Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
pwhodges:
--- Quote from: Napoleon_Blownapart on 12 Jan 2012, 23:59 ---I just thought I'd throw that bomb out there because everybody is so quick to call Marten an asshole.
--- End quote ---
Well, Marten did that for himself.
As for your "leading on" scenario above, I don't think you have described a genuine parallel to how Padma behaved.
shlominus:
--- Quote ---Today I got so close to a wild sea lion that it was like "hey, please do not come any closer or I will bite you" and I was like "okay cool" and it was like "cool" and we chilled out for a while.
--- End quote ---
this is awesome. :-)
Dr. ROFLPWN:
--- Quote from: Armadillo on 12 Jan 2012, 23:30 ---I think even the noblest person on the planet would get just a wee bit tired of "being the bigger man" when he's the only one ever being said bigger man, and all it's ever done is blown up in his face.
Sometimes people just get fed up with their circumstances, regardless of fault.
--- End quote ---
You (and several others!) are entirely missing my point.
Yes. Sure. He can be tired of it, because being virtuous is really inconvenient and a drag and hard to maintain, and I'm not just being sardonic; there is good reason 'virtue' is usually a divine quality. It's hard to keep turning the other cheek!
BUT
That doesn't mean it's right when you aren't virtuous! That just means it's understandable! I understand why Marten behaved badly; he had every reason. Padma behaved badly first, too! But the point is that none of that makes his behavior okay, he acted like a fucking jackass.
That he regrets it is good, because it was fucking wrong!
--- Quote ---As for "sexism" being at work with those siding with Marten, that's just plain ridiculous. Who does Marten interact with on a regular basis, and who is in most of his storylines?
1. Faye
2. Dora
3. Hannelore
4. Padma
5. Elliot
6. Steve
So of those six, I'd say only Faye, Dora, and Padma have been "instrumental" in his character development, being that his dating life is his central story. Most people think Steve's a jerk, but he's in the comic so infrequently as to be not much of a factor. Remember the Marten/Elliot drama a few weeks back? The point is, when it comes to drama in the comic with Marten, it's the women who are there. It's not sexist to put blame on a woman IF A WOMAN DESERVES BLAME. Automatically absolving Faye/Dora/Padma is no better than automatically absolving Marten, is it?
--- End quote ---
You are showing a very poor understanding of sexism and how it works, and no one, least of all me, is auto-absolving anyone. Padma acted ridiculously badly and owed Marten an apology at the very least as one human being to another.
BUUUT
To say that it is all on her, and to extrapolate that it is something "women do" and to go on about how "women play games" or to call her a "bitch" is when we take a nice detour into open sexism and misogyny!
Also, some of you may not know this, but there is such a thing as male privilege! It's not really a cool thing and it's even less cool to enforce it!
pwhodges:
Things to bear in mind to help keep this place a decent one to visit.
(1) Blame culture.
It's unpleasant when people feel that blame has to be assigned for everything that happens. You know, sometimes things are just too difficult; sometimes they just don't work out; sometimes there are simply misunderstandings; sometimes we make mistakes. These things happen in spite of the best intentions. Assigning blame slips very easily into believing that mistakes and misunderstandings and failures are always avoidable and therefore effectively deliberate, and so should be punished. Punishing other people for simple things that just happen makes one an unpleasant person; life is better for everyone when forgiveness and absolution are freely offered rather than having to be earned.
(2) Projection
We are here to discuss the cast of QC and their experiences. It may be interesting to compare our experience with theirs, and to see how we or they might have behaved differently to have a chance of a better outcome; we can learn from such discussions. However, extrapolating a similarity in situations into simply stating that the characters should then behave as we would have done (or even have already done in the past), without giving thought to whether that behaviour was the best option, or even an acceptable one - either for the QC character or indeed for oneself - commonly leads to exposing our own deficiencies or insecurities. These thoughtless responses are perhaps the ones which most upset Jeph, and which lead to the most unpleasant arguments here.
(3) Bigotry
Most of society is deeply sexist to this day in spite of what changes have been made over the last century. When discussing a heterosexual relationship, of course there is a man and a woman involved, and if one can be seen as at fault at some point, that will be the man or the woman. This self-evident fact doesn't make sexism. However, the moment that the character's sex is used to justify their behaviour, or to explain it, or to define what they should have done, then the line has been crossed. We should put effort into avoiding doing that, as a step towards making the world a better place for everyone.
Napoleon_Blownapart:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 13 Jan 2012, 00:31 ---
--- Quote from: Napoleon_Blownapart on 12 Jan 2012, 23:59 ---I just thought I'd throw that bomb out there because everybody is so quick to call Marten an asshole.
--- End quote ---
Well, Marten did that for himself.
--- End quote ---
When a person who is so used to being a doormat actually starts refusing to be one, they might be inclined to think they're turning into an asshole when it's not really the case.
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 13 Jan 2012, 00:31 ---As for your "leading on" scenario above, I don't think you have described a genuine parallel to how Padma behaved.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps not, but your opinion may not be closest to the "truth" either.
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