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English is weird
Akima:
--- Quote from: Case on 11 Sep 2017, 06:12 ---(P.S.: Do you mean Flemish or Dutch? - Flemish is more of a Dutch dialect really, but ... I've always made the distinction in order to not appear rude to Belgians)
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I don't know really. The cycling events I'm watching are being held in Belgium, and I know the commentary is not in French, so I suppose I assumed it was in Flemish (in some cases the video I'm watching says so), but I don't know if I would be able actually to distinguish between Flemish and Dutch.
--- Quote from: Cornelius on 12 Sep 2017, 07:02 ---I've often heard it said that a language is just a dialect with an army. There's some truth in there.
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Certainly the distinction is often more cultural and political than linguistic. It is common, for example, to refer to Cantonese, Shanghainese, Mandarin, Hakka, Hokkien etc. as "dialects" of Chinese, when they are as mutually incomprehensible as English, French, German etc., which are all accorded the status of "languages". There are two reasons for this, I think. One is that written Chinese is basically the same for all the "dialects", but the other is the deeply-rooted cultural belief that "there is only one China". Ever since the unification of China in 221BCE, and however imperfectly this belief has conformed with reality, Chinese people have believed that China was one nation, and they were all one people, so it followed that they had one language, and that variations were dialects.
However, the languages spoken by some ethnic-minority peoples in China (Russian, Mongolian, Tibetan, Uygur, Kazakh etc.) are called languages, not dialects, reflecting the "ethnic-essentialist" view of Chinese identity held by both most foreigners and most Chinese people. :-(
Cornelius:
If it's on tv, it's most likely an approximation of the standard language, though with a Flemish accent - much depends on the commentator, really. Thge past few decades have seen the development of an intermediate form between dialects and standard Dutch.
--- Quote from: Case on 12 Sep 2017, 09:35 ---
Scots - Highlander Dutch
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About that: http://flemish.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/2014/05/09/the-flemish-influence-on-scottish-language/
JoeCovenant:
--- Quote from: Case on 12 Sep 2017, 09:35 ---
--- Quote from: Cornelius on 12 Sep 2017, 02:06 ---On the whole, we're alright calling it Dutch - we make the difference between Flemish and Hollands, which doesn't sit well with most of the Dutch. There's also the difference between the official, standardised language, and what is popularly spoken. If we take it to extremes, Flemish is only spoken in our two westernmost provinces, the north of France, and the south of Zeeland.
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The West Germanic Dutch Language Family Tree
Dutch - Protestant Dutch
Flemish - Catholic Dutch
Frisian - Middle Eastern Dutch
Low German - Eastern Dutch
German - Office Dutch
English - Romance Dutch/Trader Dutch
Scots - Highlander Dutch
Luxembourgish - Mercantile Dutch
Yiddish - Yidutch
Bavarian Mundart - Alpine Dutch
:mrgreen:
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You forgot one:
Jamaican - Pass the Dutchie
LTK:
Today I learned that 'yep' and 'nope' are words that were put into writing after it became popular to pronounce 'yes' and 'no' with an unfinished 'p'. So instead of saying 'no', the speaker cuts the 'o' short by closing their mouth, adding a gesture of finality. [Source] Imagine:
"Do you want to adopt a cat?"
- "No." = I am not receptive to that idea.
- "Nope." = That is completely out of the question.
In recent times, the same linguistic process has created 'welp' out of 'well', using that same tone of finality mixed with a generous dose of sarcasm.
"I need to get to the shop before it closes."
"It closed half an hour ago."
"Welp. Nevermind."
Interesting, then, that this use was described as early as 1946!
--- Quote ---If the speaker is American, and will observe himself when he utters well as a sign of dismissal of some discussion or activity (as in 'Well'-pause-'what do we do next?'), he will often discover that he has used welp, with unfinished p. Like other actions, this gesture of finality may become a mannerism. At a recent graduation one of the officiating deans managed it conspicuously, on turning to go backstage, as from a job dutifully done, after having recited his list of candidates.
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JoeCovenant:
--- Quote from: LTK on 04 Oct 2017, 10:59 ---'welp'
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Can I just take this opportunity to say..
I fecking HATE Welp/Whelp.
Hate it.
REALLY hate it.
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