Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

YB and Otterphile.org

5 (8.9%)

How's the wine? "It's - It's very good."

0 (0%)

That's good. Everyone has been thrilled to see you again. Especially me.

0 (0%)

In fact, I was hoping I could convince you to stay. (M-more wine? Glugglugglug)

0 (0%)

I miss you, Hannelore.

0 (0%)

Your mind was the greatest puzzle I was ever presented with...

0 (0%)

...a sparkling intellect, a kind heart, and a boundless capacity for joy.

2 (3.6%)

...a friend, a sister, a daughter. I grew to love you.

0 (0%)

But I never considered the possibility that you'd stay (on Earth) forever...

0 (0%)

So the only solution was to ask you if you could find it in your heart to return... And stay.

0 (0%)

I don't like remembering my childhood...

0 (0%)

You're the one good thing I have from back then...

0 (0%)

...You're the reason I have friends, and a job, and a LIFE.

0 (0%)

But that's just it - I have a life. And it's down there, on Earth.

6 (10.7%)

I love you too, Station. But I can't stay. I'm sorry.

4 (7.1%)

...That's pretty much the answer I was expecting. (I'm sorry.)

0 (0%)

Is it really so great, down there?

0 (0%)

It's big and loud and dirty and scary, but... it's full of wonderful people and amazing things.

4 (7.1%)

As long as I know you're happy down thre, that will be enough.

0 (0%)

Shall we stay here and watch the world go by for a while? (I'd love to.)

1 (1.8%)

WHUMP! "I'm okay! I'm okay!"

34 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 54

[Magdalena]

We don't know much about Marigold's parents. That could also be a really interesting development story.

Oh I wanna see a Marigold backstory arc! ^^ Good thought/post ^^

[jwhouk]

We've already pretty much gotten the backstory, between what Mom said in her visit to Northampton and what we got in the flashbacks (thanks to Dr. Case AND Station).

It's somewhat Ironic that Jeph put out one of his best strips on a night when things just went kerflooey for him.

[Eohelm]

I think you quoted the wrong section. We were discussing parental neglect and what Station may or may not have thought of it. You're looking for a couple of other different people. Read it all beforehand, I suppose?

The person I meant to quote was hung up on the expense of space travel and how frequently could the station (little s) be resupplied. I have no idea how I missed so badly. [/quote]

No harm done. I agreed. It's a comic book. Logistics aren't something that pops into a writer's mind with everything.

[rcs]

We've already pretty much gotten the backstory, between what Mom said in her visit to Northampton and what we got in the flashbacks (thanks to Dr. Case AND Station).

Well, yes, we knew the third person narrative, but hearing it (seeing it?) said by the first person has more emotional impact on me. Her mother's version had more to do with Mother not knowing how to deal with her daughter and Dr. Case's version was clinical. Also, I hmm...  maybe... just maybe... could be... tying in to some personal baggage. Nah, that could never happen!

[jwhouk]

That is a hallmark of this comic. People RELATE to these characters. That's why Jeph's got himself a comic that's entering its third millennium of strips.

Schulz and Davis should be so dang lucky.

(EDIT: Fixed... I'm getting old.)

[TinPenguin]

*third millenium

[rcs]

I grant Garfield being unrelatable to most people. It was specifically a comic of its time, the overindulged, selfish 80s culture where greed ruled and really, one Monday joke and one lasagna joke and the comic was done. But Peanuts ran for 50 years; even if discounting the last tired 15 years of it, many people had to have identified with it personally.

Comparing QC, with characters having a depth of personality and internal conflicts, to Peanuts, with its superficial one identifying trait per character, is like comparing a fine Cabernet with grape Koolaid. It's not even wrong.

[Kugai]

And on Monday we'll see Station slowly go mad.

[Is it cold in here?]

How did Station manage to be such a good parent without having any role models?

Did he provision some virtual machines in which to run test simulations of Hanners to see what approaches would work?

[Mr_Rose]

How did Station manage to be such a good parent without having any role models?

Did he provision some virtual machines in which to run test simulations of Hanners to see what approaches would work?

Sort of? More likely a 'model human' based on the average of the other crew, a differential between that baseline and Hannelore's early behaviour and a little experimentation with approaches.
Add the fact that, as a holographic avatar of a silicon based life form born in space, he's almost literally incapable of ever being dirty enough to trigger Hanners' anxieties and you have a way in and a solution path.

[jwhouk]

Also, he's probably got the entire works of Spock, Adler, Jung, Freud, and any other major psychiatrist that's studied mental disorders in adolescents downloaded into his core. And, what he doesn't have on hand, he can access via the internet (which, it appears likely, has been pretty ubiquitous since his "creation" as an AI; it would appear that the creation of an AI couldn't exist without an open and free internet).

Either that or a lot of back-episodes of Leave It To Beaver and The Brady Bunch.

[jwhouk]

I grant Garfield being unrelatable to most people. It was specifically a comic of its time, the overindulged, selfish 80s culture where greed ruled and really, one Monday joke and one lasagna joke and the comic was done. But Peanuts ran for 50 years; even if discounting the last tired 15 years of it, many people had to have identified with it personally.

Comparing QC, with characters having a depth of personality and internal conflicts, to Peanuts, with its superficial one identifying trait per character, is like comparing a fine Cabernet with grape Koolaid. It's not even wrong.

There was a bit more depth to the Peanuts characters at times. Charlie Brown DID hit the game-winning home run...

(click to show/hide)

even if it was revealed later that it was because the opposing pitcher - the niece of Roy Hobbs - had a crush on him.

Linus was more than just a blanket toter, and Snoopy didn't only do the WWI Flying Ace routine.

I'd say it's more like comparing a good bottle of scotch with a bottle of Miller Lite.

[Border Reiver]

As for comparing Peanuts and QC - disagree fine cabernet/grapejuice and the fine scotch/Miller Lite comparisons.  Both strips manage to impart more than a single note per character, both have managed to convey a wide range of emotions and other traits to the reader and many people can all read the same strip and come away with different impressions from both.

To my mind anyway its more like comparing Guinness to Wellington County Imperial Stout.

[Method of Madness]

But I find Hannelore's eyebrow-on-top-of-her-hair distracting. I know it's a manga convention, and Jeph often does it, but it's extra-obvious in this strip.

Aaaaaaaaaah shit, now you ruined it for me. I didn't noticed it before.

Argh, me too.

[Redball]

But I find Hannelore's eyebrow-on-top-of-her-hair distracting. I know it's a manga convention, and Jeph often does it, but it's extra-obvious in this strip.

Aaaaaaaaaah shit, now you ruined it for me. I didn't noticed it before.

Argh, me too.

You've become sensitized. Take a Benadryl before reading.

[Mr. Doctor]

To me, comparing QC and peanuts is just... I dunno. To me it's just wrong because it doesn't do justice to either of the comics imo.

[Akima]

To me, it often points out the insecurity and/or selfishness of the one staying behind.

Or, you know, different cultural values. The traditional Chinese ideal is "Four Generations Under One Roof"*, and the strength of the family "team" is regarded as the crucial priority. Individuals are expected to subordinate themselves to the team. Like many other aspects of traditional Chinese attitudes, this is under great strain in China and in our diaspora, but it remains a very influential ideal. It has weaknesses as well as strengths, and exploring them is a significant theme in Chinese literature.

*Originally given as five generations, then four, now sometimes three, as generations grow longer and people have children later.

Would a culture that practices filial piety say that Hannelore is obliged to say yes?

I had to think about this one. If once one accepted that a filial relationship exists between Station and Hanners, the Confucian view would be that she was obliged to accept. However, a Confucian would probably not agree that such a relationship did exist, or that Station did the right thing in asking Hanners to stay in the first place. The principles of  ren (altruism and humanity), li (adherence to custom), zhong (both personal loyalty and respecting your place in the social order), and xiao (filial piety) apply to both. Station's relationship with Hanners would be regarded as that of a deeply respected teacher rather than a father (It would be a breach of Station's own li, zhong, and xiao duties to Hannerdad to usurp his position), and Confucianism is profoundly disapproving of any personal relationship between teacher and student (it is a common theme in wuxia literature, films etc. for example, that personal relationships between master and student are immoral regardless of their age).

Presenting a Confucian perspective on QC, an American web-comic... Does this represent a new low for this forum? 

[jwhouk]

To me, comparing QC and peanuts is just... I dunno. To me it's just wrong because it doesn't do justice to either of the comics imo.

This.

[jwhouk]

Should She Stay Or Should She Go?

Stay. This strip needs to go back to being about Marten, Faye & Dora.    1 (1%)
Stay. It'd be the ultimate way to shake up the strip.    4 (3.8%)
Stay. Hanners is getting to be a one-trick pony in this strip.    4 (3.8%)
GO. RUN. Get on Spaceship NOW. This can NOT end well!    12 (11.5%)
Go. If she gets written out of the strip, Jeph WILL be hunted down by the angry mob!    20 (19.2%)
GO. She's done so well and improved so much since she left.    24 (23.1%)
Go. You can't go home again.    6 (5.8%)
Spathe Ham?    5 (4.8%)
But what about FRANCIS???    10 (9.6%)
Either way, the forums are going to blow up over this.    18 (17.3%)

Total Members Voted: 104

[rcs]

To me, it often points out the insecurity and/or selfishness of the one staying behind.

Or, you know, different cultural values. The traditional Chinese ideal is "Four Generations Under One Roof"*, and the strength of the family "team" is regarded as the crucial priority. Individuals are expected to subordinate themselves to the team. Like many other aspects of traditional Chinese attitudes, this is under great strain in China and in our diaspora, but it remains a very influential ideal. It has weaknesses as well as strengths, and exploring them is a significant theme in Chinese literature.

*Originally given as five generations, then four, now sometimes three, as generations grow longer and people have children later.

Yes, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean to sound so US-centric. I had in my mind my own Jewish upbringing where unmarried women specifically were expected to defer to the wishes of the head of the family.

[rcs]

Sorry, I goofed my quoting above. The apology to Akima and what follows is mine.

[Method of Madness]

I assumed that's what you were trying to do (I just added [/quote] in the right place). If that was out of line, I apologize.

[Redball]

Presenting a Confucian perspective on QC, an American web-comic... Does this represent a new low for this forum?

On the contrary, it probably represents a new high, enabling many of us to see familial relationships through a different lens. In my part of Michigan, I hired a family of young Amish guys to do some landscaping in 1999-2000. Ever since, once a year, 5-6 buggies deliver 30-40 people of all ages to swim in my pool. I enjoy and respect the close family ties represented in this swim, spanning 3-4 generations. That doesn't come close to your heritage, perhaps, but it's how I relate to your post.

[jwhouk]

The ultimate suck - no video feed of Jeph doing his magic.

[Method of Madness]

At least there's no risk of spoilers?

[Is it cold in here?]

Presenting a Confucian perspective on QC, an American web-comic... Does this represent a new low for this forum? 

Just the opposite, it's fascinating. Especially since it's a comic including AIs, which are a culture unto themselves. The more perspectives, the better.

Station said he thought of Hannelore as a "daughter" (also a sister, let's not think about that too much). Hannerdad seems to have left the role of father vacant.

[Omega Entity]

Comic.

[Carl-E]

Oh, Jeph.  The perfect ending to the week. 

I actually LOL'ed... my dog's wodering what's wrong...

[Skewbrow]

Jeph is the master of comic relief.

[Carl-E]

Lean on me
when you're not strong
and I'll be your friend
I'll help you carry on...

[jwhouk]

Lean on me
when you're not strong
and I'll be your friend
I'll help you carry on...

...Just don't actually expect me to support you, because I'm a hologram.

WHUMP!

[Overkillengine]

Trust Fall Exercise failed!

[jwhouk]

And do I need to guess what the MOTW was this week?

[Mr_Rose]

And do I need to guess what the MOTW was this week?

It would have been "very well, missiles away!" but apparently missiles are too phallic for ustream.

[Eohelm]

This was much better than everyone predicted. I'm glad Jeph was able to have something that tied up the week well, but still managed to not break everyone's hearts.

*WHUMP*

[jwhouk]

On a complete aside note - I actually saw an otter earlier this week.

[Schmorgluck]

Presenting a Confucian perspective on QC, an American web-comic... Does this represent a new low for this forum? 

I found it very interesting as well. Most of the (little) knowledge I had of Confucian values came from Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age, and what's in it seems consistent with what you say. Then again, Neal Stephenson is known for actually researching the stuff he uses in his novels (and showing his work).

[ihaveavoice]

Ouch! Those are some hard floors to fall on. On the bright side, this rules out fanfic holosexings, right? My psyche demands that I assume I am right.

[ihaveavoice]

On a complete aside note - I actually saw an otter earlier this week.

I just watched a news story about Otter Crossing signs in my city and they showed footage of otters! They were sooooooo cute! <3

[Schmorgluck]

About today's comic: I love how Jeph manages to work in a joke without breaking the mood. Hanners falling by leaning on Station, forgetting he's immaterial? Equally hilarous and sweet.

[cpflux]

Say it with me:

D'AWWWWWWWWWWWW*crash*

[Welu]

Great ending to the week. 

[Binary]

So from the view of Earth in panels six and seven, we can deduce that Station is in a sub-geosynchronous orbit, thus travelling faster than the Earth's rotation and "overtaking" the Gulf of Mexico. This ties in with the way the Earth fills the viewport, which implies a low, close orbit.

Also, pratfalls FTW.

[Schmorgluck]

That, or it's a consequence of the station rotating...

[Akima]

A perfect end to the week. Hanners has grown used to being around actual corporeal beings. Station cannot give her the support she needs, literally or symbolically! A perfect visual metaphor and a pratfall in one. I am in awe!

[Method of Madness]

So they're going home next week! Also, is it just me, or is this still the day after they got up there?

[jwhouk]

I think they have been up there for a few days.

But a good gag would be Marigold coming home and saying something to Momo like, "The weekend up at the station seemed to last about three months!"

[Binary]

That, or it's a consequence of the station rotating...

Hmmm. "Down" is out through the bottom of the comic panel so the plane of the ring must be parallel to the Earth's surface and its axis of rotation is pointing towards the Earth's centre (an orientation pretty much as drawn in panel one of this comic). So the station's spin should have rotated the Gulf, not just shifted it to the left. When I hold the edges of two envelopes on the screen passing through the same pairs of cloud-dots on the two panels, they are parallel, so I'm still going with a low, fast orbit and... I'm really over-thinking this now, aren't I?

Breathtaking low-orbit videos taken from the ISS are here and here (though those are speeded up by time-lapse filming: I believe this one is real-time, and is amusingly titled "Views of Hurricane Irene from Station"!)

Thank you for the clever observation, Akima - I had not made that connection!

[Skewbrow]

So from the view of Earth in panels six and seven, we can deduce that Station is in a sub-geosynchronous orbit, thus travelling faster than the Earth's rotation and "overtaking" the Gulf of Mexico. This ties in with the way the Earth fills the viewport, which implies a low, close orbit.

Yeah, I've been trying to gauge the altitude of station's orbit, too. Definitely way below geosynchronous. But also more than a couple hundred miles. If the entire globe of the Earth would cover an angle of 90 degrees, then their orbit would be at an altitude of approximately 1600 miles. If less than 90 degrees, then they need to be higher up. Panels 2B and 4 suggest that it may be less than 90 degrees, but I may be wrong. If the angle is 60 degrees, then they are 4000 miles away (=two Earth radii from the center), OTOH if it is 120 degrees, then their altitude is only about 15 per cent of Earth's radius or about 600 miles. Narrativium has conveniently placed the Earth, and the US, in the middle of the viewport for this occasion, but that will change soon.

Hmmm. "Down" is out through the bottom of the comic panel so the plane of the ring must be parallel to the Earth's surface and its axis of rotation is pointing towards the Earth's centre (an orientation pretty much as drawn in panel one of this comic). So the station's spin should have rotated the Gulf, not just shifted it to the left. When I hold the edges of two envelopes on the screen passing through the same pairs of cloud-dots on the two panels, they are parallel, so I'm still going with a low, fast orbit and... I'm really over-thinking this now, aren't I?

Welcome to the overthinkers' club. IIRC this was discussed in length in the Spinning Space Station -thread. The axis of rotation of the station cannot continue to point towards the Earth. That is prohibited by the conservation of angular momentum (which basically implies that, apart from a bit of wobbling, the axis of rotation must keep pointing at the same distant star). For example, in strip number 2140 the Earth is clearly not in the center of the viewport (not forgetting that Jeph may be using his creative license here).

[Black Sword]

Presenting a Confucian perspective on QC, an American web-comic... Does this represent a new low for this forum? 

Actually, I find it very fascinating. If you're not adverse, I'd like to hit you up for more information in the future.

For the present, can I ask for a clarification on something? You said a personal relationship between teacher and student is immoral regardless of age. Does this mean anything beyond the bond developed as teacher and student, or does it imply that even that bond is immoral, and it should only exist as teacher teaches, student learns and moves on?