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[Black Sword]

You know, for a comic titled "Questionable Content", Jeph's never really had much more than implied sex and conveniently censored nudity. 

No, I'm not  complaining.  It's just an observation! 

I would consider those things fairly questionable.   Sure, these things come up in close groups of friends, but they're not necessarily standard topics of polite situations.  To me, the questionability arises from the appropriateness of the topics in the presence of a general population.  Topics like this aren't comfortable for many; and yet, they are not outright taboo.

I don't know. I may be over thinking this.  My 2˘.

Quite a few of his comics would prompt dirty looks at the office, where many of us check the comic first thing in the morning, so little surprises like that do provoke some complaints of questionablity. Also, implied sex? Fairly sure Gina Riversmith was WAY beyond implied.

[Is it cold in here?]

I won't ever do nudity in my comic mainly because I want people to be able to look at it at work without getting fired, if possible. Also drawing people doin' it would feel REALLY creepy.

Since then there's been 1334 and the Rene Engstrom guest strip, but Jeph's been pretty consistent about keeping to PG for nudity.

[rje]

I wasn't paying attention to why Mieville jumped and thought the look on his face was -priceless-, like a sudden fear/panic 'MUST - COVER - NEKKID - BREASTESES!'  But then I saw the moth (which I thought at first was a previously-unseen magically disappearing tat on Tai's neck) ... it must be too early for me to attempt cohesive thought, sheesh xD

My favorite part is the 'nyom nyom' ... if Mieville's anything like my cat, Dora's going to have a lovely little pile of mushed-up moth and vomit to clean up in a few minutes.

She also seems rather blase' about the appearance of said boobs, poor Tai...that is really not the reaction you're wanting with surprise nudity.  

[Is it cold in here?]

Is Tai a stereotype of anything other than the dissipated college student?

[Near Lurker]

Tai's lost a lot of subtlety since Marigold.  If anything were likely to happen, Dora probably would have acknowledged her at least a bit by now.

...of course, she doesn't go for the butch girls, anyway.  Especially not the ones her last boyfriend works for.  Then again, Tai said she'd never go for a bi girl whose ex-boyfriend she knew, didn't she?

[DSL]

I'd say the most consisient thing about Tai is her lack of a sense of boundaries. To be fair to her, she cheerfully puts up with it coming back. I'd say her function as a character is comparson- contrast: Someone with no (well, few, anyway) hangups about anything. She's a foil and a test for the other characters.

[iduguphergrave]

My favorite part is the 'nyom nyom' ... if Mieville's anything like my cat, Dora's going to have a lovely little pile of mushed-up moth and vomit to clean up in a few minutes.

lol I didn't even notice the nyomming until you just pointed it out. And I feel your pain, my cat has an awesome habit of vomiting on a regular basis too -_-

[LoveJaneAusten]

Is Tai a stereotype of anything other than the dissipated college student?

Yep. See below.

What stereotype? Women can be horny and love sex too. Tai just happens the be the one female character in this strip who's least modest about it. You're really digging deep for a complaint on this one.

Believe me, you don't have to convince me that women can be horny and love sex as much as men. However, there absolutely is a stereotype of gays and lesbians as excessively sexual. Lesbian women are in particular painted as slutty, because lesbian sexuality is so often portrayed for the male gaze, and because they are often assumed to be one straight sex encounter from being straight. Today's comic is particularly egregious because not only does Tai go topless as a reflex to seeing Dora in a bra, but she then tries to strip Faye! This is effectively a caricature of the slutty lesbian, illustrating what is probably the most dangerous stereotype for gays and lesbians: that they will, given half a chance, try to have sex with and "convert" straight people. It speaks to a deep homophobia in the media, a fear of gay sexuality as essentially contagious. This was a huge problem in the 80s when AIDS became a problem, and it's a huge problem today.

And this is all to say nothing of how Tai fits numerous other lesbian stereotypes (life revolves around sex, gets a piercing at the drop of a hat, recreational drug user).

I love the way that strips like today's expose people's hang-ups or their blinkered views of the world around them!

What's more revealing is the perpetuation of lesbian stereotypes in media, including this comic, and the defense of such stereotypes as innocuous rather than participating in a widespread and generally male-controlled media that, despite any purported innocent intentions, rarely misses an opportunity to cast gays and lesbians as willing to get naked and have sex with anyone, anywhere. I'm not blaming Jeph for all of these stereotypes in the media, but to say that today's comic does not further entrench lesbian stereotypes is plain wrong.

I actually kind of have to agree that Tai is showing a bit of the "lesbian party-girl horndog" stereotype.  The thing is, the reason that stereotype exists is because some people are actually like that.  Tai' flashed her naughty-bits before, you know.  In fact between drunken pantslessness and her hood piercing, she's spent more time disrobed than probably any other character in QC.  We also know that she has poor impulse control at the best of times, and considering the library rave she started and the fact that she uses LSD at work, she's not exactly inhibited even when she's actually thinking about her actions.  Today's comic is... actually pretty standard, for her.  And if you've never had that one crazy friend who pulls shenanigans at every turn - maybe not at this standard, but stil - then all I can say is that you must live in a very open-minded monastery to allow you free internet access like this.

Seriously, this is such a non-issue it's not even worth waving The Useless Broom Made Entirely Out Of Dicks over.  And since the broom is, y'know, useless... that's saying something.

That's all exactly right! The problem is that it says something that Tai is drunken and pantsless and drugged up and pierced and uninhibited and lesbian. There are absolutely people who are actually like that (I've known some myself). That is not the issue. The issue is how this comic participates in media that ingrains these stereotypes in the public consciousness. The issue is beyond the comic, and the comic is only a symptom.

[pwhodges]

<stuff about stereotypes>

It seems to me that you  have a strong stereotype* of lesbians that you feel Tai in today's comic matches.  However, my (reasonably wide) experience of lesbians has revealed no behaviour that fits the stereotype you are going on about; in any case, I try quite hard myself not to deal in inappropriate stereotyping..

* Alternatively, what you have is a stereotype of people that you think have stereotypes of lesbians...

[LoveJaneAusten]

<stuff about stereotypes>

It seems to me that you  have a strong stereotype* of lesbians that you feel Tai in today's comic matches.  However, my (reasonably wide) experience of lesbians has revealed no behaviour that fits the stereotype you are going on about; in any case, I try quite hard myself not to deal in inappropriate stereotyping..

* Alternatively, what you have is a stereotype of people that you think have stereotypes of lesbians...

The thing about how stereotypes work is that your (or my) experience with lesbians and gays is not what is portrayed in media, which is where my criticism falls. I know gays and lesbians who are completely unlike Tai, and I know some who are sort of like Tai, and I know some who are Tai to a Tee. It is admirable that you make an effort not to deal in stereotypes in your personal life. However, that does not mean that the stereotype of gays and lesbians as perpetually on the hunt for people to convert does not exist. It does, and it's repeated in all kinds of media, and it's dangerous. As I mentioned earlier, my criticism is not of Jeph personally and it is not even really of the comic in particular, it is of what the comic is symptomatic of. The comic has a context, a specific cultural setting, and it is reflective of norms and values. And in this particular case it portrays a pretty common lesbian stereotype. My noticing it is not me projecting stereotypes onto the character, because Tai definitely does things that illustrate her as a caricature.

[pwhodges]

But don't forget that the behaviour associated with a stereotype can also be real and natural in some cases - stereotypes are, after all, no more than a simplification of the truth (though sometimes based on an extreme or inaccurate variant rather than a mean).  However, as we cannot deal with every individual in the world separately at all times, the use of stereotypes is a necessary part of many discussions or interactions - after all, I am stereotyping if I address a stranger in the language of the country I am in, for instance, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable starting point.  The problem with stereotypes is not their existence or use, but their use when not appropriate.

[Odin]

<stuff about stereotypes>

It seems to me that you  have a strong stereotype* of lesbians that you feel Tai in today's comic matches.  However, my (reasonably wide) experience of lesbians has revealed no behaviour that fits the stereotype you are going on about; in any case, I try quite hard myself not to deal in inappropriate stereotyping..

* Alternatively, what you have is a stereotype of people that you think have stereotypes of lesbians...

But don't forget that the behaviour associated with a stereotype can also be real and natural in some cases - stereotypes are, after all, no more than a simplification of the truth (though sometimes based on an extreme or inaccurate variant rather than a mean).  However, as we cannot deal with every individual in the world separately at all times, the use of stereotypes is a necessary part of many discussions or interactions - after all, I am stereotyping if I address a stranger in the language of the country I am in, for instance, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable starting point.  The problem with stereotypes is not their existence or use, but their use when not appropriate.

[Method of Madness]

What is that?

Also, dude, really?  An image of ASCII?  Doesn't that go against the idea of ASCII?

[pwhodges]

What is that?

I think it's a photocopier; it seems we have found something we agree on!

[LoveJaneAusten]

But don't forget that the behaviour associated with a stereotype can also be real and natural in some cases - stereotypes are, after all, no more than a simplification of the truth (though sometimes based on an extreme or inaccurate variant rather than a mean).  However, as we cannot deal with every individual in the world separately at all times, the use of stereotypes is a necessary part of many discussions or interactions - after all, I am stereotyping if I address a stranger in the language of the country I am in, for instance, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable starting point.  The problem with stereotypes is not their existence or use, but their use when not appropriate.

That is not really the same sort of stereotype I am talking about. Of course in an everyday situation, such as speaking with someone in another country, you will assume that they can speak the native language of their country, but that is again a one-on-one interaction, not an endemic portrayal of a minority in media. You are absolutely correct that the problem with stereotypes is when their use is inappropriate, and I understand that this is a comic that relies on humor and sometimes stereotypes. However, I think that even in our entertainment, perhaps especially in our entertainment, we need to be conscious of how the media we consume participates in and perpetuates stereotypes, and Tai's character definitely qualifies.

[pwhodges]

So, even though the comic has portrayed at least one other lesbian who is not like Tai, and other gays who are also different, you feel that the portrayal of Tai should specifically avoid being like a particular stereotype that you are conscious of? 

As I said before, I can't say that I am conscious of that exact stereotype, so maybe others, Jeph even, are not - certainly the (poor) Wikipedia article on LGBT stereotypes doesn't seem to point to there being a common stereotype specifically like Tai, nor this Yahoo Answers.

[mike837go]

Those scenes only happen in real life to titilate the male gaze, silly. Whatever women choose to do is never really a choice: it's all part of a carefully scripted societal paradigm of male dominance through sexual subjugation.

Yes! And it also is getting those males to part with their money.

[StevenC]

Raven flashed Sven in a crowded bar. She and Tai are just very... outgoing.

[Somebody]

Tai will shortly be tsunned...

[Method of Madness]

That was worse than Hannelore's "designer genes" pun.

(Which was actually awesome, since not only was she probably not joking, but she probably has them.)

[cesariojpn]

So, even though the comic has portrayed at least one other lesbian who is not like Tai,

I thought there were two other lesbian one shot characters (The time Tai pumped Techno thru the Library Sound System, forgot the strip #), or are we juts assuming for the moment that two girls in bed = LESBIANS as an automatic default? 

[pwhodges]

Faye's lesbian sister was around for a whole arc; but there have also been lesbian extras in scenes with both Tai and Cosette - hence the "at least".

[SJCrew]

or are we juts assuming for the moment that two girls in bed = LESBIANS as an automatic default?

That's a pretty garbage way of guilt tripping people for a perfectly reasonable assumption that was never made. Where did this come from, anyway?

[TheEvilDog]

So, even though the comic has portrayed at least one other lesbian who is not like Tai,

I thought there were two other lesbian one shot characters (The time Tai pumped Techno thru the Library Sound System, forgot the strip #), or are we juts assuming for the moment that two girls in bed = LESBIANS as an automatic default? 

The only other lesbian we've actually seen in QC has been Bailey, who I think has had a grand total of two lines, "Hi Tai." and "My E has just kicked in." Compare her to Tai or Faye's sister Amanda, and we now have two second tier characters, who have been involved in multiple story arcs. (I say second tier because neither have been the cause of a major story arc, instead they have been incidental characters or just starting off a quick sidestory). Given their involvment in QC, it could be easier to kind of think of them as the only prominent lesbians in the comic.

[LoveJaneAusten]

So, even though the comic has portrayed at least one other lesbian who is not like Tai, and other gays who are also different, you feel that the portrayal of Tai should specifically avoid being like a particular stereotype that you are conscious of? 

As I said before, I can't say that I am conscious of that exact stereotype, so maybe others, Jeph even, are not - certainly the (poor) Wikipedia article on LGBT stereotypes doesn't seem to point to there being a common stereotype specifically like Tai, nor this Yahoo Answers.

No, I am not making a claim as to what the comic should or shouldn't do. I am recognizing that it exists in a media context, and that it is participating in a stereotype common in the media. Other portrayals of lesbians aren't very relevant to how this particular instance operates in perpetuating the stereotype. The fact that you're not conscious of that stereotype doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and Yahoo answers is perhaps not the most authoritative source here. Feminist and GLBT blogs would be a better place to look; see Jezebel's list of Lesbian Cliches and Stereotypes, in particular under Lifestyle, where it says, "Partner choices: Recruiting straight women preferred". I'm not sure how anyone could deny that homosexuals in media are portrayed as sex-obsessed. It is incredibly common.

[CompSarge]

So, even though the comic has portrayed at least one other lesbian who is not like Tai, and other gays who are also different, you feel that the portrayal of Tai should specifically avoid being like a particular stereotype that you are conscious of? 

As I said before, I can't say that I am conscious of that exact stereotype, so maybe others, Jeph even, are not - certainly the (poor) Wikipedia article on LGBT stereotypes doesn't seem to point to there being a common stereotype specifically like Tai, nor this Yahoo Answers.

No, I am not making a claim as to what the comic should or shouldn't do. I am recognizing that it exists in a media context, and that it is participating in a stereotype common in the media. Other portrayals of lesbians aren't very relevant to how this particular instance operates in perpetuating the stereotype. The fact that you're not conscious of that stereotype doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and Yahoo answers is perhaps not the most authoritative source here. Feminist and GLBT blogs would be a better place to look; see Jezebel's list of Lesbian Cliches and Stereotypes, in particular under Lifestyle, where it says, "Partner choices: Recruiting straight women preferred". I'm not sure how anyone could deny that homosexuals in media are portrayed as sex-obsessed. It is incredibly common.

Following that logic, the entire cast of QC is a walking stereotype, because OMG THEY'RE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX AUGUBLUAHLUAHAUHALAH!!11! 

Guess what; every orientation is portrayed as "sex-obsessed" in the media, because in effect it's true. Does it mean it's 100% correct? No. Do we all think it's true because the media says it's true? No. The only people who really care about the "stereotypes" are people who are looking for something to get offended about. Yes, one female character is less inhibited than social norms dictate. Let's look at her background:

1) She is a member of an all-girls college, where women tend to walk around in next to nothing because they don't have any reason to cover up.

2) She periodically has random sex with girls that are mutually interested in her, and has no idea how things work in "the real world" of relationships.

3) She has an intense crush on Dora, which has been heavily hinted at since her induction to the cast. People do stupid things around people they like, regardless of orientation.

Stop finding fault where none exists.

[Heliphyneau]

<-- I was inspired.

D

Your new avatar just won the thread.  +1

[Mr_Rose]

3) She has an intense crush on Dora, which has been heavily hinted at since her induction to the cast. People do stupid things around people they like, regardless of orientation.

Further to 3); not just a romantic crush either; the dynamic has a little bit of "big sister I want to be like (when I grow up)" in there too; Tai seems to see Dora as a mature (ha!) successful role model, as well as the hot italo-swede she wants to fall in love with.
Those are all powerful spurs toward silly behaviour.

Edit: @LoveJaneAusten; where are you getting "Partner choices: Recruiting straight women preferred" from exactly? Which straight woman do you think Tai is recruiting here? Or if you don't think that's what she's doing, why did you mention it?

[pwhodges]

The fact that you're not conscious of that stereotype doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and Yahoo answers is perhaps not the most authoritative source here.

My point was not just that the stereotype you seem to be describing was not listed, but also that as there are apparently a considerable number of different stereotypes, the force of any one is correspondingly reduced.

see Jezebel's list of Lesbian Cliches and Stereotypes, in particular under Lifestyle,

I'd tried looking there earlier and found nothing except stuff about the royal wedding and suchlike!  I guess that I have to log in to get any pertinent stuff, which I'm not inclined to do, thanks (either that, or it's geographically limited).

[LoveJaneAusten]

Following that logic, the entire cast of QC is a walking stereotype, because OMG THEY'RE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX AUGUBLUAHLUAHAUHALAH!!11! 

Guess what; every orientation is portrayed as "sex-obsessed" in the media, because in effect it's true.

That doesn't really make sense, and the treatment of lesbians and gays in the media is not at all equivalent to the treatment of straight people in the media. They really are characterized in particular ways, largely because they are minorities. Furthermore, the effects of portrayals of straights, lesbians, and gays in the media are not equivalent, either.

sigh.gif

"It is sooooo cliché for lesbians to not wear bras. Shame on Jeph for perpetuating those sinister media narratives! Especially when the character gets naked in such an alarming way. I mean, I'm not shaming him... and it's not a matter of what he should or shouldn't do as a writer. Even though I said was 'disappointed to see her treated as essentially a walking stereotype.' I'm just asking everyone to recognize that the third panel Questionable Content #1915 exists in the scope of the global meta-narrative of lesbian stereotypes in media, and want to awaken everyone's consciousness of those stereotypes."

I'm not sure if you don't understand my critique or are deliberately avoiding it, but I don't think I've shamed Jeph for anything. My disappointment at another example of lesbian stereotypes in media is not the same as casting shame, and in fact Jeph could easily use QC to subvert certain harmful stereotypes, which would be great. It seems that a lot of people really do need their eyes opened to these sorts of problems in media. One of the things about entertainment media is that it can be subtle in how it thematizes subjects, so I think it's especially important to have these conversations. Regardless, sarcastically and ironically putting words in my mouth to mischaracterize my argument isn't very constructive as far as conversations go.

Edit: @LoveJaneAusten; where are you getting "Partner choices: Recruiting straight women preferred" from exactly? Which straight woman do you think Tai is recruiting here? Or if you don't think that's what she's doing, why did you mention it?

I did, actually. I pointed out that Tai attempts to strip Faye. I think she actually has hit on Faye before, but I don't even know where in the archives to look. Oh, for a search function...

I'd tried looking there earlier and found nothing except stuff about the royal wedding and suchlike!  I guess that I have to log in to get any pertinent stuff, which I'm not inclined to do, thanks (either that, or it's geographically limited).

Oh! I'm sorry, it must be geographically limited, since I can see it and I don't have a Jezebel account. Anyway, I quoted the most relevant stereotype ("Partner choices: Recruiting straight women preferred").

[CompSarge]

I'm not sure if you don't understand my critique or are deliberately avoiding it, but I don't think I've shamed Jeph for anything.

Maybe you don't remember one of your very first posts. Shall we go back in time?

Lesbian women are in particular painted as slutty, because lesbian sexuality is so often portrayed for the male gaze, and because they are often assumed to be one straight sex encounter from being straight. Today's comic is particularly egregious because not only does Tai go topless as a reflex to seeing Dora in a bra, but she then tries to strip Faye! This is effectively a caricature of the slutty lesbian, illustrating what is probably the most dangerous stereotype for gays and lesbians: that they will, given half a chance, try to have sex with and "convert" straight people. It speaks to a deep homophobia in the media, a fear of gay sexuality as essentially contagious. This was a huge problem in the 80s when AIDS became a problem, and it's a huge problem today.

And this is all to say nothing of how Tai fits numerous other lesbian stereotypes (life revolves around sex, gets a piercing at the drop of a hat, recreational drug user).

Seems to me like there's plenty of shaming going on here.

[Tergon]

Again, I do agree that Tai's a bit of a horny-lesbian stereotype.  But then, if I saw a portly Italian man with a magnificent moustache, I could reasonably say the same about him matching another stereotype, no?  Or perhaps if I were to meet a rock star who had a habit of leaving motel rooms in a mess.  The observation that someone matches a stereotype is just that - an observation.  By itself, it goes no further than that.  And I think we can all agree that as an uninhibited person with few sexual or social boundaries, Tai does meet a stereotype.

The conflict here seems to be whether or not this is a negative thing.  I submit that it is not!  For a stereotype to be seen as negative, then I think one of two things are required, and we're not seeing either of those.

The person is portraying the stereotype to an insulting degree.
Well, even ignoring the fact that Tai is not the only lesbian or homosexual in the strip, Tai is just not a negative character.  The rest of the cast all get along with her, plus she's tiny and hilarious and adorable.  She's confident, outgoing, she's gainfully employed despite the fact that she's only a student, she's clearly intelligent, and she's living her life in a way that she chooses.  The fact that she's uninhibited regarding her sex life and has poor impulse control is just a bit of spice to all that sugar, but I don't believe she's at all an insulting image to hold up to lesbians as a group.

The person is exemplifying the stereotype to an unrealistic point in lieu of serious character development.
From what we've seen, this isn't going against her character development, this is a part of it!  As I noted before, Tai's spent a greater percentage of her screen time in QC at least partially naked than pretty much every other character.  She's quirky, uninhibited, and despite other characters being considerably more straight-laced she's not even the first to flash her boobs, which doesn't exactly make this a watershed moment for the strip.  Not to mention?  That quirky, uninhibited nature of hers has led to most of her interaction with the other characters, but from there it's led to discussions about her lifestyle choices and whether it makes her happy, it's introduced her through Marten to the rest of the cast, it also led to Steve finding Cosette, it got her introduced to Hannelore and Marigold.  And saying that the current strip is going to lead to drama is a pointless statement because... obviously that's the case.  This strip isn't gratuitous boobage in place of character development, it's setting up the scene for what we all know is to come, which will only lead to us exploring Tai's character more deeply.

So, in short, I agree.  Tai is in many ways matching a stereotypical horny, uninhibited lesbian.  I don't deny that.  I just have to follow up the observation with one simple question.

...so what?

[LoveJaneAusten]

Maybe you don't remember one of your very first posts. Shall we go back in time?

Seems to me like there's plenty of shaming going on here.

Ah, I see how you could read my critique as shaming Jeph, but it really isn't. It's an analysis of the comic, not a missive directed at Jeph, and I think I ground it pretty well in the context of media stereotypes.

So, in short, I agree.  Tai is in many ways matching a stereotypical horny, uninhibited lesbian.  I don't deny that.  I just have to follow up the observation with one simple question.

...so what?

This is a pretty good analysis! There is another way a stereotype can be harmful or seen as negative, however, and that is when stereotypes, even ones that appear innocuous, exist in a larger context of portrayals. That is what I've been trying to get across in this discussion. This particular comic is only one example or symptom of what are pretty thoughtless characterizations of lesbians and gays in the media. So to answer your "so what?", I would say that portrayals of sex-obsessed lesbians and gays are not helpful for efforts to deconstruct negative stereotyping of homosexuals in media. They reinforce these stereotypes and, writ large, reflect our current social values and prejudices. If we are going to work toward more a more equitable society, it's important that we recognize this for what it is and learn how to deconstruct it.

[Is it cold in here?]

I pointed out that Tai attempts to strip Faye. I think she actually has hit on Faye before, but I don't even know where in the archives to look. Oh, for a search function...

Some of the strips are searchable via ohnorobot.com. For others, summaries (but not transcripts) are available in jwhouk's awesome article at http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_strip_by_strip .

I can't remember Tai making any passes at Faye, but if you're thinking of Dora, examples are legion, up to and including a boob grab.

All she's done is take off her top

If that were all she did, that would be one thing, but it's highly relevant that she tried to undress a straight woman whom she probably knew to be straight. I think that was meant to be Tai being playful, but if I'd had to live under the threat of people who believe the "recruiting" fantasy, I would take the comic ill.

[mary tyler murder]

Tai continues to make advances on Dora after those advances contributed to the failure of her last relationship.

Surprising nobody, disappointing everybody.

[SirDudley]

Well, this week ended....on an interesting note. The options for Monday are insane.

Will Faye go all-out Adon on Tai? Will Dora put a new shirt on? Will Marten walk in at the wrong time? Will Yelling Bird suddenly appear and make the whole situation even more awkward? Will Jeph finally make a appearance in his own webcomic?

[LoveJaneAusten]

And I think this is a great example of jumping to conclusions against an implication that doesn't exist in the comic. Today's comic is particularly egregious? I can't agree with that statement. Call it whatever you want, but Tai wants to undress while in the company of friends (something perfectly normal, considering the circumstances), and that doesn't turn her into some kind of slut who's one step away from a straight sex encounter. Nor does it mean she's trying to convert straight people. And I especially don't think the strip is speaking to a deeper case of homophobia in the media, or a fear of gay sexuality as a some kind of contagious disease.

If anything, I see your posts as a bizarre, well-intentioned (yet disingenuous) defense of sexuality. I say disingenuous because it seems like even the slightest hint of sexuality with Tai would be met with the same criticism from you. All she's done is take off her top, and it unsettled you to such a degree to provoke this criticism... I really don't know what else to say.

Thank you for not replying sarcastically. I disagree that stereotyped implications don't exist in the comic. Whether they are intentional (or not) or part of Tai's character arc (or not) is kind of immaterial to what this comic is symptomatic of. Namely, a larger trend of certain characterizations of lesbians and gays, a trend (or trope) that in this case actually is harmful to perceptions of lesbians and gays. There are absolutely ways to portray lesbians and gays as sexual that don't fall back onto stereotypes, and such would not be met with the same criticism from me, so no, I don't think I'm jumping at topless Tai disingenuously.

Some of the strips are searchable via ohnorobot.com. For others, summaries (but not transcripts) are available in jwhouk's awesome article at http://questionablecontent.wikia.com/wiki/Questionable_Content_strip_by_strip .

Whoa, thanks for this!

[Is it cold in here?]

(moderator)
Pat yourselves on the back, people! You're all handling a potentially fraught subject civilly.

Good work.
(/moderator)

[Tergon]

This is a pretty good analysis! There is another way a stereotype can be harmful or seen as negative, however, and that is when stereotypes, even ones that appear innocuous, exist in a larger context of portrayals. That is what I've been trying to get across in this discussion. This particular comic is only one example or symptom of what are pretty thoughtless characterizations of lesbians and gays in the media. So to answer your "so what?", I would say that portrayals of sex-obsessed lesbians and gays are not helpful for efforts to deconstruct negative stereotyping of homosexuals in media. They reinforce these stereotypes and, writ large, reflect our current social values and prejudices. If we are going to work toward more a more equitable society, it's important that we recognize this for what it is and learn how to deconstruct it.

But at the same time that's the core of this discussion, no?  Considering the amount of positive characterisation Tai has undergone beyond the fact that she's uninhibited regarding sex, I'd consider this to be simply another facet of her personality and not at all a negative one.  Yet you're claiming that it is.
A character who exists for comedic purposes, who has been written into a form of comedic media in the shape of Questionable Content, is acting in a comedic manner as befits her character.  Yet, because other forms of media have done this, and some of those portrayals were done in a negative light, you choose to take the stance that this is a bad thing for QC to have done.  This despite the fact that the characterisation seen here is not negative and is done for two apparent reasons: One, to set up further development of Tai's character, and two, simply because it's humorous.

I could not agree more that the common portrayal in media of homosexuals in general is negative.  I further agree that this is a bad thing.  I just... don't agree that what we're seeing here is an example of that.  Tai's a well-written and fairly harmless character who took her top off.  She also happens to be a lesbian.  The two things don't have to be related, nor does a connection need to be drawn when that clearly wasn't the author's intent.

[TheEvilDog]

The thing about stereotypes is that there are negative as well as positive aspects about a subgroup that are seen so often that they become the identifying ideas about a people.

For example, I'm a 26 year Irish male. Looking at the negative aspects of stereotyping, I should be a drunken, ignorant lout with about a dozen kids, all the while harping on about going to Mass while eating a mountain of potatoes. Well, straight off, if you went with that, you'd be completely wrong about me, I still have 11 bottles from a 24 box of Heineken in my front room, left over from Christmas. I just don't drink. I have two degrees in Applied Science and Quality Assurance, while serious contemplating on going back to college next year to try and work on an English Degree. I have a girlfriend, but there is no way I can see kids in my future before I'm 30-35. I haven't been to any church service since my best friend's father passed away in 2008. And my diet usually consists of salads, rice, the occasional sushi/Thai dish, supplemented by apples, bananas, grapes, pommegranites, etc.

So, no negative about the Irish people applies to me, or to the vast majority of the people I know, but what about the positive? Are we a people who go out and take the bull by the horns? Yeah, we'll probably be trampled into the dust, but we'll get up and try again. Will we have a 30 minute chat with some stranger we've literally met there and then? Definitely. Will we help someone in need even if we don't have much ourselves? Again, definitely. Are we a people who are always humourous, and willing to make people laugh? Well I definitely do.

The point is, there are two sides to every coin, and that the stereotype of the stereotype being a bad idea, is both pointless and useless. As its been said, there have obviously been people who have led to the creation and formation of a stereotype, but in the end, thats all it is, an idea. In regards to the comic, Tai has always been shown to be a sex mad student, quite willing to have her cake and eat it too ( as an aside, does anyone else feel this saying makes no sense whatsoever? I mean, why have cake but not eat it? Cake is meant to be eaten damnit!), who why is it now, when Tai is alone with Dora and another woman that sudden people are trying to call Jeph out on using a supposed negative stereotype? Jeph has used these archetypial characters before, building them up before tearing them down in an often brutal manner. Example, Sven the (former) manwhore, Faye, the tsundere who would pound someone into dust as soon as their stare stayed a second too long.

[Mr_Rose]

Edit: @LoveJaneAusten; where are you getting "Partner choices: Recruiting straight women preferred" from exactly? Which straight woman do you think Tai is recruiting here? Or if you don't think that's what she's doing, why did you mention it?

I did, actually. I pointed out that Tai attempts to strip Faye. I think she actually has hit on Faye before, but I don't even know where in the archives to look. Oh, for a search function...

And again, what particular of this indicates that she is attempting to 'recruit' Faye? A woman she's shown no physical interest in beyond as a heat source?
As opposed to a panicked "oh shit that could be construed as flirting and I'm not ready for Dora to know about my crush, how do I balance this out?" reaction gone horribly wrong?

[LoveJaneAusten]

I could not agree more that the common portrayal in media of homosexuals in general is negative.  I further agree that this is a bad thing.  I just... don't agree that what we're seeing here is an example of that.  Tai's a well-written and fairly harmless character who took her top off.  She also happens to be a lesbian.  The two things don't have to be related, nor does a connection need to be drawn when that clearly wasn't the author's intent.

Tai did more than take her top off; she also tried to take Faye's top off. I find that to be a troubling example of a sex-obsessed lesbian. Whether Jeph intended to make her a stereotype or not, or being unwilling to see the connection between Tai's example and a host of common characterizations of gays and lesbians in the media, doesn't change the fact that she is. Alone, she would be a harmless character. In a greater media context, she serves as a further entrenchment of lesbian stereotypes. I don't think that this is what Jeph intended, personally, but it is there, irrespective of intention.

And again, what particular of this indicates that she is attempting to 'recruit' Faye? A woman she's shown no physical interest in beyond as a heat source?
As opposed to a panicked "oh shit that could be construed as flirting and I'm not ready for Dora to know about my crush, how do I balance this out?" reaction gone horribly wrong?

There really is no denying that Tai is often shown trying to instigate encounters with straight women, or women she believes to be bi or gay.

[LoveJaneAusten]

Some friends are comfortable being naked or teasing or undressing each other, and some aren't. That's the point. It's a strip that reveals each character's comfort zones, not "harmful to perceptions of lesbians and gays."



What kind of questionable content, then? Again, considering the circumstances, I'm curious what wouldn't result in a critical reaction. Is this only a bad thing because Tai's gay? Because Tai's gay and Faye's straight? What if Faye was gay and Tai was straight, or if they both were of the same orientation? Would any of these be negative portrayals of stereotypes? How can you safely portray a topless Tai interacting with Dora and Faye without crossing the boundaries of your harmful perceptions? I can think of a lot of things Tai could do to live up to terrible stereotypes, but this situation still doesn't fit in my mind as terrible or egregious or symptomatic of a greater societal problem ^^

The strip is definitely about comfort zones. This doesn't mean it doesn't participate in perpetuating harmful stereotypes of lesbians in media. It wouldn't be hard at all to have a character like Tai not be a stereotype! All Jeph would have to do is not assign her lesbian cliches and show her actively destabilizing common media myths about lesbians. So far, she hasn't functioned for that very much at all, as far as I can tell. She really is a lot like a caricature in many ways. Not all ways, but many.

See, comments like these are why it's hard for me to understand you, and why I say you're jumping to conclusions. Taking off a friend's top ≠ sex-obsessed lesbian in my mind!

Tai is hypersexualized in QC. That's one of her prime character traits. Trying to take Faye's top off is only one example.

[tomart]

 Today's comic is... actually pretty standard, for her.  And if you've never had that one crazy friend who pulls shenanigans at every turn - maybe not at this standard, but stil

People are different, some more than others... it's part of the fun of life, and webcomix

- then all I can say is that you must live in a very open-minded monastery to allow you free internet access like this.

One of The BEST. LINES. EVAR. !!!!  

[shiroihikari]

Nudity and sexuality aren't exactly the same thing.  Related, yes, but not the same.  

[cesariojpn]

Will Jeph finally make a appearance in his own webcomic?

He did, once, in a strip about him resorting to crass methods of attracting viewership. Fanservice and all that junk.

[jwhouk]

And yet, I'm still considering the comment that Penelope made long ago in 1037:

Pen: "I knew a couple of girls in college who would get all up on each other any time they smoked. Or got drunk. Or did coke."
Faye: "I think you're mistaking bisexuality for substance abuse."
Pen: "I think THEY were."

[Cartilage Head]

 Tai consistently makes me feel uncomfortable. I can never shake the idea that Tai's antics would be completely unacceptable were she a male, whereas they are considered good-natured and funny in that she is female (though, given her sexuality, her gender makes her no less lecherous and creepy.)

[Carl-E]

Well, her actions are being taken in a very not-good-natured way by Faye in the last panel, and I think that's the point.  Yes, many of the readers may be saying "Oh, that's just Tai", but she's making the others uncomfortable, and has before (sucker rule). 

And yes, as a straight male with many lesbians in my life, I have to side with LoveJaneAusten about the stereotype.  But I think part of the problem is that the comic, as a standalone, can almost only be read in the light of that stereotype; whereas with the rest of Tai's actions through the comic, as several people pointed out, this is not all that out of line for Tai's character. 

It's unfortunate, but thinking of her as a person makes her one of those people who perpetuate such a stereotype; but as a character, she's the creation of an artist who then has to be accountable for the fact that he's carrying the stereotype forward. 

However, and I forget who made this point, we don't know the fallout of all this yet, and knowing Jeph, there will be an interesting twist to this, developing Tai well beyond her stereotypical behaviour. 

Patience, all. 

[Boomslang]

I think Tai is trying to cover for her embarrassment by trying to re-characterize it, rather than being predatory.

The thing is, Faye is uniquely inhibited among those in her social circle (excepting Hanners, but that's a different issue). If Tai has tried to remove, say, Raven's shirt, then silliness would have ensued rather than rage.