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Bird Care

YAYYY SWET-TITS!!!!

"You sly dog, you."

"That is some Keyser Soze shit, dude."

"Elliot called me up out of the blue"

"Nice going, Keyser-"

"Dude, shut UP"

"YOU told him to tell me?"

Close up on the hands.

"Anyway, wanna go dancing this friday?"

Whiplash!!!

"...and for SOME REASON, you're SAD ABOUT THIS."

"I don't know how to dance!"

**SMACK**

"Well well, look who it is."

"For your INFORMATION, some of us have BETTER THINGS TO DO than just play VIDEO GAMES all the-"

"What have you done to me"

[pwhodges]

Oh Steve, do shut up!

[Random Al Yousir]

Steve is reliable, isn't he?

On a totally different topic: When you pronounce the Heavy Metal Umlaut Ö as it is written, like in Motörhead or Keyser Söze, it really sounds naff and silly.  

[Nathanyel]

On a totally different topic: When you pronounce the Heavy Metal Umlaut Ö as it is written, like in Motörhead or Keyser Söze, it really sounds naff and silly.  

Then again, when you write it with a normal o, "Keyser Soze" sounds really funny to a German

[Random Al Yousir]

That's of course true, too.   

Oh, I forgot: D'aaw.  Poor Elliot.

Padme appears to be genuinely thick, in the end.  I am surprised, all the time I was thinking she's just horsing around with the guys.

[Skaltura]

On a totally different topic: When you pronounce the Heavy Metal Umlaut Ö as it is written, like in Motörhead or Keyser Söze, it really sounds naff and silly.  

Then again, when you write it with a normal o, "Keyser Soze" sounds really funny to a German

Kaisersoße, the sauce that will make an emperor of you yet!

It also sounds vaguely like a spunk pun, in lieu of happy batter and euphoria fluid.

On topic: Why does Padma feel like a bitch and is troubled by the fact she does not feel about Elliot the same as he does? I feel like that would be an overreaction, but then, I am not schooled in the ways of romance like a normal person.

[VonKleist]

Now comes the delicious, juicy drama

Everyone feels bad for Elliot and for themselves and so it goes

[Delator]

Jeez...by phone, Elliot?

I mean, I understand the reasoning...but, just....buh.

[snubnose]

Padme appears to be genuinely thick, in the end.  I am surprised, all the time I was thinking she's just horsing around with the guys.

Uh-hu.

Now what gave you THAT idea ?!?

[Random Al Yousir]

I have no idea.

Maybe I just wanted to see a new, hilarious twist unfold.

[WAYF]

"How could I have been so oblivious"

Wonder how Padma would have reacted if at the end Marten had said "No, I mean, how's the new coffee going?"?

Nailed it.


And by the way, Steve has a really inappropriate dedication to being Marten's wing-man. I can't be the only person who's noticed this, surely? It's been most/basically all of his behaviour since #1800.

[Skewbrow]

On a totally different topic: When you pronounce the Heavy Metal Umlaut Ö as it is written, like in Motörhead or Keyser Söze, it really sounds naff and silly.  

Then again, when you write it with a normal o, "Keyser Soze" sounds really funny to a German

Without umlaut you would have a hard time finding it on a Swedish/Finnish phonebook (ĊÄÖ come after Z in the alphabet over here, but IIRC in Germany A/Ä, O/Ö and U/Ü are equal for the purposes of sorting words/names).

Jeez...by phone, Elliot?

I mean, I understand the reasoning...but, just....buh.

May I propose a theory that a generous dose of liquid courage was needed for Elliot to make that call? So we can write it off as yet another "It seemed like a good idea at the time." Calling in sick fits.

[Nathanyel]

Yup, afaik e.g. A and Ä are equivalent in sorting, unless directly clashing with each other (Bar/Bär) in which case the one with A comes first.

[Near Lurker]

Fuck "Bayesian" analysis without an established mathematical model; it just lends the illusion of rigor to intuitive educated guesses.

Also, Marten, you fucking idiot.

[Skewbrow]

Yup, afaik e.g. A and Ä are equivalent in sorting, unless directly clashing with each other (Bar/Bär) in which case the one with A comes first.

Thanks for the confirmation! We treat V and W that way (in names only, 'W' does not exist in words native to Finnish). I was somewhat impressed when I noticed that MSExcel has no trouble whatsoever taking all of the above into account when sorting cells with text in them.

Hopefully the understandably mostly disinterested North American forumites have been sound asleep during the umlaut discussion?

[Random Al Yousir]

I suspect it won't help much to make up for the ostentatious snores of us Non-USsies during the baseball discussion.

[Mr. Doctor]

Ugh, Steve please just shut the hell up already.
I don't know if it's just me but Steve seems to be that kind of friend that sooner or later will get a punch in the face.

[Border Reiver]

Or at least a smack to the back of the head.

[Tova]

And yet, that last panel is strangely hilarious.

Is it because the rest of the comic is a bit of a downer, or in spite of it?

[gangler]

If it wasn't Marten Steve would have gotten a punch in the face ages ago. He's also the kind of friend where you'll both laugh about it later though.

[jwhouk]

And by the way, Steve has a really inappropriate dedication to being Marten's wing-man. I can't be the only person who's noticed this, surely? It's been most/basically all of his behaviour since #3.

FTFY. 

[Soulsynger]

Such pretty blue eyes Marten has... WHATs with me and eyes lately?

Why is everyone giving Marten such a hard time anyway? How was he supposed to know Elliot would pull a cannonball?

*kicks Steve in the groin* Nice back-friend-stab, dude. oO

@gangler:
Haha! I can hear the muffled toothless bar-conversation now.
"Good punf, dude, good punf."

[themacnut]

Yep, I figured nothing good would come of Elliot confessing his feelings to Padma. It was already entirely too late, and now the level of awkward in tSB will be very high until Padma leaves. Nice going Marten.

Hopefully Elliot learns the life lesson to not wait so damn long next time.

[stoutfiles]

Yep, I figured nothing good would come of Elliot confessing his feelings to Padma. It was already entirely too late, and now the level of awkward in tSB will be very high until Padma leaves. Nice going Marten.

Hopefully Elliot learns the life lesson to not wait so damn long next time.

Elliot was going to feel bad regardless of what he did, at least this way he gets to move on right now.  Best to just pull the bandaid off in one quick stroke.  The best solution though would be move on when you get zero signs that she likes you when flirting.  Girls will make it somewhat obvious if you bother to look.  Had he said he liked her sooner he would have just had an awkward situation where he has to continue working with her.

The lesson is to flirt and act upon the signs you're given.  If none, move on and test for signs in the future if so inclined.  Sitting around moping about it makes you uneasy, desperate, depressed, or some combination of all three.  Be confident and look elsewhere, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

[Akima]

This is why I thought Elliot telling Padma how he felt at this point would be rank selfish self-indulgence. Way to make her feel bad/uncomfortable at a time when she's probably already a bit stressed. And for what? It was all about you wasn't it, Elliot? Marten should have known better. I'm disappointed in both of them. 

[Paranoid]

I for one agree with Marten's advice.  At least now Elliot has finally gotten it off of his chest, and because Marten is not a Keyser Soze wannabe I see no reason why he won't take the time to calm Padma down and assure her that she doesn't have to feel bad for not reciprocating Elliot's feelings.  Things won't be completely back to normal in the Secret Bakery, but it's not like the norm there was particularly healthy to begin with.  Eventually Padma will move away, she and Elliot will forget about each other for the most part, and eventually move on with life.  At least now Elliot has a chance to do his part of that, instead of pinning away at a 'what if?' for who knows how long.

EDIT:  Also, it is just me, or is Padma sounding a little reluctant at the idea of moving away?  Maybe it's not set in stone as Elliot seems to think.

[Akima]

I see no reason why he won't take the time to calm Padma down and assure her that she doesn't have to feel bad for not reciprocating Elliot's feelings.

Oh yeah, that'll work  - if Padma can turn her feelings on and off like light-switches. For a real person, not so much. How come it's OK for Elliot (the guy who is supposed to care for her) to upset Padma, just to make himself  feel better? Women don't have any obligation to provide guys with emotional punching-bags, or to act as unpaid therapists.

[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

Or at least a smack to the back of the head.

So Steve is Tony DiNozzio from NCIS?  (A show I've never actually watched more than five minutes of, but know certain things about  from other sources.  Like Gibbs smacking him in the head regularly.)

[themacnut]

EDIT:  Also, it is just me, or is Padma sounding a little reluctant at the idea of moving away?  Maybe it's not set in stone as Elliot seems to think.

If moving plans weren't set in stone before, they will be shortly. Padma would end up moving away just to escape the awkwardness between them.

How come it's OK for Elliot (the guy who is supposed to care for her) to upset Padma, just to make himself  feel better? Women don't have any obligation to provide guys with emotional punching-bags, or to act as unpaid therapists.

Somehow I doubt very much that Elliot feels better having confirmed that he most likely NEVER had a shot with Padma. And as for that "unpaid therapists" thing, I hope you're not implying that men should NEVER tell their wife or girlfriend when they're feeling sad or angry or depressed, 'cause that's where that line of thinking leads.

[Mr. Doctor]

I'm disappointed in both of them.  

Why? I really don't get the "Nice going Marten ". I fail to see how it is his fault.
Oh yeah, he told Elliot that it would be best to get it off his chest, he could have said to Elliot to jump off a bridge as well. It will be totally Marten's fault,right? Marten shouldn't feel bad because another person did a wrong thing in a shitty time... It's not like he forced Elliot to do it. I think that dude is big enough to have his own decisions.

[snubnose]

What I btw really, really, really dont get is how MARTEN had missed before that ELLIOT was interested in Padma.

Thats how he's telling it Steve in yesterdays comic, anyway.

As I assume Marten isnt totally thick, he must have figured that out when Elliot was angry that Marten would join their trip to nature.

He also repeatedly shows signs he's aware that Elliot is into Padma.

Yet yesterdays comic tells it as if Marten only knew it after Elliot explicitly said it out loud.

[snubnose]

I see no reason why he won't take the time to calm Padma down and assure her that she doesn't have to feel bad for not reciprocating Elliot's feelings.

Oh yeah, that'll work  - if Padma can turn her feelings on and off like light-switches. For a real person, not so much. How come it's OK for Elliot (the guy who is supposed to care for her) to upset Padma, just to make himself  feel better? Women don't have any obligation to provide guys with emotional punching-bags, or to act as unpaid therapists.

Err ... what again ?!?!?

I assume that must be an example of the truely weird way asian people think, or sometimes think.

Because you execute there exactly that kind of weird logic that is found in this weird movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" where two lovers who are perfectly in love with each other, neither of them married, do not admit it to each other because of ... well I cant remember, it was some really weird social conventions. Some weird way to prove they are really in love with each other and it would be somehow "selfish" to admit it even if nobody benefits from this not admitting in the first place.

I didnt get that one too well, either.

But why again am I not supposed to tell a woman I'm in love with that I am, well, in love with her ?

And of course - Elliot doesnt tell Padma that he loves her because he wants to feel better. He has of course hope that she might love him back ! Thats why he feels better - he at least tried, even if he failed. I really cant see this as selfish. I think love is the most unselfish thing a person can do.

[Paranoid]

Seriously?  First off, Elliot may not feel better about finding out there was no chance with Padma now, but later he will appreciate it.  As someone who's 'been there, done that' I'd like to think I speak from experience.  Secondly, this is a good thing for Padma in the long run as well.  Yes, she feels shitty now, but at least she's finally aware of her obliviousness and how it hurts people.  Does anyone here remember strip 1906?  Yeah.  Anyway, back to Elliot: Yes I know Padma doesn't have romantic feelings for Elliot, but it's also obvious that she does have feelings of a friendship kind towards him.  It seems to me her issue is less that she isn't in love with Elliot back and more about how she didn't notice his feelings earlier so she could defuse them safely.  Finally, as Mr. Doctor pointed out, Elliot is capable of making his own decisions.  Marten can give advice based on his perspective, but only Elliot is qualified to determine if that perspective applies in his case.

Ultimately, the situation is entirely of Elliot's and Padma's making.  Elliot should have said something sooner, Padma shouldn't have been so oblivious, and now (thanks to Marten) they've both learned from their mistakes and can apply their new found wisdom to future situations as needed.  Not exactly a win-win, but it's progress IMHO.

[Nathanyel]

but at least she's finally aware of her obliviousness and how it hurts people.  Does anyone here remember strip 1906?

Also, #1865 and #1866

[Carl-E]

I think that dude (Elliot) is big enough to have his own decisions.

This is not about his size...  

Oh yeah, that'll work   - if Padma can turn her feelings on and off like light-switches. For a real person, not so much. How come it's OK for Elliot (the guy who is supposed to care for her) to upset Padma, just to make himself  feel better? Women don't have any obligation to provide guys with emotional punching-bags, or to act as unpaid therapists.

Err ... what again ?!?!?

I assume that must be an example of the truely weird way asian people think, or sometimes think.

Because you execute there exactly that kind of weird logic that is found in this weird movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" where two lovers who are perfectly in love with each other, neither of them married, do not admit it to each other because of ... well I cant remember, it was some really weird social conventions. Some weird way to prove they are really in love with each other and it would be somehow "selfish" to admit it even if nobody benefits from this not admitting in the first place.

I didnt get that one too well, either.

But why again am I not supposed to tell a woman I'm in love with that I am, well, in love with her ?

And of course - Elliot doesnt tell Padma that he loves her because he wants to feel better. He has of course hope that she might love him back ! Thats why he feels better - he at least tried, even if he failed. I really cant see this as selfish. I think love is the most unselfish thing a person can do.

Wow, ... Wow.  You really don't  get it, do you?  

1)  It has noithing to do with being asian.  It has more to do with respect for another person and their feelings.  While you're right that he can hope for reciprocation, the negative fallout either way is a good reason not to tell her at this time.  A few months ago would've been better, plans could have changed, less angst on Elliot's part, etc., etc.  Or perhaps later, in a letter or phone call, or during a visit, when life has gone on a bit and both parties can laugh about it.  True love is unselfish, but there are self serving versions too, and when unrequited, it's all in one person's head.  How can that not  be selfish, or at least, self centered?  

2)  Next time you "don't get" something, why not ask, rather than chalking it up to cultural stereotypes?  Instead of expanding your understanding, all you did was display your ignorance.  Don't do that.  It makes you look bad.  

[wrwight]

So, I have to suggest panel 2 of 2031 for caption thread? It totally looks like Steve and Marten could be holding hands, and with (probably) sweet-tits in the background, that could make for some pretty good captioning..just sayin'.

Anyway, today's comic: We know Marten pretty well at this point. Are any of you surprised that he feels it's his fault? I personally would have to agree. Yes, Elliott can make his own decisions, but he has already made the same decision many many times, when he didn't tell her. Marten came along and encouraged him, and then he told. The difference in the equation is Marten. Now, Marten probably wasn't expecting it to go down the way it did, and so perhaps his real error was in how he gave his advice (i.e., he could have encouraged him to tell her as Carl-E suggested, more as an FYI, something like "I know it doesn't matter now, but I had a huge crush on you since..." rather than something that makes her feel like she should reciprocate). Then again, some girls would take the parenthetical suggestion above and feel just as awkward about it. It's all about the people, and Marten doesn't know these people all that well, so he was pretty unqualified to give advice.

[pwhodges]

And if Padma had said "I knew Elliott was pining for someone, but I never guessed it was me so I kept my feelings to myself - now I can tell him how I feel as well!", would everyone still be saying what a bad thing Marten did?  He gave advice; it could have worked out, but it didn't.  Sometimes things roll that way.

[gangler]

You can rely on the kindness of strangers, but you can't rely on their competence. Certainly you can't expect strangers to be functionally oracles. Marten gave some advice to a guy who looked like he needed it. Elliot rolled the dice and got snake eyes. Not that big a deal.

[Throg]

Oh for fuck's sake, snubnose. Asian, hispanic, black -- it's flat-out LAME to confess to someone who's leaving the area 'by the way, I've been in love with you for years. Just wanted to get that off my chest. No, it's okay if you don't love me back. Bye."

Cuz that leaves the woman with NO CLUE about how to respond. Hell, Padma's showing that's she basically a nice person by feeling guilty. A woman would be perfectly justified in being completely creeped out: who knows what mental constructions a guy has in that situation? Everything from simple unrequited longing (the nice end of the spectrum) to mentall living in an imaginary full-on relationship (somewhat creepy/unbalanced) to fantasizing about your co-worker week after week (creepy).

[Monkey Says Yes]

Marten did the right thing.  She's moving, man!  Elliot did a ballsy thing, and maybe next time he meets someone that's awesome, he'll ask her out.

Also, Padma is freaking beautiful.  Jeph, you sure do draw pretty girls, man.  I salute you, sir!

Edit: I missed a comic yesterday?  Hurrah, Sweet Tits! 

[vsonics]

On my computer screen at least, our redhead has obviously blue eyes in this comic. Which leads me to believe that she might very well be someone else - in her colored appearance in 1901 Sweet-tit's eyes are green. Of course the bird care book strongly hints to a Yelling Bird reference, and looking over all of the sightings we have her, the eye color hasn't been consistent at all.

Blue:
2031
1858
1919

Green:
1863

Brown:
1184

Either we've got three Sweet-tits lookalikes and we're reading a little bit too much into this or her eyes change colors. Her hair hasn't been very constant either.

Err ... thats why I dont think all these "appearances" are Sweettitts.

Also, brown ? The last comic is simply from much too far distance to still see the color of the iris.

Finally, people can have either blue or green eyes, depending upon the light. Thats actually very common.

You would THINK that you can't tell the color of her eyes in the last one - and, in fact, there is one appearance where the person in question is too far away and the only color in her eyes is grey, which I didn't include - but if you zoom in a great deal and use the eye dropper tool you will find that there are at least two distinct pixels that have different shades of brown in her eyes.

Of course doing that would be creepy and obsessive, so I don't know why you would.

As far as today's comic goes, I still think that being honest about his feelings for Padma was the right thing for Elliot to do. Of course the way he went about it was clearly all wrong - doing it over the phone is bad enough, but then bailing on work the next day? He could have handled the situation much better. Or, you know, a year ago. Hopefully he still has time to pull himself together and patch it all up before she moves.

[Paranoid]

That is a valid point.  I admit Elliot could have handled it better, even given the fact that he doesn't have access to a time machine.  Or so I assume: I'd like to believe that Elliot would have used a time machine if he had one, but then in retrospect I'd like to believe he was smart enough to follow Marten's advice in person instead of over the phone.

[Skewbrow]

Sheesh. Some of you sound like Elliot intentionally made Padma feel miserable, and Marten was supposed to be clairvoyant enough not to give this particular advice, because Elliot might follow it (brushing aside certain sweeping generalizations related to gender or race).

May be Elliot was just left out, when notes about anticipating other people's reactions (like Padma's) were handed out? May be he should have picked it up at some point in his life? Doesn't matter, the fact remains that he had not. Not all of us are experienced in judging situations like this. It comes easily to some, others need more time to learn. People like Elliot (apparently also yours truly?) belong to the latter group of people. Everything points at Elliot being relatively inexperienced when it comes to relationships. How on earth could he ever have learned enough to avoid this mishap?

[Carl-E]

I too get the impression that Elliot is terribly inexperienced in the ways of romance. 

Live and learn! 

[themacnut]

Like I said in my previous posts about this, hopefully Elliot learns from this incident to not wait so long with the next girl he has feelings for. And maybe, as stoutfiles said, learn to flirt a little more with such girls in the future.

[sitnspin]

Paranoid - How does it behoove Padma to notice that Elliot likes her? How is it anyone's responsibility to know when someone else is interested in them? It is on the person who has the crush/lust/romantic interest to make that interest known.  There are no mind readers. If you want someone to respond to your feelings (for good or bad) you have to actually tell them how you feel.

[Wimblesaurus]

Women don't have any obligation to provide guys with emotional punching-bags, or to act as unpaid therapists.

See, the opposite isn't true either, but most women do it even more often anyway, and more insidiously to boot.

[Carl-E]

So I was just thinking...

Padma's reaction to Marten's "townie drama" indicated that she had been a student at one of North Hampton's several schools.  Probably graduated or dropped out, but stayed for the "sweet" job she found at the bakery (pun intended).  

And now, she's in the middle of her own "townie drama".  It's always a shock when you realize that you've overstayed your student years long enough to make the switch from student to townie.  

If Marten were the cruel sort, he could point this out to her (ironically, of course).  But it's pretty clear by those baby blues in the penultimate panel (oooh, I love  it when I can legitimately use that word) that he empathizes too much for that, and as others have pointed out, may well feel partially responsible.  

And, as for Keyser Soze, I prefer John Phillip Soze.  

[Celsian]

Jeez...by phone, Elliot?

I mean, I understand the reasoning...but, just....buh.

So this.

I see no reason why he won't take the time to calm Padma down and assure her that she doesn't have to feel bad for not reciprocating Elliot's feelings.

Oh yeah, that'll work   - if Padma can turn her feelings on and off like light-switches. For a real person, not so much. How come it's OK for Elliot (the guy who is supposed to care for her) to upset Padma, just to make himself  feel better? Women don't have any obligation to provide guys with emotional punching-bags, or to act as unpaid therapists.

There's two sides to this. Sure if Elliot could see the future he'd know that telling her was a bad choice, but he couldn't. He didn't know how she felt and wasn't sure if his feelings would be reciprocated. Where's the harm in trying? Furthermore what right does Padma have to be upset with herself for NOT being interested? That seems silly to me...

Or better said:

And if Padma had said "I knew Elliott was pining for someone, but I never guessed it was me so I kept my feelings to myself - now I can tell him how I feel as well!", would everyone still be saying what a bad thing Marten did?  He gave advice; it could have worked out, but it didn't.  Sometimes things roll that way.

[DSL]

Well, what the hell.
Not surprised Elliott would have broached the subject with Padma by phone; he's been painfully shy up to now and he's not going to,, as was said earlier in this thread, flip it on and off like a switch. There are any number of reasons why a guy the size of Elliott might be diffident-to-a-fault around people, such as it having been demonstrated to him in the past that a guy his size can hurt or intimidate without meaning to just by moving fast or confidently. That's just speculation, though.
Marten? Yes, he became aware Elliott might be sweet on our cute'n'clueless donut lady. And when Elliott wanted to talk but couldn't broach the subject, our hero (maybe in relief at not being pummelled and realizing he might have let something slip about Faye) drew on his own experiences to give a little friendly advice. I speculate it came from the realization he was the passive one in the Marten-Dora shipwreck. (Unless I'm mistaken, he never actually told Dora in words that he loved her -- that we saw -- until after the Underpants Incident).
But most of the time he means well, does our Marten.
Who hasn't said or done something in good faith only to have it blow up? The reactions of Padma and Marten here lead me to think Jeph means for them both to be read as basically decent people who sometimes get it wrong.

[cesariojpn]

One of my old bosses (that I hated) mentioned in a store meeting once that "Relationships on the job was a bad idea." This is a good reason why he was right.