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MARTY. DANCEY. NOW.

1 (0.9%)

I'll have one of whatever he was...

0 (0%)

SAVE YOURSELF!

0 (0%)

Make it two.

2 (1.7%)

That's it, lil' bird. Spread your wings and fly!

2 (1.7%)

...Straight into a jet engine.

2 (1.7%)

Dual Conversations!

1 (0.9%)

Magnets or double-sided tape?

3 (2.6%)

"I always just REACT to things, you know?"

1 (0.9%)

The "does this dress make me look fat" thing

2 (1.7%)

DJ Tai Fighter does good!

0 (0%)

Secret Wine!

1 (0.9%)

Keep you up all night with his mischief.

2 (1.7%)

Hanners Muzzles Faye!

10 (8.5%)

YELLING!

14 (12%)

Band Talk.

0 (0%)

Oh, who are we kidding? TEH KISSES!!!!!!!!!11!!!

76 (65%)

Total Members Voted: 108

[Akima]

Any men who have reached the age of majority without understanding why some women ask "does this dress make me look fat", and learning how to respond appropriately, deserve to have their genetic line peter out. It's not like there isn't a whole library of books out there on the subject. Pro tip: She isn't asking for information, and whether the dress really makes her look fat or not is completely irrelevant. But you knew that already, right? Honestly, I wonder why men who expect women to think and express themselves just like men (despite the fact that for thousands of years we have been punished from childhood on if we did), and apparently have such withering contempt for us, spend any time with us at all*. Wouldn't a life of beer, football and masturbation be cheaper and easier than putting up with people you dislike so much? The misogynism revealed by some of the postings in this thread is really depressing.

*Yes, the answer to this question is obvious. A big part of the reason why women ask these loaded questions is because we want to know if guys' interest and investment in us actually extends a little further than that. It's nice to know that a guy actually likes you. You know, rather than seeing you as some kind of sinister, manipulative, barely-tolerable monster?

[Akima]

I really liked the way Jeph drew the strip, with the two parallel lines of conversation. The body-language of the characters is very nicely done. Am I a total fangirl? Don't answer that!

[jwhouk]

I really liked the way Jeph drew the strip, with the two parallel lines of conversation. The body-language of the characters is very nicely done. Am I a total fangirl? Don't answer that!

See, always asking questions we can't answer.

[DSL]

He seems to be looking to stretch himself again, though I think we might see more of a steady progression than some of the radical style shifts he's done in the past. He's done the parallels and the Shakespearean background comedy before, and I'd been missing that. Good to see it again..

[westrim]

Any men who have reached the age of majority without understanding why some women ask "does this dress make me look fat", and learning how to respond appropriately, deserve to have their genetic line peter out. It's not like there isn't a whole library of books out there on the subject. Pro tip: She isn't asking for information, and whether the dress really makes her look fat or not is completely irrelevant. But you knew that already, right? Honestly, I wonder why men who expect women to think and express themselves just like men (despite the fact that for thousands of years we have been punished from childhood on if we did), and apparently have such withering contempt for us, spend any time with us at all*. Wouldn't a life of beer, football and masturbation be cheaper and easier than putting up with people you dislike so much? The misogynism revealed by some of the postings in this thread is really depressing.

*Yes, the answer to this question is obvious. A big part of the reason why women ask these loaded questions is because we want to know if guys' interest and investment in us actually extends a little further than that. It's nice to know that a guy actually likes you. You know, rather than seeing you as some kind of sinister, manipulative, barely-tolerable monster?

But you see, guys are worried that the girl they like is secretly a sinister, manipulative, barely-tolerable monster, as you put it (though that's rather harsh), and asking questions that seems to have no right answer (notice that you don't actually say what it is when denigrating those of us that don't know it) only increases or confirms that worry. We (at least, I) know she isn't just asking for information and the question itself is irrelevant- that's why it bugs us. We (at least, I) just want a straightforward question that we can answer honestly.

[gangler]

Honestly, before this moment I didn't realize difficulties with intergender interactions were the exclusive domain of men, nor did I realize that such was grounds for accusations of prejudice. Here I thought this was just perfectly normal stuff to gripe about. I guess I just imagined all those women complaining about how inexpressive their men were, how stubborn and unwilling to directly ask for help etc etc. I must be off my meds.

[Wagimawr]

Naturally, men want to be asked straightforward questions with straightforward answers but they don't want to point that out all straightforward-like.

[Akima]

Here I thought this was just perfectly normal stuff to gripe about. I guess I just imagined all those women complaining about how inexpressive their men were, how stubborn and unwilling to directly ask for help etc etc. I must be off my meds.

Count the postings in this thread complaining about women. Then count the posts in which there are "all those women complaining" about men. Oh wait, there's only my single posting. The "normality" of this complaining seems rather skewed, don't you think?

See, always asking questions we can't answer.

Hee hee...    On the contrary, it is a question you don't need to answer!

[westrim]

Honestly, before this moment I didn't realize difficulties with intergender interactions were the exclusive domain of men, nor did I realize that such was grounds for accusations of prejudice. Here I thought this was just perfectly normal stuff to gripe about. I guess I just imagined all those women complaining about how inexpressive their men were, how stubborn and unwilling to directly ask for help etc etc. I must be off my meds.

My sarcasm sense is tingling.

Count the postings in this thread complaining about women. Then count the posts in which there are "all those women complaining" about men. Oh wait, there's only my single posting. The "normality" of this complaining seems rather skewed, don't you think?

The topic of discussion was derived from the comic, and about a female foible (that, gender wars aside, happened between two women, so apparently some of them don't "reach the age majority without understanding" and "deserve to have their genetic line peter out" too ), not a male one. Why would there have been complaining about male faults?

[Is it cold in here?]

Here I thought this was just perfectly normal stuff to gripe about. I guess I just imagined all those women complaining about how inexpressive their men were, how stubborn and unwilling to directly ask for help etc etc. I must be off my meds.

Count the postings in this thread complaining about women. Then count the posts in which there are "all those women complaining" about men. Oh wait, there's only my single posting. The "normality" of this complaining seems rather skewed, don't you think?

I took that as a reference to the world outside the forum, where the complaints of any gender against any other are too numerous for me to count.

My sorta-feminist wife doesn't think it's men's fault that women say things like "Does this dress make me look fat?".

It isn't misogyny to complain about mind games. There are women who treat others with more respect than that -- I'm married to one.

[kent_eh]

Pro tip: She isn't asking for information, and whether the dress really makes her look fat or not is completely irrelevant. But you knew that already, right?

Ummm... No I didn't know that. (and, for reference I've been married almost 15 years)

The way us guys simple brains work is:
You ask a question, I answer it as best I can.
You say something's wrong, I try to find a solution to the problem.

Now that second one, I have come to realise (after being blatantly told) is more mis-communication. What's really happening is she wants to talk about what the problem is, and she wants me to listen attentively and shut the hell up.


The bottom line: women and men think about things differently.
Neither is wrong. Just different. Both methods have their benefits. Both are difficult for hte other to fully comprehend.

[Sorflakne]

It isn't misogyny to complain about mind games.

Mind games are utter bullshit.  If you can't be frank, then your relationship has a problem.

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

The way us guys simple brains work is:
You ask a question, I answer it as best I can.
You say something's wrong, I try to find a solution to the problem.

This is so annoying. SO annoying. "Men are simple, straightforward and practical!" Our society definitely has this obsession with being "simple" and not "loving drama" (even though we all totally love drama sometimes.) And the reason women are defined as dramatic I think is leftover from the Freudian days of diagnosing women with unsociable hysteria for, like, maybe wanting a dude to compromise.

People frame it like, "Oh, men are so doofy," but the truth is they're implying they're better, because they're more simple and streamline emotionally than women. And it's just not true. I'm as simple and as drama-hating as the next guy, if not more - it's just when I have feelings, I have to jump through a million hoops to prove they're not PMS.

The bottom line: women and men think about things differently.
Neither is wrong. Just different. Both methods have their benefits. Both are difficult for hte other to fully comprehend.

Men and women are socialised differently. Studies on stereotype threat have shown that when you remind a woman she's a woman, she'll perform crappily on a math test. And a man will fail a test on empathetic responses as soon as he knows the test is about empathy. But people still have people-feelings and relating to them on that level works.

[Tova]

*Yes, the answer to this question is obvious. A big part of the reason why women ask these loaded questions is because we want to know if guys' interest and investment in us actually extends a little further than that.

I think I've gone through about three or four drafts of posts which, sadly, I've ended up having to discard.

I'll just settle for saying that I think that it contains a number of pretty big generalisations, on a topic where I think that the reasons behind the question can be quite diverse. The footnote especially - and btw, if that really is the motivation behind asking the question in particular cases, then I'm really not sure it's a very good way to find out.

[Akima]

I took that as a reference to the world outside the forum, where the complaints of any gender against any other are too numerous for me to count.

Oh absolutely!  And if I wanted to wallow in them, I could go to one of the forums devoted to it. It's depressing though to read the same dreary stuff in this forum. And I'm not sure that it isn't misogyny to complain exclusively about the "mind games" of women.

Like your wife, I don't think it is men's fault that some women say things like "Does this dress make me look fat?" (and that particular question has always struck me as silly).  I do think it is their fault if they make no effort to understand questions like that, or feel entitled to demand that women communicate differently for no other reason than to make life easier for them. This cuts both ways, of course, and I believe women should make the effort to communicate more straightforwardly with men. For me at least, it's a work in progress.

[themacnut]

It does help communication between the genders when one side doesn't expect the other to be mind readers.

[Dust]

I'm getting the feeling I helped tip off the latest drama batch, after my post on loaded questions. I really should have been clarified things, rather than sounding so broad. (Bad word.. Wide? No... Over-generalising). Having spent 3 years playing Referee between my engaged housemates on the Pro-Am Mind Games circuit, I'm equally misoygnist and misandrist: Basically, we're all crazy.

For me at least, it's a work in progress.

Hopefully, it is for everyone.

[pwhodges]

Count the postings in this thread complaining about women. Then count the posts in which there are "all those women complaining" about men.

I don't see men complaining about women, or women complaining about men; I see people complaining about failures of communication.  Even when a stereotypical veneer of gender is overlaid on this, the complaint by its nature  is actually about both parties equally, whether they themselves see it that way or not.  Discussions like this go wrong when people start talking about the labels instead of the facts.

The "normality" of this complaining seems rather skewed, don't you think?

Bad statistics.

[Carl-E]

We are far from a random sample. 



No matter how random some of us seem! 

[BluePaladin25]

(click to show/hide)

All I hear is a bunch of men bitching about women and a bunch of women bitching about men.

I think I'll just go castrate myself and be done with the whole thing.

EDIT: ROFL If I didn't know any better I'd think I was on drugs or something, hard to believe I wrote that just 5 minutes ago and was like "what do you mean I wrote that?! I'd never say anything like that!"

[Soulsynger]

Discussions like this are exactly why I don't understand modern day emanzipation movements, either side...
Why try to align (compare and "make equal" .. I know, hopelessly generalized) shoes with pizza-cartons? (Or pears with apples)

These forced comparisons (though not always just male/female-related) are a thorn in my eye on many a system... schools as a big example.

edit:
@BluePaladin25:
Sometimes I feel just like that. But you often times get scolded for uttering this kind of inconvenient truth. Everybody's kinda fed up.

[Tova]

I'll just add to the excellent post of pwhodges that you should also try counting the number of posts complaining about men outside of this thread before you make a statement like that. If you're having trouble, may I suggest using the search term "nice guy"?

[Schmorgluck]

I don't think intelligence has genders, but I'm pretty darn sure there are gendered kinds of stupidity. The "does this dress make me look fat?" question is a manifestation of female stupidity, and ought to be laughed at as shamelessly as a man harming himself transporting a piece of furniture because he was to proud to ask for help.

[pwhodges]

One person's stupidity is another person's obvious or "so what?".  Laughing at anyone for the nature of their thinking is a bad thing to do, and I suggest you reconsider what you've just written.

And I have male friends who would say: "does this make me look fat?" - it really is not a gender matter in spite of the stereotypes.

[FunkyTuba]

"Honey, I think the more important question is how fast can you get out of them...race ya! <3 <3 <3"

worked once or twice...

[idontunderstand]

Well yeah, there's plenty of men who'd look at their belly in the mirror and go "honey, you think I've put on a few pounds?". I'd suspect, however, that most men expect an honest answer, while a lot of women may just be looking for a compliment.

[CompSarge]

My ex asked me the "Dress make me look fat" question several times (She was probably one of the skinniest people I'd met). I responded with "That's a gorgeous dress." Worked like a charm. Well, the first time, anyway...after that she caught on...

[NotAwesomeAnymore]

Discussions like this are exactly why I don't understand modern day emanzipation movements, either side...
Why try to align (compare and "make equal" .. I know, hopelessly generalized) shoes with pizza-cartons? (Or pears with apples)

These forced comparisons (though not always just male/female-related) are a thorn in my eye on many a system... schools as a big example.

What does this mean?

I'll just add to the excellent post of pwhodges that you should also try counting the number of posts complaining about men outside of this thread before you make a statement like that. If you're having trouble, may I suggest using the search term "nice guy"?

A Nice Guy^tm is a kind of misogynist. It's like the term "white liberal" in that it addresses a certain kind of oppressor - even though those two kinds of oppression are very very different. "All men are a certain way and it's so annoying!" - that is sexist. "As a result of a sexist system centred on male privilege, there are men who behave like this and think it's justified, but it's not" - that is not sexism. The rants on women and the fat question I think are more like the former. Not that I think attacking just the Nice Guy^tm without attacking the system is productive, but you get my drift.

And again, what is up with looking for canned responses to a question for the sole purpose of getting someone to shut up? Sounds like fighting "mind games" with mind games to me.

[Schmorgluck]

"All men are a certain way and it's so annoying!" - that is sexist. "As a result of a sexist system centred on male privilege, there are men who behave like this and think it's justified, but it's not" - that is not sexism. The rants on women and the fat question I think are more like the former.

You should elaborate, because I fail to see how it's not more akin to the latter. This question is a brick in the gender wall, constitutive of the acquired miscommunication that perpetuates gender stereotypes.

[CompSarge]

Comic's up! And not a moment too soon.

Geeeeez, Faye. I know you're drunk and all, but still. Not cool.

[Paranoid]

It's looking more and more like Hanners is really psychic.  Either that or she has amazing reflexes for a drunk person.  It couldn't have been very long between the start of Faye's sentence and her eventual gagging by Hannelore's (now-sweaty) headband.  Hopefully it'll be a lesson Faye will remember for a while, however I doubt it.

[VonKleist]

I concurr, Hanners has cat's reflexes

First she had her pepper-spray out within seconds when Padma "attacked" Faye and now this. (edit: omigod! I just realized that the only adequate explanation ist that Hanners received Bene Gesserit training  )
The facial expressions are gold!



Makes me wanna indulge in some secret wine too.

[sluthy]

Is Tai coming home with them too? Panel 2 implies she is, but she's disappeared from 4 and 5.

[Schmorgluck]

Is Tai coming home with them too? Panel 2 implies she is, but she's disappeared from 4 and 5.

I guess she has stuff to pack up before.

[akronnick]

The correct response to "Does this make me look fat?" is as follows:

Say "Hmmm, turn around, let me see you."

As she turns around, crane your neck to get a better look, then tilt your head and let your jaw drop slightly (keep it subtle though). Hold that for three seconds, then shake it off, blink a couple of times and say "I'm sorry, what?"

If she then asks for a response, compliment her shoes, necklace, earrings or other accesory that she is wearing.

[DSL]

It's looking more and more like Hanners is really psychic.  Either that or she has amazing reflexes for a drunk person. ...:

Hannelore is unstuck in time.

[VyperX]

Wow, I really need to wake up... Took me almost 5 minutes before I realized what Faye was attempting to say.
Which is good, 'cause it means that Padma probably won't realize it at all. 

Still, I don't think it would have been so bad if Faye had managed to slip it out... Padma would likely have missed the innuendo behind it and assumed they'd be busy with more drinking and dancing. But I guess it's for the best that Hanners interfered. Faye could/would have had a lot of fun dropping hints to Padma. 

[Akima]

Hanners is super-quick there is no doubt. Jeph's hard work in drawing all those figures in all those panels really pays off, and as someone said above, the expressions are excellent. What I wonder is, how far ahead did Jeph plan this? Did he have this gagging in mind when he first chose Hanners' costume days ago, or was it masterful improvisation?

[Soulsynger]

Discussions like this are exactly why I don't understand modern day emanzipation movements, either side...
Why try to align (compare and "make equal" .. I know, hopelessly generalized) shoes with pizza-cartons? (Or pears with apples)

These forced comparisons (though not always just male/female-related) are a thorn in my eye on many a system... schools as a big example.

What does this mean?

It means that trying to make women and men equal is a futile attempt. You can't even odds.
Its just that this entire "do you think I look fat in this?"-conversation, where women are trying to explain their side and men are trying to explain theirs dragging on seemingly forever has reminded me of that.

(See RSA Speaker Sir Ken Robinson on education paradigms to get a clue of how I transitioned from this topic to the one about forced comparisons.)

Sorry, this was a drag for my brain, too.

@Comic:
Hanners has swift hands. And the eyes of a professional gagger/killer.

[Border Reiver]

The correct response to "Does this make me look fat?" is as follows:

Say "Hmmm, turn around, let me see you."

As she turns around, crane your neck to get a better look, then tilt your head and let your jaw drop slightly (keep it subtle though). Hold that for three seconds, then shake it off, blink a couple of times and say "I'm sorry, what?"

If she then asks for a response, compliment her shoes, necklace, earrings or other accesory that she is wearing.

That works, I also find that swift hug and kiss applied can allow you to avoid answering if you do it right.

[Throg]

I was wondering about the headband gag too (both meanings of 'gag') -- but yup, Hannelore had that headband as part of her outfit right from the get-go.  
==
Also, the thing about magnets and piercings -- how the heck would that work for keeping a top in place, in lieu of double-sided tape? One accidental tug from a random person on the dance floor, and yowch.  Like someone tugging on a hoop earring.  
==
Will Marten get a little lovin'? Somehow I doubt: Jeph has too much fun tormenting Marten for the sake of a punchline.  

[WAYF]

Not to be pedantic, but Hannelore's headband sort of disappeared in the last panel... Apart from this minor detail, the artwork is top-notch.

[anabatica]

I didn't get the last panel at first because I initially interpreted it as two panels with the grey wall thing breaking it up.

Not to be pedantic, but Hannelore's headband sort of disappeared in the last panel... Apart from this minor detail, the artwork is top-notch.

What's she got in her hands?

[sluthy]

This also isn't the first time Faye's had to be gagged .

[Jabberwocky]

It's looking more and more like Hanners is really psychic.  Either that or she has amazing reflexes for a drunk person. ...:

Hannelore is unstuck in time.

So it goes.


Also, Tai is the only sober person in today's strip!?   

[TinPenguin]

Comic today is just perfect.

I have to agree with Akima in wondering how far-ahead that use of Hannelore's headband was planned.

[jwhouk]

This is so annoying. SO annoying. "Men are simple, straightforward and practical!"

<snip>

Ma'am (and I believe I'm using the right pronoun there, if not, my apologies), you can call it annoying all you want, but it won't make it any less true.

Men have a more linear "get from point A to point B" thought process. Women, in general, aren't as concerned about getting from point A to point B as they are about how they feel about point C.

[jwhouk]

It does help communication between the genders when one side doesn't expect the other to be mind readers.

This X 1,000,000,000,000,000.

[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

Love Tai's expression in the first panel.  It sort of looks like a cat's face, which is appropriate given Tai's typical glasses.

I'm not gonna touch the gender arguments in this thread.  That way lies madness, madness I tell you!

[Carl-E]

I was going to write this last night, but I have a bothersome tooth that was keeping me from focusing without pain meds...

For those looking, the question "do I look fat in this" does not  have an answer, because it's not a Q&A type question.  Rather, it's an invitation to a canversation. 

Those of you with quick or pat answers are ignoring that invitation at your own risk...

Re:  The comic. 

How many of you (besides me) thought Padma and Marten's hands are too close not  to be touching?  Yeah, they're off screen, but c'mon...

And Hanners probably just assumed that anything  Faye said after Padma's comment would need to be gagged.  More of an anticpatory reaction than actual mind reading...