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[ankhtahr]

It's a complicated system. We have different classes of licenses here. To drive a car (read motor powered vehicle with more than one wheel per axle with a gross vehicle weight of under 3.5 tonnes) you need class B. Class B also allows you to tow trailers when they either have a gross vehicle weight under 750kg or when the sum of the GVW of the car and trailer is under 3.5 tonnes. So if you have a trailer which weighs 751kg you're only allowed to pull it if your car weighs less than 2.749 tonnes. If your trailer has a GVW of 749kg, then you're allowed to pull it with every car you're allowed to drive with B.

The license I was wanting to do was B and BE. BE is the trailer addition. It allows you to pull any trailer with a GVW under 3.5 tonnes with any car I'm allowed to drive with B. You need additional driving lessons and a separate exam for that

[Redball]

I wonder if parallel parking with trailer is on the driving test.

[Akima]

Thanks Ankhtar. In Australia, once you have a full Class C license (car, truck or bus up to 4.5 tonnes GVM*, with passenger capacity not exceeding 12 people including the driver), you can tow a trailer without any further training or licence endorsement. Having seen some people get in a terrible mess with their trailers, caravans etc., I think your system might be better.

*We call it mass rather than weight.

[Redball]

*We call it mass rather than weight.

My first thought is, "How scientific of you!"
My second is that referring more correctly to mass rather than weight is a reminder that momentum of a moving vehicle is considerable. What's the state of science education in Australia?

[ankhtahr]

I wonder if parallel parking with trailer is on the driving test.

No it isn't. The only special exercise I need to perform for the driving test is reversing around a corner to the left. It includes stopping, getting out of the vehicle to lock the overrun brake and asking the driving instructor to get out of the vehicle and warn you of other vehicles. He is not allowed to signal if you're turning wrong, only to warn you if a vehicle turns up.

As for the mass/weight discussion, well weight was the first word that came to my mind, and GVW is what I found in a dictionary. The German term for that is "zulässige Gesamtmasse" -> "zGM".

By the way, Welu: Congratulations!

The problem is that I had to register at the local "DMV" equivalent. If I'd move I'm not sure if I could still do it with them. If I'd need to register again than I'd have to pay the fee again as well, which was somewhere over 100€. Also I'd definitely need to pay the registration fee for the new driving school which is in the same ballpark cost-wise.

Bit more detail about the German/European system (afaik it has been standardised in the whole EU now):
We have many more classes of licenses. Class B is the most common.

Class A in general is for Motorcycles. There are the classes AM for Mopeds (Two-wheel vehicles or three-wheel vehicles with a maximum design speed of not more than 45 km/h and with a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimetres.), A1, A2 and A for motorcycles (with different restrictions of power and driver's age). Then we have Class B, with the trailer extensions BE and B96, where B96 is somewhere in the middle of B and BE (max 4.25t GVM). Then there is Class C, which is for trucks. Class C1 is for small trucks with a GVM of up to 7.5t. Class C1E is for pulling trailers with C1 vehicles. Class C is for large trucks with a GVM of over 3.5t. No restriction on the GVM, as long as the vehicle doesn't have more than 8 seats plus driver. CE is for trailers again. Class D1 are buses with up to 16+1 seats, Class D is unlimited. D1E and DE are once again the trailer extensions.

Class B (the ordinary car license) contains the Moped license, Class AM.

[Redball]

I wonder if parallel parking with trailer is on the driving test.

No it isn't. The only special exercise I need to perform for the driving test is reversing around a corner to the left. It includes stopping, getting out of the vehicle to lock the overrun brake and asking the driving instructor to get out of the vehicle and warn you of other vehicles. He is not allowed to signal if you're turning wrong, only to warn you if a vehicle turns up.

I was trying to make a funny. On the other hand, I wonder if anyone has succeeded in parallel parking an auto with trailer in, say, two parking spaces.

[cesium133]

When I went fishing with my dad, you had to do that at one of the boat launches that we used because there wasn't much space for parking. It was a pain to do, especially since at the time I was just learning to drive. Oh, and I was driving a manual transmission. On a steep hill.

[KingOfIreland]

Thanks Ankhtar. In Australia, once you have a full Class C license (car, truck or bus up to 4.5 tonnes GVM*, with passenger capacity not exceeding 12 people including the driver), you can tow a trailer without any further training or licence endorsement. Having seen some people get in a terrible mess with their trailers, caravans etc., I think your system might be better.

*We call it mass rather than weight.

Yeah, same here in Belgium. Last year I towed almost a ton with my standard license, the first time I ever towed a trailer too. Somewhat scary when I was going over a viaduct and the whole back end of the car seemed to be buffeting like mad.

[Pilchard123]

I think you need a license for towing in the UK as well - there was certainly talk of it a while back. If you had a full licence before the change happened (if indeed it even did), you wouldn't have had to get a towing license.

What I don't get, though, is why you can drive on the motorway without an extra license when you're not allowed on it at all with a provisional license. As I understand it, you can pass your test and then straight afterwards drive around on your own on a road type that you've never been on before.

[Zebediah]

The world is full of strange rules like that. Example: When I was 16, the law in North Carolina was that I was covered by my parents' auto insurance while I had my learner's permit - but when I got my full license, I had to have insurance in my own name in order to be allowed to drive. Which I couldn't afford (being 16) and which my dad wouldn't pay for (because he's a cheap bastard.) The result being that I was legally allowed to drive the car to my road test, but not to drive it home after I passed. 

The law has changed since then - now you need to have insurance in your own name before they'll even issue you the license. So a couple of my nieces and nephews kept their learner's permits until they were 18.

[Patrick]

Last year I towed almost a ton with my standard license, the first time I ever towed a trailer too. Somewhat scary when I was going over a viaduct and the whole back end of the car seemed to be buffeting like mad.

was the load's center of gravity centered over the trailer's? it's very important to do that so you don't get that buffeting. that can damage your trailer hitch and put unnecessary wear on yr tires.

[Carl-E]

I wonder if parallel parking with trailer is on the driving test.

No it isn't. The only special exercise I need to perform for the driving test is reversing around a corner to the left. It includes stopping, getting out of the vehicle to lock the overrun brake and asking the driving instructor to get out of the vehicle and warn you of other vehicles. He is not allowed to signal if you're turning wrong, only to warn you if a vehicle turns up.

I was trying to make a funny. On the other hand, I wonder if anyone has succeeded in parallel parking an auto with trailer in, say, two parking spaces.

All the time.  We have a 16' sailboat with a 22' mast laid across the top of it, so it's a bit longer overall than the van.  The process is interesting - but getting a trailer to go the way you want it to when backing up is exactly the same as steering a sailboat with a rudder/tiller. 

So, a doubly applicable skill! 

[Akima]

What's the state of science education in Australia?

ZoeB might be better positioned to answer that, especially beyond undergraduate level, but I don't think science education is adequate. Education is  controlled by the states in Australia BTW, so my comments beyond this point are based on NSW, the state where I received my education. I am going to refer to "units" below. All you need to know is that high-school students in NSW need to complete twenty-two Board-Of-Studies-approved course "units" to obtain the Higher School Certificate (HSC), their score in which is used to calculate their Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR), the gateway to university etc.

The only compulsory subject in NSW high-schools is two-unit English, which is a pretty basic minimum, so you don't have to study science or mathematics at all.

Chemistry, Physics, Biology, and Senior Science (general science) are only available as two-unit subjects. Under the rules of the HSC, no more than six units of science may be studied in total. By contrast, "arts subjects" like English, History, Music, Modern Languages, and even Religious Studies can be taken at four or five unit level each. Essentially, the HSC discriminates against the study of science in a manner that shows that the pernicious Two Cultures prejudice is still alive and well in Australia. Mathematics does not count as a science in this context incidentally; you can do four-unit maths and six units of science.

[ev4n]

heeeelp…

somebody keep me from buying all the vinyls…

My record player hasn't even been sent yet, but I already bought 4 vinyls…

Man, there's a vinyl I really really want.  Shipping is 35 euros.... 

[Patrick]

my back hurts for no good reason and my friend punched me in the knee last night and it still hurts this morning whenever I move it. fuuuck.

least I got to spend the whole night at the bar talking to a really pretty girl. that is always nice, even though she distracted me and I got my ass handed to me playing 8 ball.

[Carl-E]

heeeelp…

somebody keep me from buying all the vinyls…

My record player hasn't even been sent yet, but I already bought 4 vinyls…

Man, there's a vinyl I really really want.  Shipping is 35 euros.... 

DAYUM.  Do people like you buy old vinyl? 

Maybe it's time to dust off the collection and fire up e-bay... old Jethro Tull might be worth something... my copy of "Stand Up" still does. 

[Thrillho]

Quite a sheltered viewpoint there, man. Vinyl's been huge for a few years now, old and new.

[ev4n]

Heh, I would buy used, but in this case it was new and shipping from Europe.  Not worth it, alas.

[ankhtahr]

heh, and I have a few vinyls I'd like from the US which I can't afford due to shipping.

And speaking of vinyl: my turntable finally arrived. It's frickin awesome!

First thing I did was listen through all the records I own. Which is a number which grew to 4 Albums (Mogwai: Mr Beast, Mogwai: Hardcore Will Never Die But You Will, Do Make Say Think: Other Truths and Wardruna: Yggdrasil) and 2 Drum'n'Bass records (Netsky: Memory Lane/Camo&Krooked: Turn Up The Music and Eric Prydz: Niton Drum'n'Bass remixes) as of today.

I also looked through some of the old records from my mother. She's ashamed of parts of the selection herself, but there are some nice things in between. I now have an interpretion of Part 1 of "Das wohltemparierte Klavier" by Johann Sebastian Bach. Among the better records are also two Uriah Heep albums, Deep Purple's "Made in Japan", and two Status Quo albums. Then there are many Beatles and many Prince albums, and lots of other stuff.

[KingOfIreland]

Last year I towed almost a ton with my standard license, the first time I ever towed a trailer too. Somewhat scary when I was going over a viaduct and the whole back end of the car seemed to be buffeting like mad.

was the load's center of gravity centered over the trailer's? it's very important to do that so you don't get that buffeting. that can damage your trailer hitch and put unnecessary wear on yr tires.

Oh it was balance well enough, just high sidewinds hitting a tall car and trailer will kind of put a stress on the back end of your car when you're towing half the vehicle's weight

[Zingoleb]

my moirail just asked me to get ordained so i can marry her and her fiancé and i said yes

[Zingoleb]

i'm ordained now! this is not how i was expecting today to go at all when i woke up.

[Masterpiece]

heeeelp…

somebody keep me from buying all the vinyls…

My record player hasn't even been sent yet, but I already bought 4 vinyls…

Man, there's a vinyl I really really want.  Shipping is 35 euros.... 

DAYUM.  Do people like you buy old vinyl? 

Maybe it's time to dust off the collection and fire up e-bay... old Jethro Tull might be worth something... my copy of "Stand Up" still does.

Over 9000 points for mentioning Jethro Tull. Have you seen them live?

[Carl-E]

'fraid not.  Only concert I've been to live (other than folk or classical) is the Dead.  Back in college, many years before Jerry died. 



Too many drugs.   

[Welu]

i'm ordained now! this is not how i was expecting today to go at all when i woke up.

That's fast!

~~

Had an anxiety attack in work. One of the worst I've had in a while and it came from nowhere. I managed to calm down after forty minutes and actually stayed and finished my shift. So that sucked but I'm proud I stayed when I was offered multiple times to go home. Thankfully workmates are very nice and understanding.

[GarandMarine]

Welcome to the ranks of the ordained! Stiff collars are on the left in the club house and your new sense of Moral Superiority and Righteous Indignation (tm) will be in the mail shortly after being tailored to your particular faith or lack there of.

[Loki]

Where are the sex scandals?

[lepetitfromage]

'fraid not.  Only concert I've been to live (other than folk or classical) is the Dead.  Back in college, many years before Jerry died. 



Too many drugs.   

My dad always talks about how awesome they were live. He wanted to take me to a show so bad but Jerry passed before I was old enough to go.

Semi-related- happy belated birthday, Jerry. He would have turned 71 yesterday.

[Patrick]

Hello.
I actually do blog ..sorta.
I've got it buried in a fan site for my favorite hobby.
I've had it up and running for 2 years and 250 posts.
Hope you like:  http://www.battletechuniverse.org/hpguplink/viewtopic.php?p=168755#p168755

if nobody else is gonna touch this, I'm gonna. this is not what the blog thread is for. I suggest participating in the "MAKE" subforum.

[Carl-E]

I thought we were all just politely ignoring it. 

[Patrick]

I'm definitely not polite.

So I have a pen pal now. It's the girl I met when my buddy and I arrived back in town after seeing the RX Bandits. She had asked me for a CD when she came to see my band play, but we both forgot about it. We were drunkenly texting each other last night and she reminded me (as well as both of us admitting we've got crushes on each other), so I asked her for her address. We're still talking right now, and I told her I was going to write a smarmy letter to send with the CD. She said she'd write back. Oh god this is too damn cute.

[Zingoleb]

i'm dating a super cutie and i'm going on a date with another super cutie my life is filled with hella babes i don't know how to handle it

[Patrick]

Uni, I think it's time you and I admitted we're sluts

[Zingoleb]

hell yeah i'm a slut but i'm a hella selective slut and i turn down 99% of offers that come my way

[Jace]

I was gone for a week, did you miss me? probably not. Here is one of the highlights of my week, this was on sunday and was the Combat of the Thirty. Approximately 30 fighters on two sides, French and English, and they go out and beat the fuck out of each other with polearms.

My buddy Enzo was participating and I was his man of largesse. That is the guy who takes care of his ransom and watches his captives.

Here is me grabbing Enzo's ransom, which we gave to the man he captured because it was the first time for both fighters in the Thirty and we are cool dudes. The guy he captured was an actual Englishman.

He is opening the ransom, which was 20 English Grotes (reproductions)

Here is the scroll (a writ of release) and pin that was given to Enzo by his captive. Enzo then gave me the pin as a thank you for being his man of largesse.


There's more pictures from the week and I'll make a superpost with some of the best in a couple days in the photo thread.

[Masterpiece]

My roommates have introduced me to an awesome German band called Kraftwerk, and I haven't been able to stop listening since. They make pretty awesome catchy tunes and are considered pioneers in the electronic music genre (and are said to have inspired both Hip Hop and Techno).

Anyway, I keep listening to "Computerworld" and for some reason keep picturing Loki as the singer. It must be because the singer of the band comes from Dortmund and I picture Loki coming from Dortmund.

[de_la_Nae]

Fun fun fun on the Autobahhhhhn...

[Masterpiece]

Eins, zwei, drei, vier, fünf, sechs, sieben, acht!

[jwhouk]

Kraftwerk - didn't they inflict "Zombie Nation" upon us all here in the US? Or was that Kernkraft?

[Masterpiece]

I don't remember a song called Zombie Nation.

[ankhtahr]

Sie ist ein Model und sie sieht gut aus…

And it's "Wir fahr'n, fahr'n, fahr'n auf der Autobahn" by the way. (fahren means drive)

I don't really like Kraftwerk, but there are some songs I just can't get out of my mind.

But if I think about the Autobahn, another song comes to my mind as well. "Autobahn" by the "Ohrbooten": "Das Leben ist wie eine große Autobahn, drum lass uns nicht lange überlegen, sondern losfahrn, wohin ist egal, und wo lang wer'n wir sehn, es wird immer weitergehn."


(translation for the non-Germans: Life is like a big Autobahn, so let's not think about it for long but start driving. Where to doesn't matter, and where along we'll see, but it will always go on)

[Welu]

Fun fun fun on the Autobahhhhhn...

I studied Kraftwerk for my course, as well as the whole electronica movement but the tutor played this regularly during the module and now it cause minor brain explosions.

[ankhtahr]

But, but it's wrong…

[Masterpiece]

Ankh, there's an English version and a German one.

[snalin]

Sie ist ein Model und sie sieht gut aus…

The Rammstein version is better anyways.

[ankhtahr]

Ankh, there's an English version and a German one.

"Unlike many of the band's most popular songs, the band has never released the song in any other language." 
"The lyrics of the song are in German, the main refrain being "Wir fahren fahren fahren auf der Autobahn" (English: "We drive drive drive on the Autobahn"). The chorus was often mistaken for the English phrase "Fun fun fun on the Autobahn.""

[Masterpiece]

Oopsies.

[jwhouk]

Wasn't until after I posted that I realized that Zombie Nation was the name of the band - and their most notable song is "Kernkraft 400".

[Patrick]

Just gonna put it out there that I DON'T GIVE A SHITTING GOD DAMN ABOUT THE NEW DOCTOR, AND MY ENTIRE FACEBOOK FEED NEEDS TO COLLECTIVELY KILL THEMSELVES

[Masterpiece]

Tardis more like TURDis amirite