be pissed. It wouldn't have to be anything about sexuality; other incorrect assumptions would have the same effect.
BTW, the OP seems to suggest that Steve threw his drink in Padma's face. That doesn't seem to be the case--he was surprised, and jerked, which sloshed the drink around in his glass, but he doesn't appear to have gotten any on her or anyone else. It's not even clear if any of it actually got spilled.
cabbagehut:
--- Quote from: Akima on 23 Feb 2011, 02:58 ---It doesn't seem to me that the messages in these two quotes are the same at all.
Fenris' point, it seems to me, is that people who are prejudiced against homosexuality self-identify as "good people", and so believe that since homophobia is "bad", they as "good people" cannot possibly be homophobic, because nothing that "good people" do can be bad. He goes on to say that recognising ones own prejudice, and making the effort to change is what stops one being a bad person, not changing the definition of bad behaviour to exclude your own.
Cabbagehut's line, by contrast, seems to be that you can be a "good person" while doing bad things, because your wonderful other qualities somehow cancel out the bad. And people are complex.
I am much more in sympathy with Fenris' view, but a crucial problem I believe is that people self-identify as "good people" in the first place, apparently ignoring their actual thoughts, words, and actions.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry, I do agree with Fenris; I apparently wasn't very clear about what I meant.
What I meant was that sometimes, when you call someone on homophobia (or racism, or other -isms, etc.), they cite all the good things about themselves or that person in order to invalidate the accusation, and to "prove" that they can't be this bad thing you've said - they're a good person, and homophobia/racism/etc. is only practiced by bad people. Generally, they think of violence or hateful bigotry, like lynching or slurs. But that's not the only way it's practiced, you know? It's calling someone on their privilege (often, not always), and them getting defensive. But if we change the view, like Fenris suggested, from homophobe = entirely bad person into homophobia = bad beliefs that can change, it makes it easier for people to accept criticism of their own behavior.
My main point was that one bad thing doesn't invalidate good things, and a bunch of good things doesn't invalidate the bad ones, either. That's what I was trying to get at by saying that people are complex. Just because I've done X number of good things doesn't give me a pass on homophobia or bigotry. But just because someone's called me on my homophobia doesn't mean I've never done anything of value. Instead, it's what Fenris has said - changing your behavior is the key, not changing the definition of your behavior.
What I'm writing is awfully clumsy, and I'm really sorry about that. I can't seem to quite put my finger on what I'm trying to actually communicate.
Blood-Tree:
--- Quote from: cabbagehut on 23 Feb 2011, 11:32 ---What I'm writing is awfully clumsy, and I'm really sorry about that. I can't seem to quite put my finger on what I'm trying to actually communicate.
--- End quote ---
Only a Sith deals in absolutes..?
It occurs to me that homophobia (i.e. a fear or aversion to homosexuality), and actively discriminating against homosexuals, are subtly different things.
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