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English is weird
LTK:
--- Quote from: Case on 10 Sep 2017, 12:52 ---Weirdest word in the Dutch language: uitnodigen ('to invite (invite smb. in)') - to a German, it sounds like a combination of '(hin)aus' ('out (of)') and 'nötigen' ('to coerce'), so that one always gave me cognitive dissonance .... like 'You invite somebody in, so you can kick them out?'
--- End quote ---
Surprisingly, that's actually the etymological root of the word, being a contamination of 'uitnoden' and 'nodigen', both being derived from 'nood', which means requirement or need - see 'noodgeval', 'noodzaak' - and was probably used in the context of being summoned to the court, which is basically an invitation you can't refuse. Only, we no longer use the verb 'nodigen' so 'uitnodigen' lost its connotation of seriousness and came into general use.
Case:
--- Quote from: LTK on 11 Sep 2017, 04:48 ---
--- Quote from: Case on 10 Sep 2017, 12:52 ---Weirdest word in the Dutch language: uitnodigen ('to invite (invite smb. in)') - to a German, it sounds like a combination of '(hin)aus' ('out (of)') and 'nötigen' ('to coerce'), so that one always gave me cognitive dissonance .... like 'You invite somebody in, so you can kick them out?'
--- End quote ---
Surprisingly, that's actually the etymological root of the word, being a contamination of 'uitnoden' and 'nodigen', both being derived from 'nood', which means requirement or need - see 'noodgeval', 'noodzaak' - and was probably used in the context of being summoned to the court, which is basically an invitation you can't refuse. Only, we no longer use the verb 'nodigen' so 'uitnodigen' lost its connotation of seriousness and came into general use.
--- End quote ---
Ah! Thanks! Nötigen/Nötigung (to coerce/coercion) is still used in German (with a respective article in the criminal code) - and has the same root: 'Not' ('distress'), with similar derivates (noodgeval - Notfall - Emergency; noodzak - Notwendigkeit - necessity).
The German 'einladen' (to invite smb.) is probably derived from 'ein' (in) and 'laden' (to load smth. into smth.) - which, admittedly, also doesn't sound like it has much to do with the free will of the invitee (sounds more like an announcement that you'll be loaded into a place at a certain date? :-\).
So, the Dutch host sends a royal summons, while their German counterpart doesn't bother with all the tedious mind-games & coercion and merely informs you where you will be at a certain time in the future, for your own convenience, should you happen to prefer coming of your own free will. :-D
--- Quote from: Akima on 10 Sep 2017, 05:43 ---My brain has problems with Flemish. When I watch cycling videos with Flemish commentary, it tricks the English-language part of my brain into thinking that of it ought to be able to understand it, but of course it can't. It feels like... my needle is skipping on their record? Like the meaning is on "the tip of my tongue" (well, ear really), and just out of reach. I don't have this problem listening to German or Spanish or other languages I do not know.
--- End quote ---
From a German POV, Dutch does 'sound' a little bit like German (dialect) with English influences. I guess that part of what makes Dutch sound familiar to you, while you perceive German as genuinely foreign is the "2nd Germanic consonant shift" that other west-Germanic languages, like Dutch and English, didn't adopt. So it'd make sense that the Dutch pronunciation of consonants appears more familiar to you than the German one.
Dutch also uses the same Gerund as English (-ing), but only for female verbs (Yes, verbs have a grammatical gender in proper languages).
(P.S.: Do you mean Flemish or Dutch? - Flemish is more of a Dutch dialect really, but ... I've always made the distinction in order to not appear rude to Belgians)
Cornelius:
--- Quote from: Case on 11 Sep 2017, 06:12 ---(P.S.: Do you mean Flemish or Dutch? - Flemish is more of a Dutch dialect really, but ... I've always made the distinction in order to not appear rude to Belgians)
--- End quote ---
Please do note that in effect Dutch is, in this case meant to mean the language of the entirety of the Low Countries, rather than what is now the Netherlands. Also note that Flemish has been a major influence in the development of the Dutch standard language.
I guess that about makes it clear what side the Moerdijk I'm from. :roll:
Case:
--- Quote from: Cornelius on 11 Sep 2017, 07:46 ---Please do note that in effect Dutch is, in this case meant to mean the language of the entirety of the Low Countries, rather than what is now the Netherlands.
--- End quote ---
Ok, so ... how do you guys want your language(s) to be referred to? I've always thought that referring to Flemish as simply Dutch was rude to Flemish Belgians? (The fact that the Netherlands have already claimed dibs on 'nether lands' doesn't make it less confusing, I guess ... :wink:)
And I guess that the Frisians might have an opinion on Dutch being the language of 'the lower countries' (whelp, they also have an opinion about being German ...). :laugh:
--- Quote from: Cornelius on 11 Sep 2017, 07:46 ---I guess that about makes it clear what side the Moerdijk I'm from. :roll:
--- End quote ---
Apologies for my ignorance, but ... not so much? German wiki about the municipality Moerdijk says that 'boven Moerdijk' means protestant Netherlands, whereas 'beneden Moerdijk' means catholic Netherlands (Brabant, Limburg). But ... both are in the Netherlands, not in Belgium?
Morituri:
You wouldn't guess that "mercy" and "mercenary" are related, but they are.
The link, of course is 'Mercari' or money. (Latin? Italian?) A down-and-out on the corner asks for money (mercy) and an itenerant soldier (mercenary) fights for money.
But one should not expect mercy from a mercenary. That's just not how it works.
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