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Cosette's Gibbs Slap

"Man, I still can't believe he's not gay!"

Cosette's misinterpretation of "greater than or equal to", forgetting it also has "or equal to"

"Hola, assbutt"

Dora having a successful first therapy session and not realizing it

"We've, ah, run into each other a couple times."

Hanners's logic win

"Great, my self-loathing is the square root of 2"

Marigold's anti-makeover rant

Obligatory (yet irrelevant) waffles option

[pwhodges]

That works both ways

Are you seriously saying that you consider it adult behaviour to rely on your friends being adult enough to indulge your pissing on their feelings?

[Odin]

That works both ways

Are you seriously saying that you consider it adult behaviour to rely on your friends being adult enough to indulge your pissing on their feelings?

Are you intentionally misreading everything that doesn't agree with you?

I'm saying an adult friend is going to move on from past relationships with their exes and it should not ever be a problem for their friends to date one of their exes. If the friend seriously has a problem with their Ex dating one of their friends, they have deeper issues with letting go and all that other nasty stuff that goes along with clingy, creepy people than you can help them with (and as I said earlier, it wouldn't matter if the EX is dating a friend or not, the simple fact that they are bothered by the ex dating anybody is indicative of serious mental problems).

EDIT: To bring it back to the comic: enough time has elapsed where if Marten has a problem with Dora dating anybody it will just illustrate his own need for therapy.

[Elysiana]

Dora and Marten haven't even had any sort of closure yet, have they? And how much time has passed since the breakup?

Odin, I find it funny that you don't think adults should/do consider their friends' feelings when making decisions like that. I think we are more likely to, in fact, because we've grown up and don't just trounce on other people. Teenagers tend to be selfish and not ask for permission; adults are, well, adult enough to talk about it with the party in question first - especially if there has not been closure.

In this case, the breakup happened pretty suddenly and I think both parties were surprised by it. I never got the feeling that Dora had been planning it or brooding over it, she came to more of a sudden realization. Both parties are still a bit shocked and neither has even spoken to the other or really gotten into how they feel other than "It sucks, but I'm getting by."

If there'd been definite closure and both people were obviously comfortable with the decision and seemed happy with the idea of it being permanent, I could understand saying that it's okay for another person to make a move; but not in this case. And with Tai being a friend to both of them and a boss to one... there's a lot of dangerous ground to be tread upon.


Argh, more replies...
You seem to think that adults don't have as many feelings as younger people; where is that coming from? Adults get pissy all the time; just because we know how to hide or handle those feelings better doesn't mean it's not still a dick move. How old are you, out of curiosity?

[Odin]

Dora and Marten haven't even had any sort of closure yet, have they? And how much time has passed since the breakup?

Marten may not have had any closure yet, but it seem Dora has moved on quite nicely (she's been exhibiting the most "normal" behavior out of anyone: she continued on with her life after allowing herself to grieve over the breakup; meanwhile, Marten is changing his entire social circle to avoid having to deal with moving the fuck on).

It has been at least a month since the breakup, QC-time, what with the hair growth and all going on. Considering the relationship itself lasted all of maybe six months QC-time, I think that's pretty easily enough time for people to start moving on with their lives.

Odin, I find it funny that you don't think adults should/do consider their friends' feelings when making decisions like that.

I've said nothing of the sort, but keep strawmanning me if it makes you feel better.

I think we are more likely to, in fact, because we've grown up and don't just trounce on other people. Teenagers tend to be selfish and not ask for permission; adults are, well, adult enough to talk about it with the party in question first - especially if there has not been closure.

If it has been a month since one of your friends broke up with their ex of six months and they are still moping around about it like a sad sack, that friend is the one with problems, not you.

In this case, the breakup happened pretty suddenly and I think both parties were surprised by it. I never got the feeling that Dora had been planning it or brooding over it, she came to more of a sudden realization. Both parties are still a bit shocked and neither has even spoken to the other or really gotten into how they feel other than "It sucks, but I'm getting by."

If there'd been definite closure and both people were obviously comfortable with the decision and seemed happy with the idea of it being permanent, I could understand saying that it's okay for another person to make a move; but not in this case. And with Tai being a friend to both of them and a boss to one... there's a lot of dangerous ground to be tread upon.

Nonsense.

Dora is getting therapy and apparently happily moving on with her life, she is free to date or do whatever she wants and it is literally none of Marten's concern what she does any more.

Argh, more replies...
You seem to think that adults don't have as many feelings as younger people; where is that coming from? Adults get pissy all the time; just because we know how to hide or handle those feelings better doesn't mean it's not still a dick move. How old are you, out of curiosity?

I'm 29 years old, and I think adults are better at handling their own feelings than children. There is a very huge and not-so-subtle difference between what I'm saying and what you think I'm saying, though, so go back and re-read what I actually type instead of being so quick to hit the "Post" button just because you disagree with me.

[Karilyn]

You need therapy if ...

Please don't let this stray into getting personal.

I think I'm handling someone accusing me of having a stick up my ass pretty well, actually.

Wait?  Were you seriously offended by that?  

Please don't take this as offensive, but you might want to consider working on thickening up your skin.  That's a bit uh, little too thin skinned to be healthy, online or offline.  While it was a bit of an insult, it was hardly a personal insult, and it would be ideal for anybody to let it roll off off like water on a duck's back than let it get to them.

[Odin]

You need therapy if ...

Please don't let this stray into getting personal.

I think I'm handling someone accusing me of having a stick up my ass pretty well, actually.

Wait?  Were you seriously offended by that? 

Please don't take this as offensive, but you might want to consider working on thickening up your skin.  That's a bit uh, little too thin skinned to be healthy, online or offline.

Sarcasm, on my internets?! Well, I never!

[QueenoftheSmileys]

I think I understand what Odin is trying to get at here.

It's true, it should not matter who the EX is dating.

It does, however, matter that the FRIEND is dating the ex so soon.

That means, I guess that the Ex can date whoever they damn well please, since the person no longer has any claim on them or their lives.
A friend is a friend though, and SHOULD be considerate to the other friend's feelings. The friend may be viewed as a "vulture" in that sense.

This does not mean that the friend can NEVER date the ex though, a grace period for both parties to move on is simply courtesy.

This comes from personal experience. -_-;

And I beg to differ, adults can often get JUST as pissy as kids. I've seen it myself. xD

[Elysiana]

I can't really hold a decent conversation with someone whose M.O. is anger, so... on to other things

[Near Lurker]

Tai, repeat after me: sloppy seconds.  Happy batter.  Sloppy seconds.  Happy batter.

[Zwiebel]

it may not be the best decision to make my first post this, but I felt the need to just chime in...

1. No, we are not beholden to any of our friends to ask permission to date their exes, and vice versa. However, I would be really upset if one of my good friends just up and decided to date my ex without even talking to me about it. There are a lot of things that go on, and a lot of feelings to be considered. There is no requirement to do so, but if I were thinking about asking the ex of a friend out, I would definitely discuss it with him/her first because they ARE my friend and so their feelings deserve my regard, especially if there was a social group that we were all involved in or if the breakup was particularly acrimonious (in this case it's a bit worse because Dora is having to face issues about herself that she wouldn't have normally and it might lead to an even bigger breakup later, and no one wants the group splintered). Lastly, only a month after? I mean they made the decision to move in together and make some pretty bit progress for both of them relationship-wise. It might still be a bit early to just jump back on the social bandwagon in that case. Being in a rebound is just bad for all involved, although I see that more from Marten than Dora.

2. The bigger issue here that I  see (yeah, there could be drama with Tai/Marten over it, but I think Marten would get over that in time) is the fact that Marten would have no way to avoid it if he DID have issue with it. Taking a break from your social group is one thing- I'm doing that right now- but Marten works with Tai. He has no way to be away from that if it does pose a problem for him. It can be much easier to deal with this kind of thing if you can 'take a break', which Marten seems to have been so far. He's not been hanging out with the COD crowd, and doing his own thing. With Tai and Dora, he won't have that chance because, well, who knows how Tai and Dora will interact. If it spilled over into the Smif world, Marten would not have that space he may need.

3. Dora doesn't really need to be in any kind of relationship right now. I don't like speculating about even a comic character's life, but given her history with Marten, I think it would be vastly better for her to pursue therapy as a single for a while. Even a FWB situation could get hairy. Sven mentions her previous mates were "a**hole alphagoths", and that kind of behavior can also include sexual domination, and not in the sense of personal preference. We're talking about emotional abuse here. I mean, Faye kinda showed what I mean when her situation with Sven ended the way it did- while that kind of relationship can be healthy for those involved, there is a big risk involved if someone gets even a bit emotionally invested.


Just my .02. Feel free to tear the newbie a new one

[The Duke]

But she's clearly uneasy about it.

Not so uneasy that she won't make a pass at her.

It was really, really only a matter of time actually.

Wow.  I didn't really realize because they were somewhat spread out, but that is some serious foreshadowing right there.


also: AUUUGGGHHH WALL OF TEXT DESTROY THE NEWCOMER

Just kidding.  Welcome here, Zwiebel!

[Odin]

I can't really hold a decent conversation with someone whose M.O. is anger, so... on to other things

People only ever use swear words when angry, folks. 

[Is it cold in here?]

Welcome, new person!

Dora was single for a long time pre-Marten, and seemed to manage it OK. So I agree: Dora would be better off not trying to manage a relationship until she straightens herself out.

[Carl-E]

Odin, if you find yourself being misunderstood by the majority of people who respond to you, the problem may not be with them.  

Just sayin.  

I don't personally think it's a thicker skin you need - it seems plenty thick enough.  But you really  need to work on your communication skills.  You say things so often with no explanation, and using broad generalisations.  Your first comments here were just that, it took you two or three tries to elucidate your idea enough to be understandable, all the while bitching that people didn't understand what you were trying to say, and insulting those who toook offense - so much so that you baited a few other posters.  Your MO may not be anger, but it's not attractive, either.  

You might want to work on that.  

Based on what I know of you though, you probably won't.  

[Miakaru]

1802-1818: Day after break up, Therapy call
1819-1837: Martin's Mom Visit
1838-1855: Day After Visit
1856-1874: Random Day
1875-current: Next Day, first day of therapy

I'd say it's been a week since the breakup, tops. The first three days are all linked, and the later two are. 1865, Padma recognizes Martin, but doesn't know his name. He also doesn't know her name, so I while he's been to SB a few times, I doubt more than 2-3.

[Sharp]

While this is certainly an interesting turn of events, it made me uneasy. I like the drama, I don't like the drama, augh.
I can see this either leading to wacky misunderstandings and more hurt feelings, (I imagine Marten will be run over by a bicyclist, just for good measure) but I think it will serve more as a plot hook than a lasting situation.

I think Marten will notice Tai's unease. Tai may broach the subject with Marten after some prodding. Marten will probably do his whole "Bwuh dwuh?" thing and he will either give his consent or he will tell Tai that even though he may not like it, he can't stop her. (I can't see Marten saying "No" flat out.)

Or maybe it will come from Dora: Tai may start dropping in more often, start dropping hints. If she asks Dora out I can totally see Dora rejecting her for either her own stability or what she sees as Marten's best interests. I've always thought that Dora really did see Tai as just a friend.

I think that what a lot of people are forgetting is that Marten and Dora were in Love. And I think that they may still be, albeit seperated. At the very least, they still love each other without being IN love. They still care about what happens to the other person and they both seem okay with a break right now.

[Odin]

1802-1818: Day after break up, Therapy call
1819-1837: Martin's Mom Visit
1838-1855: Day After Visit
1856-1874: Random Day
1875-current: Next Day, first day of therapy

I'd say it's been a week since the breakup, tops. The first three days are all linked, and the later two are. 1865, Padma recognizes Martin, but doesn't know his name. He also doesn't know her name, so I while he's been to SB a few times, I doubt more than 2-3.

You may want to review those strips again, many pages were spent in the WCDT threads for them talking about the various instances of "time gaps" in them.

It has been at least a month, if not longer.

[Somebody]

Dora was single for a long time pre-Marten, and seemed to manage it OK. So I agree: Dora would be better off not trying to manage a relationship until she straightens herself out.

I basically agree with the above (although, since a Dora/Tai relatiionship is what's being discussed, "until she straightens herself out" is perhaps a poor choice of words )

1802-1818: Day after break up, Therapy call
1819-1837: Martin's Mom Visit
1838-1855: Day After Visit
1856-1874: Random Day
1875-current: Next Day, first day of therapy

I'd say it's been a week since the breakup, tops. The first three days are all linked, and the later two are. 1865, Padma recognizes Martin, but doesn't know his name. He also doesn't know her name, so I while he's been to SB a few times, I doubt more than 2-3.

#1861: "It's been weeks [since the breakup]"

[Zwiebel]

also: AUUUGGGHHH WALL OF TEXT DESTROY THE NEWCOMER

Just kidding.  Welcome here, Zwiebel!
[/quote]

Argh, every single time. You know, this whole pitchforks-and-torches thing gets old after a bit. I'm quite flammable, you know, and medical bills are expensive!

Thanks for a warm welcome all, and if swearing means one is angry... oh dear. I'm a very angry person, since I am very sweary.

I can't really hold a decent conversation with someone whose M.O. is anger, so... on to other things

People only ever use swear words when angry, folks. 

Thanks for a warm welcome all, and if swearing means one is angry... oh dear. I'm a very angry person, since I am very sweary.

[ysth]

None of the above, Tai. YOU'RE PREGGERS!

[Odin]

^^^Marten was warned about using the unisex restroom at the library to masturbate! He just didn't listen! (reference to Clerks II, by the way)

Odin, if you find yourself being misunderstood by the majority of people who respond to you, the problem may not be with them.  

Just sayin.

It isn't anywhere near a majority, only the two or three people that don't bother to read (or don't retain, pick one) what has been discussed in the past two or three weeks of WCDT.

I don't have a problem with them, personally. I just can't resist the urge to poke fun at people that are not paying attention to things that were just discussed in this forum not even a week ago that contradicts the problems they have with what I say half the time (this latest argument being the exception); like the post above ignoring the lengthy thread we had discussing the time gaps in recent strips (and a couple prior instances of the same gaps earlier in the QC series).

I don't personally think it's a thicker skin you need - it seems plenty thick enough.  But you really  need to work on your communication skills.  You say things so often with no explanation, and using broad generalisations.  Your first comments here were just that, it took you two or three tries to elucidate your idea enough to be understandable, all the while bitching that people didn't understand what you were trying to say, and insulting those who toook offense - so much so that you baited a few other posters.  Your MO may not be anger, but it's not attractive, either.

 

I just don't see the need to go trawling through 50 pages of 3 different threads to dig up links to posts that everyone should have already read up to this point. It isn't even that difficult to have read the previous threads (and being the kind of person that rushes straight from the comic page to the forum to post without reading what was said prior to their post pretty much deserves to get called out on it), is it?

You might want to work on that.  

Based on what I know of you though, you probably won't.

I'll start working on sourcing my references to previous threads when people start making it clear that they haven't read the discussions up to whatever the current point is and ask for some sort of summary relative to their perception of things. Otherwise, if they aren't going to put forth the effort, they kind of deserve the frustration of not knowing where my posts are coming from (they all work and make perfect sense if you use the correct context of "wait, did we discuss this within the last few days on these very forums? Woah!").

[Mustakyy]

Hooo-boy..        

Somehow I get the feeling that this will end tears.. Seems that we've seen fair share of comedy lately (Good times with Faye and Angus, the introduction of TSB and its employees, brotimes with Steve)and another session of teh drama is due.


Zwiebel, quite nice (and accurate, imho) first post. *applaud*

[Miakaru]

1802-1818: Day after break up, Therapy call
1819-1837: Martin's Mom Visit
1838-1855: Day After Visit
1856-1874: Random Day
1875-current: Next Day, first day of therapy

I'd say it's been a week since the breakup, tops. The first three days are all linked, and the later two are. 1865, Padma recognizes Martin, but doesn't know his name. He also doesn't know her name, so I while he's been to SB a few times, I doubt more than 2-3.

You may want to review those strips again, many pages were spent in the WCDT threads for them talking about the various instances of "time gaps" in them.

It has been at least a month, if not longer.

Yes, god forbid I don't read the forums everyday and just when something interesting happen in the strip I'm curious to other peoples opinions on. However, Somebody did point to a strip saying it had been "weeks" since the breakup.

One of my main points was the therapy call/visit. From past experiences, I don't think it would take longer than a month from the time of her call to her first visit. 2-3 weeks even seems like large amount of time.

Also, as a general thought, is it not common curtsy to give half the time of a friends relationship before even asking their opinion on your asking them out?

[Kugai]

Hoooooo  boy

This will either end in a Commitment Ceremony or a trip to Davy Jones' Locker.

[westrim]

Also, as a general thought, is it not common curtsy to give half the time of a friends relationship before even asking their opinion on your asking them out?

Curtsying isn't very popular these days. We'd probably get along better if people would curtsy more. Specifically, I haven't heard of a rule that says you must curtsy to a friend with a lost relationship before going after their ex for a specific period of time, just an undefinable 'until the hurt goes away'. Methinks everyone views the proper curtsy for that situation differently, and all the arguing on a comic forum thread in the word isn't going to change their gut instinct.

[Odin]

You may want to review those strips again, many pages were spent in the WCDT threads for them talking about the various instances of "time gaps" in them.

It has been at least a month, if not longer.

Yes, god forbid I don't read the forums everyday and just when something interesting happen in the strip I'm curious to other peoples opinions on. However, Somebody did point to a strip saying it had been "weeks" since the breakup.

 

One of my main points was the therapy call/visit. From past experiences, I don't think it would take longer than a month from the time of her call to her first visit. 2-3 weeks even seems like large amount of time.

This would depend entirely on how huge a client list your local therapist has (and how many therapists are available in your area), honestly. I know there is a woeful shortage of them in Georgia and you're pretty much shit out of luck unless you live near medium-sized city (plenty of child therapists around, not so many for adults).

Also, as a general thought, is it not common curtsy to give half the time of a friends relationship before even asking their opinion on your asking them out?

Well, if you're going so far as to curtsy while asking, sure.  

[CEOIII]

*putting on my asbestos suit*

I'm with Odin. The heart wants what it wants when it wants it. Tai should, at least, try hanging out with Dora and see where that goes.

[Black Sword]

In the metaphysical sense, heart causes more problems than the (upper) head. People who advocate with the heart cause more long-term problems than those who follow their (upper) heads.

I really hope Jeph surprises me and doesn't do what I think he's going to do. I'd be fairly disgusted if he did.

[John_Knee]

Dora and Marten haven't even had any sort of closure yet, have they? And how much time has passed since the breakup?

Marten may not have had any closure yet, but it seem Dora has moved on quite nicely (she's been exhibiting the most "normal" behavior out of anyone: she continued on with her life after allowing herself to grieve over the breakup; meanwhile, Marten is changing his entire social circle to avoid having to deal with moving the fuck on).

If it has been a month since one of your friends broke up with their ex of six months and they are still moping around about it like a sad sack, that friend is the one with problems, not you.

Dora is getting therapy and apparently happily moving on with her life, she is free to date or do whatever she wants and it is literally none of Marten's concern what she does any more.
[/quote]

I'll state right out that I think the breakup is a month tops rather than months.....

I'm not convinced Dora is over it. A common response to emotionally painful situations is to put a mask on the situation by telling everyone you are ok and trying to act "normal". If you are acting normal and all over it then people are less likely to ask how you are feeling and therefore force you to consider your still raw emotions. We know from the first major argument between Martin and Dora that Dora's exes have been general lowlife... But Martin only found that out upon talking to Sven and wondering why Dora was over reacting. Dora strikes me as someone who acts more stereotypically male by dealing with breakups by burying them rather than talking about them.

In terms of your last comment, the issue is whether or not Tai should be making a move on Martin's ex while emotions are still maybe high. The question isn't if Dora should start dating Tai or anyone else. I suspect that if Dora did have a one night rebound night with Tai then she'd be mortified afterwards.

[Kugai]

Actually, I think that subconsciously Dora is looking for a 'Change in Direction'

After all, she managed to fuck up what is, to all intents and purposes. her first long term relationship with a guy (Marten) in god knows how long - and she knows she's the one who fucked it up.  It may be that she's seeking to swing to the other side of her Bisexual nature, and Tai is an easy target since she knows that Tai would just love to get between the sheets with her.

Whether or not it works or turns into another train wreck is a matter of conjecture - and what direction Jeph wants to go in.

[Elysiana]

John_Knee... that's kind of how I feel. Plus we've barely seen Dora since the breakup... Marten's mom came over and talked to her and she didn't seem over it then... she moved in with Sven... she had her therapy session and didn't "get to" talk about her problems... and she told Marigold to try a miniskirt lol. That's pretty much been all we've seen of her.

I would be extremely interested to see what Dora's reaction to Tai coming in was. Imagine how different the comic would be if SHE had said "I wonder if this is butterflies or food poisoning?"  I hate speculation, but I am curious to see if we will see her reaction tomorrow.

[tbones]

I really hope Jeph surprises me and doesn't do what I think he's going to do. I'd be fairly disgusted if he did.

...

...


Uhm...

What do you think he is going to do???

[Heliphyneau]

Empathy is learned behavior.  Always interesting to see who has learned it and who has not.

More interesting will be whether Dora will find herself returning Tai's more-than-platonic feelings or if this will turn out to have been one of those I-flirted-with-you-while-I-had-a-boyfriend-because-I-knew-nothing-would-happen situations.    Any of a number of directions Jeph could take this.

And weren't Dora and Marten together for about 2 years QC-time?  At least that's what I thought Jeph said in one of his end notes awhile back . . .

[mary tyler murder]

the feeling in my stomach is *barfs*

[musicalsoul]

I find Odin makes sense, to an extent, cause the heart wants what the heart wants.
Now time for a personal anecdote:
A couple of years ago, I was in love with a guy. He fell in love with my best friend. My friend, asked me for permission before they started dating and it has shaped my opinion on these types of situations ever since.

There is basically no point in asking. Whether it's your friends ex, the guy/girl they've been trying to hook up with for years, or the love of their life, there's no point in asking for permission.
When I was asked if it was okay, I said yes. Because, am I really gonna say no? Am I really going to be that big of a bitch? Am I really gonna try and keep someone else from finding their happiness cause it's not with me? Is my saying no really going to stop them? No. And if for some reason, it actually did, would I want to live with that kind of guilt? What if they were fuckin' soul-mates or something? You can't know.
Now, when my friend asked me, it was a nice gesture, and it did make her seem like she was being considerate. But I don't for a second think that she wouldn't have dated him if I said no. And that's okay.

Did it make things awkward for a little while? Yes, cause I had serious feelings for the guy my best friend was now dating. But, it actually helped me get over them, knowing he was no longer an option. And it was nice seeing two of my best friends happy. If it had been my ex boyfriend who I had just broken up with a month or so ago, it still would have turned out that way. Part of you doesn't want to see someone move on faster than you, but if they've moved on to your friend, and you know your friend will treat them right, if you still care about them, that turns out to be a good thing.

[Somnus Eternus]

It's good to see that Tai clearly has misgivings about developing feelings for Dora, only because I think it's likely because she's considering her friendship with Marten when she's getting those butterflies of hers.

If, however, she does wind up going for it, I really hope Marten doesn't kill the friendship out of hurt/jealousy.  It would sting, I'm sure, but I'd hope he could handle it with enough maturity that, even if it becomes awkward for a while, he and Tai don't become completely alienated.

In the end, friendships should be able to survive dating your friend's ex (or your friend dating your ex) provided it's handled the right way, so TL;DR: I hope they handle it the right (read: sensitive) way.

[Elysiana]

I wouldn't say you have to ask for permission, but a "So what's the deal with you two, are you officially done and over now?" is a nice gesture and makes sense. Especially in a case such as this where it was like "Look, I'm obviously not in the right frame of mind to date you right now, I need to get my brain sorted out first." There was no "I can't date you, we don't work as a couple" per se.

Whether or not permission is asked, and whether or not Tai knows if Dora/Marten are "officially" broken up, I think Dora is probably strong enough to handle herself. She is good at letting people know her mind and I don't think she would hesitate to tell Tai where they stand.

Marten, however, is a different story I think. He has really run the gamut of emotions lately and I can EASILY see him calling Tai out on it and saying, "What the hell, were you just waiting for me to be out of the picture?" If that's the case, Tai may sense that too - she's not trying to stifle her feelings because they're both her friends but because she knows or thinks she knows what his reaction would be.

[Moxie]

I'm finding this thread pretty interesting and just wanted to add in my own thoughts

Dora and Marten haven't even had any sort of closure yet, have they? And how much time has passed since the breakup?

Marten may not have had any closure yet, but it seem Dora has moved on quite nicely (she's been exhibiting the most "normal" behavior out of anyone: she continued on with her life after allowing herself to grieve over the breakup; meanwhile, Marten is changing his entire social circle to avoid having to deal with moving the fuck on).

It has been at least a month since the breakup, QC-time, what with the hair growth and all going on. Considering the relationship itself lasted all of maybe six months QC-time, I think that's pretty easily enough time for people to start moving on with their lives.

In regards to the break-up: a common rule of thumb I've heard many times is that it takes half the time you were in a relationship to fully "be over it". So, if Marten and Dora were in a relationship for 6 six months, I'd expect both of them to have grown more comfortable with the idea and moved on in about 3 months. Longer than that and yes, I'd say one or the other is having a more difficult time and may need to seek some kind of help or such.

As far as moving on: someone else has already mentioned that Dora's "normal" behavior could simply be her faking it (so that she doesn't have to talk about it...which given her past, I'm inclined to believe it). Yes, she's living her life and going to therapy and such, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's moved on nicely - it may only mean she's capable of faking it (hopefully until she makes it). As far as Marten changing his whole social circle...well, that doesn't have to be a terrible thing. Yes, it could mean he's being childish and not dealing with his issues, and finding a group that can fulfill him like the others. However, it could also mean that he's realized being in the previous group was akin to him being in a rut, and the break-up with Dora gives him a free pass on moving on with his life. I don't know if that's really the case, of course, but it could be.

I think we are more likely to, in fact, because we've grown up and don't just trounce on other people. Teenagers tend to be selfish and not ask for permission; adults are, well, adult enough to talk about it with the party in question first - especially if there has not been closure.

If it has been a month since one of your friends broke up with their ex of six months and they are still moping around about it like a sad sack, that friend is the one with problems, not you.

Again, if it's only been a month, I'd give the friend the benefit of the doubt. If it lasts longer than 3 months (because of the whole 'half as long as the relationship' thing) then yes, I would believe that they've moped around longer than what they should have, and maybe have more problems. People are allowed to be sad and grieve about things ending, especially if it was unexpected. I believe to be a good friend is to be supportive of that, and perhaps try to help the person find closure...but again, of course a friend can only do so much, and a limit should be expected. But unless the relationship only lasted 2 months, I think it's asking a lot of the person to be completely over within a month.




Edit:

Marten, however, is a different story I think. He has really run the gamut of emotions lately and I can EASILY see him calling Tai out on it and saying, "What the hell, were you just waiting for me to be out of the picture?"

I can so see this too! Doesn't mean that it's right for Marten to react that way, but seriously, after only a month, that seems like it would really sting...especially given Tai's behavior while Marten and Dora were dating. I could see it making life for Marten and Tai really tough at work. (I can also see this reaction from Marten if Dora would turn Tai down - it's just the fact that Tai would 'make a move' on Dora so soon! And again, not that such a reaction would be right, but it would certainly be understandable, especially given the short amount of time since the break-up).

[DJRubberducky]

One of my main points was the therapy call/visit. From past experiences, I don't think it would take longer than a month from the time of her call to her first visit. 2-3 weeks even seems like large amount of time.

1) You may well have had enviable past experiences.  I know I've had to wait 2-3 weeks for an initial appointment because of the times I was available.

2) I've had an every-two-week appointment cancelled by a life event on the therapist's part.  So it was a month between visits.

3) Nothing stopping Dora from abusing those possibilities fraudulently.

[Elysiana]

I can so see this too! Doesn't mean that it's right for Marten to react that way, but seriously, after only a month, that seems like it would really sting...especially given Tai's behavior while Marten and Dora were dating.

I think you hit the nail on the head here - if Tai hadn't talked about it so much before then I think he MIGHT let it slide. As it stands, she's made numerous remarks about liking Dora and it really would look pretty bad. Actually I kind of wonder if she thought she was joking about it with them before but now realizes that it's less of a joke than she thought? That would explain why she seems surprised at her butterflies.

[HiFranc]

Actually, they were dating about 18 months.  If you remember, they kissed whilst the weather was still cold, they had a summer, Wil was traveling the next winter (and they the sledge party that year) and now it's summer again.

[Razgriz]

I'm saying an adult friend is going to move on from past relationships with their exes and it should not ever be a problem for their friends to date one of their exes. If the friend seriously has a problem with their Ex dating one of their friends, they have deeper issues with letting go and all that other nasty stuff that goes along with clingy, creepy people than you can help them with (and as I said earlier, it wouldn't matter if the EX is dating a friend or not, the simple fact that they are bothered by the ex dating anybody is indicative of serious mental problems).

This quote really makes me sad for you, because I honestly can't imagine that you've ever cared about anyone in your entire life if you think still missing someone after a month is indicative of serious mental problems.

[ecstaticjoy]

Yay! Dora and Tai!!

[Moxie]

I can so see this too! Doesn't mean that it's right for Marten to react that way, but seriously, after only a month, that seems like it would really sting...especially given Tai's behavior while Marten and Dora were dating.

I think you hit the nail on the head here - if Tai hadn't talked about it so much before then I think he MIGHT let it slide. As it stands, she's made numerous remarks about liking Dora and it really would look pretty bad. Actually I kind of wonder if she thought she was joking about it with them before but now realizes that it's less of a joke than she thought? That would explain why she seems surprised at her butterflies.

I definitely see your last point there - Tai joking about it, but now realizing it maybe isn't that. After all, she could have been keeping her own feelings hidden from herself since she didn't want to really come between Marten and Dora, and now that that isn't a block anymore she can start to explore those feelings. Or at least acknowledge that they are real to her?

Actually, they were dating about 18 months.  If you remember, they kissed whilst the weather was still cold, they had a summer, Wil was traveling the next winter (and they the sledge party that year) and now it's summer again.

Well then, I'd say it'd take Marten the better part of a year (roughly about 9 months) to be fully over Dora and ready to move back into the dating world without his head being muddled by feelings from the relationship. If it really has been only a month, I'm not too terribly worried about him still being mopey.

[Fenriswolf]

if Tai and Dora got together, in a totally not trite or dramatic way.

Is that even possible?

Ha, doubtful. But possible... obviously it would have to be something that developed really slowly. It'd just be nice to see a bi woman end up in a relationship with a woman in a natural way, because you seldom see it in popular media. A man or woman who is genuinely attracted to multiple genders, for whom it is not a big deal (beyond harassment holding hands and other discrimination) for them to get out of a hetero relationship and end up in a gay one.

[LoveJaneAusten]

Ugh, I hope the story doesn't just become the QC cast trading boyfriends/girlfriends. Friends was a bad show.

[SJCrew]

Even though Dora gives off some pretty strong bisexual vibes, I can't seriously see her hooking up with a chick. Just doesn't seem right.

[Is it cold in here?]

In the "Fat Faye" thread, Jeph said that Dora's attentions to the Pugnacious Peach were sincere.

[LeeC]

[justanotherbrick]

Personally, I'm in the "courtesy" camp - not necessarily that you have to ask permission, per se, but that you should at least be sensitive to the situation and empathic towards the ex.

Also, no one has brought this up yet, so I guess I'll be the one to stir the pot...Dora sure didn't wait before Faye was done moving on from Marten, did she? I mean, I agree that "the heart wants what it wants", but while we're on the subject of whether it's appropriate to date a friend's ex immediately or not, it seems that there's a precedent in this group of friends. Marten and Faye were practically "exes" after the talk, for all the emotional baggage there was, and Dora waited "TWO FRIGGIN' DAYS?!" (in the words of Faye) before snatching him up. Granted, she felt bad about it, but actions speak louder than words.

That being said, I don't think that Marten would have a right to be upset if Tai and Dora became involved with each other. It's been pretty clear for a while that Tai is interested in Dora ("Basically, my ideal is you, only single").


Also....EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I've always thought that Tai and Dora would make a good couple, far better than Dora and Marten.