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[dr. nervioso]

So pretty excited for the holidays. Plan is to go to NYC with a stop in DC on the way. I am excited because I have not been to the New England area or whatever you guys want to call it since I was like 8 and went to Martha's Vineyard.

Also, with this trip, I will have been in every major US city. And Toronto. So yeah, gonna be a typical American tourist except less fried food and more wandering around beautiful parks. Alas, I do not think I will be able to stay for New Year's Eve.

So this thread has two purpses:
1. Talk about yur plans for the holiday season.
2. You, as a person who probably knows more about these places than I do, give me beautiful parks and stuff to see.

I do hope that Occupy Wall Street is still there when I visit. That seems like a fun crowd..

[nobo]

Thanksgiving will be spent with my family in Chicago, so that means Christmas with my wife's family. My sister is a senior in high school so I'm thinking Thanksgiving weekend will be spent finishing up college applications. And my in-laws have a time share in Hawaii, so wife and I will be joining her sister + sis's husband and the parents for a week long vacation there.

Unfortunately I have never been to NYC so I cannot give you any advice as to what to see there. But I can suggest you come back to Chicago if you want some real pizza.

[Zingoleb]

Based on the thread title along, I was sure it was going to be a Trollstormur thread.

[Barmymoo]

I haven't been to those places yet either, but let me know what they're like because I'm going in the summer!

My Christmas plans are to spend a few days at the Boy's house, then a few days at my dad's house. The week around Christmas day I'll be at my mum's, and then I'm coming home for New Year and the three weeks before term starts again, so that I can get some work done and enjoy all the Christmassy things here. Mostly that will probably consist of going for walks in the evenings to enjoy the winter light. I don't get time to do that during term.

I've already started shopping, because I came across a hilarious band who sing songs about growing vegetables and their album is perfect for my mum. Now I need something for my dad, my stepdad, my dad's partner, my brother and the Boy. Apart from the Operation Christmas Child shoeboxes I've done, that's it for presents.

Last night I was wondering if there was anything I want/need this year and there really isn't. The only things I would like to have that I don't have are kitchen items that it's impractical to get now (partly because I've already filled my cupboard in the kitchen and had to spill over into someone else's). In general money is always useful but my family don't like to give me money to just pay for things I'd be getting anyway. Which is stupid because it would reduce the amount of debt I'm in, and they don't like that either, but still.

Sorry this turned into an essay!

[dr. nervioso]

I have been to Chicago a couple times. And I have tried deep dish pizza. Now I REALLY want some.

Darn you

[Lupercal]

Theres a pizza joint up Bleecker St (Greenwich Village) that you HAVE to try (apparently simply called "Bleecker Street Pizza"). That area is home to Washington Square Park and Cafe Wha? too. Go to them all!

Christmas plans are never usually that crazy, they're similar most years. I'm going to spend Christmas day with my family, boxing day with extended family, and the 27th will be seeing my girlfriend and her family I suppose, if not on Christmas Eve. (I swear, Sainsburys, I better not be working on Christmas Eve AGAIN this year, grr)

[Josefbugman]

Hopefully I'll be working at Tatton Park for much of the Christmas period, then the annual party at my friend Natalies house on the 23rd, then at home for Christmas on the 25th and having the whole family over from the 26th till about the 29th.

Then after that, New Years, which is always a ridiculous evening in my opinion.

The only problem with all of this is the fact that my mum and dad both have their birthdays in November and January. Which means 3 months of gifting.

[schimmy]

Holy shit, you'll be working at Tatton Park? What'll you be doing?

My christmas plans are pretty much the same every year. On Christmas day, I'll be at my dad's house, where we eat posh ice cream for breakfast, then I go with my siblings to the pub to get drunk, and then come back in time to eat whatever my step-mum hasn't burnt or dropped on the floor.
On boxing day we have a much more classy christmas dinner at my mum's house, where my step-dad is too obsessive about cooking to allow anything to go wrong.

Oh, and the whole holiday will involve an awful lot of my (fundamentalist christian) sister talking about the True Meaning Of Christmas whilst the rest of my (strongly anti-religious) family try avoid getting into arguments with her.

If it snows whilst I'm at my dad's house, I'll probably walk down to Tatton park with either my family or my friends, and have a walk, because that's always fun.

[valley_parade]

Okay just to set yo' ass straight, DC and NYC are not part of New England. New England is the six corner states. Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, and Rhode Island.

I have zero holiday plans as is. Christmas always ends up bumming the shit out of me because fuck capitalism making me feel like I have to have a significant other to buy jewelry or cars with big red ribbons for.

Actually I do have one plan. Christmas Eve, there's usually a big party down at our local Eagles aerie. The families of a lot of people I grew up with are always down there, everyone makes food, and it's a really good time. So there IS that.

[Josefbugman]

Then donate the money to a charity that you would spend on holiday gifts. That'd be a good thing to do.

[valley_parade]

See that's the other thing, I'm pretty much broke.

[Carl-E]

Gaah.  Christmas is always big for us, we decorate the house, and on Christmas eve we host a party for the choir and other musicians at our church.  There's a 5 PM family service wit ha lot of music (handbells, brass choir, soloists...) and then an 11 PM service with less music.  In between, instead of everyone going home or milling about for five hours, we have everyone over because we have a huge late victorian house and live near the church. 

But this year...  well, I was completely  unemployed this summer after being underemployed for the better part of last year.  Mix that with the expenses of my daughter's illness, and you get a house that's in foreclosure.  We're trying to stave it off, it's gonna take every penny.  Mix that with the fact that the church family is starting to crumble (the vestry chose a very  bad new priest, several families have left, the church is in receivership, the choir's half its usual size, etc) and I really don't think there's going to be a party. 

We'll still decoreate, thoughy.  A tree's cheap, and we have the decorations and lights.  No gifts between the wife and I, but we'll get a few things for our daughters. 




Ho, ho, fucking ho. 

[Josefbugman]

In which case don't freakin listen to the propaganda. Your a thinking person aren't you?

Jesus christ Carl... The very best of luck is all I can wish you.

[Jimmy the Squid]

For Christmas this year I imagine I will be spending a few uncomfortable hours with my girlfriend's family whom for the most part I dislike, then I'll see my dad's side of the family for dinner and presents and such on Christmas Eve, then on Christmas Day I'll be at my mum's place where there will be lots of yelling and fighting and mum telling me that I'm going to hell and my brother getting increasingly drunk because he's not capable of dealing with our stupid family problems. On Boxing Day I'll probably go to my Great Aunt's place for lunch which will be awesome because I love her and her cooking (and I only see her once a year).

It's probably going to be pretty awkward this year because this is first time my extended family is going to see my tattoos and they've always assumed that I'm very conservative. Ah well.

[Josefbugman]

Does no-one here have just a happy family Christmas where the only problem is the occasionally burnt set of carrots?

[dr. nervioso]

I do. But instead of carrots, my brother and his girlfriend burnt the pudding.

Also I got my chicago-style pizza today.

[Barmymoo]

My Christmas will be nice! Almost entirely because I've carefully limited it to no more than a week with any one person and a lot of flexibility about escaping to the next person if necessary. There might be a bit of tension at my dad's because everyone's quite high-drama but it should still be fairly pleasant. And although I get a bit overwhelmed by the size of my stepdad's family (three sisters, each with two children, each with a partner and most with at least one child of their own), they're all very lovely. Sort of like syrup.

[Zingoleb]

I just realized that this is going to be my first Christmas without my family.

Awesome.

[Josefbugman]

-sigh- You guys have strange and worrisome christmases.

Just try and have fun, and remember to pick up some charity shop christmas cards. I know that's what I am doing for the annual "Which bugger do I need to send this to now" christmas card sending.

[Barmymoo]

I don't send Christmas cards of any kind. I try to avoid receiving them as well.

Josef, I don't think you can say it's strange and worrisome that young adults find it hard to return to their families for Christmas without some level of drama and anxiety. It's perfectly normal for it to be awkward to keep an old tradition going when people have changed almost beyond recognition. I have lived away from my parents for long enough that I've developed new habits, new beliefs, new patterns of living, and it is just as hard for me to go back to the old ones (many of which I gave up because I found them illogical or intolerable) as it is for them to accept me as I am now, rather than as I was at the age of 10. A perfect example of this is that since I moved out of my dad's house nearly five years ago, I have started going to church. This is a huge, huge, huge problem for my incredilbly atheist father. Christmas for me and Christmas for them mean completely different things and it is just an issue. Why is it strange that I would want to avoid that issue and just enjoy seeing them for a little while?

I'm an adult now, and I want to celebrate Christmas and New Year in my own way. We all develop lives that suit us, and it's not always easy to fit other people back into them. All holidays present this difficulty, because we all have set and varied ideas about how they should go.





Annnnyyyhoooooow, let's talk about decorating! I love Christmas decorations, although I was rather surprised to see that the Christmas lights are up and switched on in Cambridge town centre already.

[Josefbugman]

People don't change "almost beyond recognition" though. People like to think that they have (or in some cases actually HOPE that they have) but it never seems activly difficult for people to say "hello!" for a couple of days and make small talk without (say) mentioning cousin Sammy's failed marriage. And perhaps a bit of good natured debate is encouragable, as long as it doesn't get into a fight and no-one has had too much to drink.

Besides what are you defining as "young adult?" 20-35? 16-24? People who have seperate jobs and housing but are unattached? Its a rather vague term to be drawing from.

I more meant "worrisome" in the case that I am worried that you guys won't enjoy it. A number of people just seem a lot less pleased about the opportunity to see the family again and just seem to be aggrieved by their families. I like people enjoying themselves, especially with family and its just a little "sigh" worthy to be honest.



And yes the lights are already up around here, and the local shops are exchanging the halloween and fireworks for the christmas stuff yet again.

[JD]

I only have socialist christmases

[Josefbugman]

I assume that all of the decorations in your house are Red, and you get to listen to the USSR's national anthem on repeat instead of the usual christmas songs?

TBH I think that that would be preferable than listening to Slade one more time.

[valley_parade]

-sigh- You guys have strange and worrisome christmases.

Just try and have fun, and remember to pick up some charity shop christmas cards. I know that's what I am doing for the annual "Which bugger do I need to send this to now" christmas card sending.

We're not a 50's TV special, man. What do you expect?

[Josefbugman]

I dunno, people gettting together at Christmas, having some fun, exchanging presents and talking a lot about hope for the future.

That and/or drinking a great deal, having some minor row thats been going on for decades having a brief airing, enjoying but feeling slightly cossetted by the family atmosphere and feeling a bit greatful when everyone leaves.

It might not be a '50's ideal, but I just sort of expect families to be civil, give presents, make jokes and have a bit of fun. Apparently such a thing is rarer than I thought amongst people here.

Oh yes and as I minor thing I don't mean "strange" as a bad thing, just as an unfamiliar thing, and I already (hopefully) explained worrisome.

[Barmymoo]

Well sure we give presents, make jokes, are civil, it's just that we're realistic about it - it's time-limited. In my case I can take up to a week. In some cases two hours is easily enough. Family is accidental, you don't always get along.

[Josefbugman]

Again, to me thats a bit strange as the part of the family that I meet (my mums side) gets along very well. I don't meet my dads side as much because they are a bit busy with themselves as they have all got grown up children and are usually in the al garve at this time of year.

[Zingoleb]

People don't change "almost beyond recognition" though.

You have no idea how wrong you are right here.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I find it strange that you appear to have a family that likes each other.

EDIT: Ok I just wrote a huge, rambling and inappropriate post of the reasons I hate my mother with reference to specific examples that in hindsight I don't want to share with you guys (no offence but I don't know many of you dudes that well since the exodus). Suffice to say that my family is a drag because everyone basically hates each other which makes things like Christmas almost unbearable for the most part and frankly I wish I could comfortably opt out of the whole thing.

[Josefbugman]

@Zing:

Because people turn into gigantic towers of flesh and bone every evening! I was more meaning that, quite often, people don't change as much as they believe they do. OFC as with most things I seem to have written here, that probably needed some form of explanation, sorry.

@JtS:

I'm very sorry to hear that mate. Is there no chance of them behaving semi-decently with each other?

[Jimmy the Squid]

Nope. On my mum's side there are 6 aunties and uncles with their wives/husbands and children who all have these retarded feuds and alliances over stupid petty shit like who misunderstood what at a party 15 years ago. On my dad's side there is just my dad and my aunt but my dad hates his sister and always goes out of his way to be mean to her despite the fact that her life isn't great because her kids treat her like shit and her husband it turns out has emphysema. No one is capable of being civil to each other for more than about 5 minutes.

[Carl-E]

Time to build yerself a new family.  

Now, I'm not advocating this, but I've not seen family for christmas since I had kids.  Christmas is about the kids (least it always was in my family), and so everyone understood when we decided to stay at home and celebrate with the kids (and other friends, of course) instead of travelling to see them.  

Of course, since college I've always lived a fair distance from most family members - that helps a lot, too...


Edited to add a Christmas story...

It was 40 years ago this Christmas that my then youngest brother (there would be another), at the tender age of 3, awoke before anyone else, went downstairs, and upon seeing the tree with all the gifts started christmas without us.  Of course he couldn't read the labels, and didn't really care - he just unwrapped everything and left it in a huge pile of gifties in the middle of the floor.  My father, upon seeing this, dubbed him "The Grinch" because he stole everyone's Christmas. 

It stuck. 

At 43, we still all call him "Grinch" instead of "Chris" when we're all together.  Especially  when he's being a piss-ant, which is most of the time...  There's probably some deep scarring psychological damage in there somewhere, but you know, it's family.   

[schimmy]

I did that, too! Man was I pissed when Santa got me a Barbie for Christmas.

[Lupercal]

Hopefully I'll be working at Tatton Park for much of the Christmas period, then the annual party at my friend Natalies house on the 23rd, then at home for Christmas on the 25th and having the whole family over from the 26th till about the 29th.

Then after that, New Years, which is always a ridiculous evening in my opinion.

The only problem with all of this is the fact that my mum and dad both have their birthdays in November and January. Which means 3 months of gifting.

Have that problem in terms of having my mother's birthday in September (also started last year of Uni so money was/is tight), brother's birthday in October, girlfriend turns 21 in November, I turn 21 in January, we have our 4 year anniversary on New Years Day. So its kind of a nice little (at least) 3 month intense shopping trip, or thinking of presents I want people to give me JUST after Christmas. I don't know if anyone's tried this, but I like to think we become slightly less materialistic with age and therefore after Christmas happens i'm good for another few months if not another year. But having to think of 21st birthday presents 2 weeks after Christmas is a bit of a difficult decision.

[Barmymoo]

I can't think of anything I want for Christmas. The only things that I want but don't consider essential enough to have to buy them myself are a Mason Cash mixing bowl (impractical thing to own when you're homeless), a gold cross (not something I can ask for from any of my non-religious family) and more special/limited edition copies of classic children's literature to add to my rather small collection (again impractical when homeless).

So I guess maybe what I want for Christmas is legitimately some nice warm socks?

[Josefbugman]

Maybe you should ask for some coinage?

[Barmymoo]

For some incomprehensible reason my family, or at least my immediate family, do not like giving me money as a gift if they know it will be spent on rent and food. Apparently those things are not really presents.

[Zingoleb]

I remember one time I had a discussion with my grandmother who wanted to spend fifty dollars on me for Christmas, but what I really needed was...fifty dollars. She was claiming you couldn't wrap money, but she instead could buy a Wal-mart gift card and wrap that instead. I thought about it and asked her for a new wallet - she could put the rest of the money in the wallet and wrap that, instead! She thought about this for a long moment before suddenly exclaiming, "I know! I could put the gift card in your wallet!"

[schimmy]

Since starting uni, I can't decide whether I am in favour of receiving money as a gift any more. It just instantly goes on alleviating a little bit of the debt that I am in. This is, of course, extremely useful, but it feels like I'm not really getting a present, and I'm not even sure it helps all that much - when I'm a few hundred pounds into my overdraft, is it really worth not getting anything for Christmas just so I can have less debt?
On the other hand, I am goddamn awful at knowing what I want for Christmas. I feel like a chump asking for CDs or DVDs - these things are free normally, why would you pay for them?! But when you take out media consumption, my only real expenses turn out to be rent, food and utility bills, which brings us back to money as a present.

It doesn't really bother me much though. What I like about Christmas is that it's the only time of year that I get to spend any time at all with my family now that all my siblings are either at uni, or graduated and living in the Real World, far away from me.

[Barmymoo]

The gift side of christmas I find frankly impossible to handle. My mum's approach for the last few years has been to buy me something which I need at any time of the year, and designate it my Christmas present, which is much easier. This year I'm getting some walking boots which were on sale in about August. My dad buys me junk that has no function but is mildly amusing (cow-patterned stuff, mostly, as Jens could attest if he ever came here any more). My brother went through a phase of not buying anything at all, and then had a spending spurge and bought me a whole bunch of kitchen utensils this summer as my 17th-20th birthday presents and all the christmases in there. Much better. It's all the grandparents and aunts and uncles who are the issue because I can't just say to them "forget it, I don't want anything" or they'll be offended but I really don't! Especially not a fluffy light-up pink glitter pen. Take note, aunts.

[Carl-E]

What, you're not 11 any more? 

[Barmymoo]

Ironically the glittery pen was from an aunt who didn't even know me when I was 11 - we met when I was nearly 17. But this is the set of relatives who between them managed to give my mum two identical foot massage sets. If you'd met my mum you'd know she wasn't the foot massage type. They're well-meaning but totally deluded about what we'd like to receive!

[TRVA123]

One Christmas, when my mom was a kid, The family woke up to discover that all of her brothers presents had been replaced with coal. It was very mysterious.

[Akima]

Christmas? Meh...  I'm looking forward to 23rd January 2012 and the Year Of The Dragon!  Chinese people have no difficulty wrapping money, and "Red Packets" (红包 hóng bāo) of cash are traditional festival gifts.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Akima: Proving once again that Chinese people are way better than everyone else.


Not ripping on you, I legitimately prefer Chinese New Year celebrations to Christmas.

[Barmymoo]

I was in Paris for Chinese New Year last year and the parade was brilliant, I loved it. Much better than any new year celebrations in the UK, which seem to consist of drinking a year's worth of alcohol in one go and vomiting on things.

[Zingoleb]

But if I give you money, and you give me money, then we're just kind of even?

[Lupercal]

Money seems weird and impersonal. I guess after 2 years of Uni I could've asked for money, but I'm a little materialistic and like to HAVE things. But this year I'm getting a Kindle I think, which will definitely save a lot of money from getting books (mostly classics) that I have to buy for my course. "Ulysses" etc will be free, so yeah. Money saved? And trees saved. Although I like to actually have a physical book too, but that is for the ebook discussion somewhere else.

I think I enjoy buying presents more than I like receiving them, contrary to what I just wrote. I mean since I've been back at studying, my xbox has turned into a dvd player, and the only thing i seem to be spending money on is clothes every once in a while and guitar strings. I like giving, especially when you can see the reaction of said family member when you get them something they didn't even ask for. Oh yeah, foresight.

[Zingoleb]

And trees saved.

I've been curious as to how much is saved by eBooks. You'd have to count the production of a book vs. the production of the Kindle, aka trees, water, the chemicals used for processing paper, shipping, and ink, versus all the plastics/metals/chips and whatnot that goes into a eBook reader. I should go look into this - at what point (how many books does it take) is there less environmental impact from buying an eBook reader as opposed to buying paper books?

[dr. nervioso]

I think that an ebook is really better for the environment. I mean sure, an ebook costs a decent amount of resources, but considering it can hold hundreds of books one would otherwise use paper for every single book.

So your choices are
Ebook: A single blow to the environment. Though larger, it spares resources that would be used for regular books.
Regular books: Multiple blows.

So it really depends on how much an individual reads. The more books they read, they more benefit they are giving to the environment.

Though, if producers take the fucking apple route and turn into dicks and release new ebooks once every freakin' six months, the benefit will kinda be cancelled out