Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT January 9-13, 2012 (2096-2100)
lepetitfromage:
So...did anyone else notice that Marten's mug says "#1 Grandpa"? :-D
NotsoAverageJoe:
--- Quote from: Dr. ROFLPWN on 13 Jan 2012, 00:34 ---
--- Quote from: Armadillo on 12 Jan 2012, 23:30 ---I think even the noblest person on the planet would get just a wee bit tired of "being the bigger man" when he's the only one ever being said bigger man, and all it's ever done is blown up in his face.
Sometimes people just get fed up with their circumstances, regardless of fault.
--- End quote ---
You (and several others!) are entirely missing my point.
Yes. Sure. He can be tired of it, because being virtuous is really inconvenient and a drag and hard to maintain, and I'm not just being sardonic; there is good reason 'virtue' is usually a divine quality. It's hard to keep turning the other cheek!
BUT
That doesn't mean it's right when you aren't virtuous! That just means it's understandable! I understand why Marten behaved badly; he had every reason. Padma behaved badly first, too! But the point is that none of that makes his behavior okay, he acted like a fucking jackass.
That he regrets it is good, because it was fucking wrong!
--- Quote ---As for "sexism" being at work with those siding with Marten, that's just plain ridiculous. Who does Marten interact with on a regular basis, and who is in most of his storylines?
1. Faye
2. Dora
3. Hannelore
4. Padma
5. Elliot
6. Steve
So of those six, I'd say only Faye, Dora, and Padma have been "instrumental" in his character development, being that his dating life is his central story. Most people think Steve's a jerk, but he's in the comic so infrequently as to be not much of a factor. Remember the Marten/Elliot drama a few weeks back? The point is, when it comes to drama in the comic with Marten, it's the women who are there. It's not sexist to put blame on a woman IF A WOMAN DESERVES BLAME. Automatically absolving Faye/Dora/Padma is no better than automatically absolving Marten, is it?
--- End quote ---
You are showing a very poor understanding of sexism and how it works, and no one, least of all me, is auto-absolving anyone. Padma acted ridiculously badly and owed Marten an apology at the very least as one human being to another.
BUUUT
To say that it is all on her, and to extrapolate that it is something "women do" and to go on about how "women play games" or to call her a "bitch" is when we take a nice detour into open sexism and misogyny!
Also, some of you may not know this, but there is such a thing as male privilege! It's not really a cool thing and it's even less cool to enforce it!
--- End quote ---
if he had every reason to act the way he did, then what he did is not wrong. if he had acted the way he did with no justification then i'd agree he was in the wrong. but given the circumstances, there is no way i can see he was wrong. he simply had several choices of how to respond, he picked one that some of us may not have. that does not make him wrong, it just makes his decision making process different.
its not all on her, but does that mean she didn't deserve what he gave her in response to her initial treatment of him? absolutely not.
i also don't think anyone is placing blame on padma because she is a she... i think they're placing blame on her because she was the initiator of all this. she initiated the physical relationship, she was the one who cut off communication with him.
interesting thought concerning the sexist thing by the way... do you realize how sexist it is to tell the man to "be the bigger man?" the term itself is sexist! when was the last time you heard someone say "be the bigger woman" in a situation that involves both genders?
men are always expected to turn the other cheek, to simply put up with anything a woman does, because after all, a man can take it, because we're big and strong and emotionally miniscule compared to women and blah blah blah... because a woman is ultimately ineffectual and nothing she does can cause lasting emotional harm... but if he retaliates, well, that's just unacceptable because he can actually hurt her emotionally. never mind the whole added spice of being called a neanderthal for being a "man's man" who isn't in touch with his emotional side and doesn't show emotional vulnerability, while at the same time still being expected to put up with any emotional abuse a woman throws his way! dam double standards.
this whole turn the other cheek philosophy only furthers the gender bias, but it does so by placing the majority of the burden on male shoulders. all too often the woman in any given situation is not expected to have the endure the same kind of abuse and just put up with it. that "privilege" is one that is almost exclusively male.
i would argue that, in the spirit of gender equality, marten's actions were not only justified, but right. in that, for there to be true equality, both genders need to be treated with the same respect, but also be expected to hold the same responsibility towards each other that such respect inherently entails. that means that padma's actions need to be viewed as being just as wrong as marten's, rather than dismissed as inconsequential in the bigger scheme, and as such his retaliation was a measured response that was completely appropriate.
edit: i also love how there are all these accusations of sexism flying around, especially in relation to the term bitch, which is a rather nasty word... but at the same time insults towards men, such as bastard, have been stated to not be as hurtful. maybe not, but as long as we hold the attitude that one is absolutely not ok, and the other is bad, but its more acceptable because its not as bad... then you're never going to reach equality. all you'll end up doing is furthering the separation between the genders by creating double standards of treatment.
pwhodges:
--- Quote from: NotsoAverageJoe on 13 Jan 2012, 08:59 ---do you realize how sexist it is to tell the man to "be the bigger man?" the term itself is sexist! when was the last time you heard someone say "be the bigger woman" in a situation that involves both genders?
--- End quote ---
The way sexism is entrenched in language is a big part of why I wrote:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 13 Jan 2012, 00:35 ---Most of society is deeply sexist to this day in spite of what changes have been made over the last century.
--- End quote ---
However, I would not find it strange to hear: "be the bigger person", and would attempt to make my mind produce that version (though I can't guarantee I'd manage it every time, not least because my ageing brain doesn't learn new habits as reliably as it used to).
--- Quote from: NotsoAverageJoe on 13 Jan 2012, 08:59 ---and as such his retaliation was a measured response that was completely appropriate.
--- End quote ---
To the extent that retaliation is considered an appropriate response at all. I would like to persuade people that it may not be.
NotsoAverageJoe:
--- Quote from: pwhodges on 13 Jan 2012, 09:13 ---
--- Quote from: NotsoAverageJoe on 13 Jan 2012, 08:59 ---and as such his retaliation was a measured response that was completely appropriate.
--- End quote ---
To the extent that retaliation is considered an appropriate response at all. I would like to persuade people that it may not be.
--- End quote ---
my world view is a bit more old school than is considered proper by many in this day and age. i have little to no tolerance for poor behavior and am very much of the eye for an eye philosophy. exhaust and all lesser means that are available and appropriate, but do not shirk from doing what needs to be done, when it needs to be done.
whats the cliche about what the father taught his son... "never start a fight, but always finish it." yea, its generally the paradigm i fall back to in extremis.
pwhodges:
Damn! :oops:
But at what point do we decide that no metaphor is permissible...?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version