Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
Firefly and/or Joss Whedon
Carl-E:
--- Quote from: Akima on 08 Mar 2011, 17:33 ---
--- Quote from: hannahsaurusrex on 08 Mar 2011, 13:30 ---The Firefly universe has the Chinese culture in Ebonics and there's been so many generations to create no pure Asians anymore.
--- End quote ---
The "interbreeding has removed obvious Asians (while mysteriously leaving European and African physiognomies essentially untouched)" argument doesn't hold water. There are plenty of obvious Asian faces on Firefly. As nameless extras doing stereotyped Asian-y things in the background. But Asian characters? Not so much.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that statement bothered me, too. Especially since the most notable ethnic asian featuress (coarse straight black hair and epicanthic folds) are dominant genetic traits. They'd be everywhere, not nowhere.
Which is why they're all over Asia!
Odin:
--- Quote from: shiroihikari on 08 Mar 2011, 12:50 ---So...what you're saying is Joss Whedon stole your girlfriend and then ran over your dog. Am I right?
--- End quote ---
No, I'm saying Joss Whedon is a pathetic screen writer and not, in fact, the second coming of Christ that some of his fans on the internet make him out to be.
hannahsaurusrex:
Once again, I bring up my Yiddish theory.
It's in our traditions, in our jewelry, in our nicknames, and we know when to pay respect to somebody. But does it really effect how we live on a daily basis? Not really.
When they say America and China have blended together, I'm really thinking its leaning towards America's melting pot ideals and our eventual apathy for specific details.
As for the Asian dominated traits, hey, I threw it out there because it makes sense when I look at Asian mixes. I've known Brazilian/Koreans, Mexican/Koreans, Chinese/White, Japanese/White, and one or to Blasians, with everyone I personally met, the Asian traits were not as dominant, they were there definitely, but definitely blended. Even less so when one grandparent is Asian. The exceptions being with those with half white/ half Filipino (my nieces included).
In reality, I'm simply trying to ease the tension for you with a made up theory, because I DEEPLY hate it whenever people get touchy about race in media. I understand the frustration, but what then happens is Affirmative Action miscasting. To be perfectly honest, they probably thought Summer Glau was indistinguishable race-wise (yes, I know she's white) that she would be neutral. I bring up Friends was on air because that is what comedy was and what people thought of America. That has got to be the whitest show ever. Firefly had not one, not two, but three well spoken main characters that weren't sassy that had a background that wasn't Western European was impressive at the time. The world of Film takes baby steps towards equality. It has one film every few years that throws racism in our face, and then takes its time easing the bigots into new accepting ways. It's not right, but that's how it works in LA.
FOR GOD SAKES,THAT WAS THE YEAR CHRISTINA AGUILERA WAS IN HER DIRRTY VIDEO AND ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE.
I'm not saying it was right, but I'm not going to throw torches and cry that it was stupid due to the inability to find a suitable Chinese actor. Just like I'm not going to be upset that a Russian played the King of Siam, or wiith Morgan Freeman playing what was supposed to be an Irishman's role because they were all damn good at it.
By the way, I'm actually quite "eh" about Joss Whedon, I'm more of a Bryan Fuller/Tim Minear fangirl.
EDITED FOR CLARITY.
innermoppet:
I'm a huge fan of Joss Whedon's shows. I'm also a brown person. I've always thought he had a problem with race in his shows.
Seven seasons of Buffy. Six seasons of the only people of color being either murdered quickly (goodbye Kendra) or evil from the start (Hello Mr. Trick, Forrest, random vamps and demons). They weren't even cool enough kinds of evil to last more than an episode or three. And I noticed. And I was not amused. By the time they got to season seven with Robyn Wood, the writers were so aware of the problem they thought it would be funny to leave his character in limbo, so we didn't know if he was evil or not until three quarters of the way through the season. Because the assumption was, if the person was black, they were evil or they were gonna die. They were the red-shirts. Also Robyns only love interests were white women (not a huge problem but seriously, he couldn't be attracted to a sistah or an asian or a mexican? Oh waaaait, he couldn't because there weren't any women of color anywhere in the cast).
Also don't get me started on the excellent character Gunn, that he ruined on Angel. Who also only ever dated/hung out with white chicks. Why was the brotha the one who became stupid?
Yeah, it pisses me off. But it pissed me off in the same way that horror movies make me mad, because they cast minorities as cannon fodder. A quick death to rile everyone up and meet their race quotas. It pisses me off the way Avatar pissed me off because I'm tired of movies where white people rescue the poor savages from OTHER WHITE PEOPLE.
The state of race on television and in movies still COMPLETELY SUCKS.
That said, I was endlessly amused by Firefly and I liked Serenity an awful lot. It's Joss's dialogue I love. It's crisp and fast and reminds me of old movies and stage plays where everything was just so snappy.
You can fanwank it any way you like, but there WERE problems with the way race was portrayed on all of his shows. Mostly because there are problems with the way race is usually portrayed on television and in movies.
*That said, isn't it strange how limited our perceptions are? I found myself acutely aware of the problems on Buffy and Angel with regards to the lack of diversity but I really didn't think about the lack of Asians on Firefly which was based in a world where China and US were the dominating/melded cultures. Wow, hello ethnocentrism. I feel like a jerk now.
Carl-E:
Actually, Hannersaurus' post got me to double check, and I was wrong about the epicanthic fold. It appears to be genetically neutral, neither dominant not recessive, randomly showing to a varying degree when one parent has it.
I think what's bothering me about this thread is not about the casting of Firefly, or anything else about the show - hell, like I said before, I've never seen it. What's bothering me is the reaction of the Firefly supporters. Rather than acknowledging a problem with the show and saying, "OK, but it was still really cool for this reason", they choose to defend what appears to be the show's main weakness, a poor casting decision. It's not exactly something that can be fixed at this point. But it shouldn't be rationalized away either, nor should it be defended by calling the people who point it out names, or by claiming that they're calling names (at this juncture, I need to point out that the only people who actually used the terms racism and racist were the defenders of the show, not those who pointed out the problem).
The mere fact that the problem has rationalizations is enough to support the fact that there is a problem, and that even the fans recognize that there's a problem. After all, who needs an explanation for a problem that doesn't exist?
Accept it and move on. Tell us what was good about the show, including the attempts to fuse the cultures. Don't attack people who point out a weakness, that's just being offensively defensive. Instead, tell us about the show's strengths! Give me a reason to spend my precious time watching it. Something a little more cogent than "firefly is the best thing ever".
EDIT: The post that was put up while i was typing is an excellent start. Thank you, innermoppet!
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