Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Firefly and/or Joss Whedon
hannahsaurusrex:
I personally really enjoy Firefly, and I see the Chinese elements to be like Yiddish in Jewish communities. Everyone knows it, can kinda read it, but it's not quite Hebrew and not quite Russian. We call our grandmas bubbes and the rest of you goyim.
It's evolved past what it is today and been butchered for centuries.
The Firefly universe has the Chinese culture in Ebonics and there's been so many generations to create no pure Asians anymore. Seeing a Ginger is super rare, he's a mutant.
I think you're forgetting when this was made, it was when FRIENDS was still winning Emmys. The Asian actors of the time were kinda limited to Lucy Liu and Jackie Chan in hollywood. This was before Sandra Oh moved from Canada, before Masi Oka quit visual effects, before Lost, Heroes, and the end of Will and Grace. Even though there are millions of Asian actors in Asia, but in 2001 when they were casting, there's only 12 percent of Los Angelese population that identified as Asian. That's not Chinese though, that's Philipino, Japanese Korean, Loatian, Vietnamese among others. Now, considering how many people want their child to be actors, I'd say that reduces that number to single digit percentiles. You're looking for Chinese (preferred) actors in 2002 for a highly performance driven show?
I'm willing to live with Ben Kingsley as Gandhi, Yul Brenner as the King of Siam, and Firefly having the Asian traits be genetically recessive over centuries for good performances.
brew:
--- Quote from: tuathal on 08 Mar 2011, 13:50 ---As a final and somewhat less trollish response to this thread:
You're blowing this way out of proportion, it's not as if they represented Chinese culture as the bucktoothed goofball kind, or worse, like the Japanese in world war II, as "The yellow peril." I think we all know there was no racist/orientalist intent in firefly. So, while Akima's point is valid in one sense, is Firefly teaching us that the Chinese are of no consequence whatsoever? No, it's telling us that China, alongside America end up being the most important cultural influence in the world and beyond it. Surely that is empowering (I hate that word, but I'll use it here anyway) to Chinese people, even if, because of oversights, they don't appear in speaking roles all that often.
--- End quote ---
You're in Belgium; have you ever even met a Chinese person before?
AlmostLiterally:
--- Quote from: tuathal on 08 Mar 2011, 13:50 ---As a final and somewhat less trollish response to this thread:
You're blowing this way out of proportion, it's not as if they represented Chinese culture as the bucktoothed goofball kind, or worse, like the Japanese in world war II, as "The yellow peril." I think we all know there was no racist/orientalist intent in firefly. So, while Akima's point is valid in one sense, is Firefly teaching us that the Chinese are of no consequence whatsoever? No, it's telling us that China, alongside America end up being the most important cultural influence in the world and beyond it. Surely that is empowering (I hate that word, but I'll use it here anyway) to Chinese people, even if, because of oversights, they don't appear in speaking roles all that often.
--- End quote ---
I agree. China and America are two of the strongest nations in the world. In the Firefly 'Verse, they are the ones who had the biggest influence on the Alliance, and without the strong border lines of Earth, cultures became more mixed on the new plants, hence both Chinese and English being common languages.
I don't see the parallel between Reavers and Native Americans. I always thought of Reavers as space zombies. Mindless and savage. The Native Americans were not mindless or savage. So, I don't see it.
As for Confederate vs. Union...yeah, I do see that, but only in that attitudes and advantages of each side, not what they were fighting for. While there are similarities, the Independents are not Confederates, and the Alliance is not the Union.
To the pseudofeminism thing...well, I'm not going to look at Buffy, because I don't watch it. I'm not defending Whedon, I'm defending Firefly. I don't really see it. The article someone posted a on the first page argues that strong female characters who end up as Damsels in Distress anyway are bad characters. But that is not how Firefly is. I'd say all of the characters, minus Simon and Kaylee, are about equally tough (except for River). The women are not unrealistically strong or powerful (Again...River), nor do they end up as damsels in distress. Zoe is experienced from being a soldier, she ends up being a large part of fighting off the Reavers. Inara can handle herself with a sword or a crossbow because of Companion training. River, once again, is freaking River. Her strengths come with huge downsides.
Kaylee is...well, she's the one that gets slapped to get a reaction. But so is Simon on occasion.
I think a lot of the attacks on Firefly are because people who would have been simply neutral to the show get tired of hearing constant praise. And I can understand that, if that is the case. In all honesty, I don't think Firefly is THE BEST THING EVER. One or two of the episodes had some pretty mediocre writing ('Out of Gas' is the one I am thinking of in particular. The writing in it seemed very weak and strung together. But I find the rest of the writing good or fantastic with the exception of the villains in 'Heart of Gold', who I think the writers put too much effort in to making us hate). But the fact that it was canceled only fourteen episodes in makes it stand out a bit more, and makes me feel more defensive of it. And it really is a fantastic show. Entertaining, good acting, interesting concept. And really, it is more fun to be all "OHMAHGOSHBESTEVER" about it than to simply say "Yeah, it's a good show." As long as you aren't insulting others for not liking it or trying to force it on others, I don't see the harm in "fangirling".
Is it cold in here?:
(moderator)Thin ice, people.(/moderator)
Akima:
--- Quote from: tuathal on 08 Mar 2011, 13:18 ---Chinese sets are cool, chinese cursing is cool (And necessary, as pointed out more than a few times) and chinese actors simply are not. I can't stand kung fu movies because of that incontrovertible fact.
--- End quote ---
And this pretty much sums up why I'm suspicious of Firefly fans. On the whole, they seem fully to buy into, and indeed explicitly support, the show's implicit attitude to Chinese people.
--- Quote from: tuathal on 08 Mar 2011, 13:50 ---You're blowing this way out of proportion, it's not as if they represented Chinese culture as the bucktoothed goofball kind, or worse, like the Japanese in world war II, as "The yellow peril." I think we all know there was no racist/orientalist intent in firefly. So, while Akima's point is valid in one sense, is Firefly teaching us that the Chinese are of no consequence whatsoever? No, it's telling us that China, alongside America end up being the most important cultural influence in the world and beyond it. Surely that is empowering (I hate that word, but I'll use it here anyway) to Chinese people, even if, because of oversights, they don't appear in speaking roles all that often.
--- End quote ---
"All that often"? One East Asian actor appears in a minor speaking role in the entire series. I don't know what the intentions of Firefly's creators were. I judge what they put on the screen.
I actually am an ethnic Han, born in China, now living in Australia. I hope you will forgive me if I don't think I need advice on what I should find "empowering" about representations on television of Chinese language, culture and people. I certainly find nothing "empowering" about the attitude that Chinese stuff is cool, but Chinese people are not. That was the attitude of 19th century European collectors of Ming porcelain, Tang bronzes etc. who certainly admired Chinese "stuff" in their Orientalism, but would never have admitted Chinese people into their homes, except perhaps as servants.
--- Quote from: hannahsaurusrex on 08 Mar 2011, 13:30 ---The Firefly universe has the Chinese culture in Ebonics and there's been so many generations to create no pure Asians anymore.
--- End quote ---
The "interbreeding has removed obvious Asians (while mysteriously leaving European and African physiognomies essentially untouched)" argument doesn't hold water. There are plenty of obvious Asian faces on Firefly. As nameless extras doing stereotyped Asian-y things in the background. But Asian characters? Not so much.
--- Quote ---I think you're forgetting when this was made, it was when FRIENDS was still winning Emmys.
--- End quote ---
The Green Hornet, Star Trek, and Hawaii Five-O included Asian actors in their main casts in the 1960s. Since then many TV shows have managed to include Asian actors in their main casts or in character roles. Firefly was launched in 2002. The "there are no Asian actors" excuse is pretty thin. It's a matter of priorities.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version