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[ankhtahr]

As someone who at least feels drawn to a neopaganistic religion (namely Ásatrú/Forn Siðr), I don't know how to accidentaly become pagan.

[GarandMarine]

In all reality as someone who became Odinist without any form of outside help or influence... I dunno if it's really possible to join a religion or faith "accidentally". Faith is a concious choice. I doubt Unicorn was being serious though.

[Barmymoo]

I don't know, I was fairly resistant to the idea of becoming religious. Kind of like I was rather resistant to starting running. It just didn't turn out to be an option.

[Zingoleb]

In all reality as someone who became Odinist without any form of outside help or influence... I dunno if it's really possible to join a religion or faith "accidentally". Faith is a concious choice. I doubt Unicorn was being serious though.

mind your assvmptions. ignorance doesn't become anyone, mvch less you.

How does one accidentally become a pagan?

tvrns out a lot of the spiritual soul-searching i've been doing/the ideas i've come to believe are trve/the path i am on/have been on match fairly closely to what i've been reading about paganism, particvlarly among Hecate worshipers. i ended vp reading a lot about her and feeling a lot resonance - a lot of "oh, this feels right" - and did an invocation to Her a few nights ago. it was incredibly draining and i ended vp passing out on the floor right where i was immediately afterwards.

the next day i found a dead squirrel that had jvst died outside. perfectly composed, still warm.

it's now in my freezer, awaiting the division of its fur from its skin and its bones from its flesh. it's going to be one of the first things to go on the altar i've not yet set up (my room is still being cre8ed - whoever did it pvt vp drywall, screwed in half of it, dvct-taped it together, and then painted over it. this will not do).

Also you can't forget the shenanigans that tend to crop up when you remember that there's always a chance the god/spirit/whatever you're interacting with/for is just Loki in disguise. 

i think more likely than not it's often a spirit masquerading as loki. at least, that's what i've come to vnderstand from what i've read on discernment from a lokean elder.

[Grognard]

your'e not even going to eat the squirrel?

I'll have you know I made a 2000 mile shot in the dead of night with a hungarian NVG mounted on a .37 caliber Turkish cane gun firing hypersonic sabot discarding .005 flechette ammunitions; just to provide you with some sustenance.  My claim can be verified by the iLluminati and was umpired by the local Jusuit committee.


  somebody help me catch my marbles... theyve gotten away again. 

[Zingoleb]

i haven't decided what to do with the meat yet, to be honest. i don't want to throw it out - waste not, want not - but i'm vnsvre what to do with it as of yet. no matter, this is a project for after i'm finished renov8ing my room.

i'd like to eat it bvt i'm an awfvl cook and i'm p. svre my roomm8 would object to eating roadkill.

[Metope]

I don't know, I was fairly resistant to the idea of becoming religious. Kind of like I was rather resistant to starting running. It just didn't turn out to be an option.

Yeah I don't really believe faith is a choice. I believe you get influenced by things around you, even if you don't necessarily believe in the same thing as the people around you. Most of my family is Christian, but I'm not, and I don't think I chose not to believe. Growing up Christian, atheism was more of a realisation than a proactive choice, I didn't really want to be an atheist until I found myself being one. You believe in what makes sense to you.

[Zingoleb]

You believe in what makes sense to you.

this, exactly. i find a lot in this that makes sense to me on a v. visceral level.

[Loki]

So my flatmate is throwing a Russian themed party tomorrow and wants everyone to dress up as something Russian. In the thread on fb everyone are discussing what to wear and it seems people are thinking of sort of standard Russian culture, so my other flatmate and I have decided to not tell anyone what we're doing and then turn up as Pussy Riot. I have tons of bright clothes so it's not like I even need make an effort, should be pretty fun.

Confession: Because of that topic I just spent two minutes or so practicing my Russian accent aloud.

Thankfully the laundromat is otherwise empty

 

Also you can't forget the shenanigans that tend to crop up when you remember that there's always a chance the god/spirit/whatever you're interacting with/for is just Loki in disguise. 

Hey now. I think I'd remember that.

[GarandMarine]

It was possibly one of the more hilarious parts of my brief time in college that I convinced a few of my classmates I was a Russian exchange student from Valdivostock. (Step one, get shorts, and a t-shirt, step two, wait for it to be stupid cold out, step three, Sean Connery grade Russian accent, step four, let them come to you)

[lepetitfromage]

I don't know, I was fairly resistant to the idea of becoming religious. Kind of like I was rather resistant to starting running. It just didn't turn out to be an option.

Yeah I don't really believe faith is a choice. I believe you get influenced by things around you, even if you don't necessarily believe in the same thing as the people around you. Most of my family is Christian, but I'm not, and I don't think I chose not to believe. Growing up Christian, atheism was more of a realisation than a proactive choice, I didn't really want to be an atheist until I found myself being one. You believe in what makes sense to you.

I feel this way too. I grew up doing all of the religious Christian things- church every Sunday, helping out with the after-church luncheons, being part of youth group and choir- even going on a few trips with the church (to Tennessee of all places!). I was really into it. Then I just kind of....fell out of it. A few things happened that I'm sure didn't help the situation. Two of my grandparents died within 2 months of each other. I was also 13 and just starting to get angry with the world. I felt like I had been lied to about how prayer helps people....or like I was being punished. Then, the ministers I loved left our church to go to one in a wealthier area. I had just about enough and gave up.

Now....I still don't feel the pull to the church that I did when I was younger. If anything, I gravitate more towards Buddhist concepts and ideals. Not to mention that I feel more alive and more spiritually connected to the world after a session of yoga. It's not something that takes precedence in my life right now, but if I were to travel a spiritual path as an adult, it would probably lead me there.

[Thrillho]

We can't choose what we believe any more than we can choose our sexualities.

Shit, I wish I could choose what I did and didn't believe. Would make some things a lot easier.

[GarandMarine]

I can't agree with that concept at all, but this is not the place to have this debate.

[Metope]

You could start a thread in Discuss where you explain what your thoughts are if you want, I'd be interested in hearing a different view at least.

[jwhouk]

Sounds more like a nature/nurture debate.

[Barmymoo]

Not really - I was raised staunchly atheist.

[Metope]

Okay I made a thread about it in Discuss, if anyone's interested.

[Grognard]

I updated my faux-blog yesterday & got a weird email about it today.

a complaint that I don't update enough or on schedule.

? really ?

[Jimmy the Squid]

I have been travelling now for a little under 40 hours. That's from when I left my flat in Sydney and finally got to the hotel in Vienna about an hour ago.

The flights were OK. I fly well but it was three flights, nine hours, twelve hours and two hours with a total of 10 hours waiting in airports. When I got in to Vienna I caught a train into the city from the airport and just kind of wandered around for a bit. I feel slightly stupid though because I barely speak any German so I'm not sure how I'm going to manage to exist here for two weeks. I got myself a prepaid sim card for my phone so I can use data and stuff while I'm here. Mainly so I can jump on twitter and send photos to my housemate on snapchat. For some reason though the mobile data doesn't seem to be working at all which is sort of annoying since that was literally the only thing I got it for.

When I got to the hotel it turned out my booking had been cancelled because of a problem with my credit card. Apparently it had been cancelled the day the booking was made and yet I was never notified of this. I was really, really lucky that I was still able to get a room for the time I'll be here (two weeks, the hotel...desk....lady said they never get bookings for more than a few days) but it ended up costing me an extra 50 euros. Sigh. Expedia will be getting a pretty stern email from me once I feel up to actually writing it. I am sort of regretting coming here by myself. I mean, I am kind of glad to have some space for myself for a while but I don't have anyone to talk to, really. It's not even been one day though.

Holidays!

[Metope]

Exciting! And I thought my trips to Seattle were long, they're mere 12 hours, although once last time it was 20... Still nothing compared to 40 though, that's just nuts. Anyway, don't worry about language problems, most people in major European cities speak fluent English, especially in the west of Europe.

[Zingoleb]

i think it's a little redvctionist to say faith isn't a choice - it is, to an extent, what you were raised to believe, what you do believe, what you want to believe, what you're expected to believe, etc., etc. all having their own inflvences. i was an atheist for a long time, and i didn't believe in magic, bvt that changed once i started down that path. i've had enough proof for me to say 'okay, this is real.'

i'm getting svper tired of cleaning vp my room. whoever did i pvt vp the drywall, screwed in half of it, dvct taped the walls and ceilings together (instead of filling in the cracks w/drywall mvd), and painted over it.

so i'm the one fixing it. vghhhhhhhh. i still don't have a bed, which was kind of the one big thing i was hoping to get once i stopped being, y'know, homeless. instead i'm fixing vp YET ANOTHER room. move 48, starting out jvst like all the others.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Does your faith have anything to do with you refusing to use your "u" key?

Also, yeah I know it's silly but I think because I come from such a massively racist country, I feel extremely embarrassed to not be able to speak some German. On the other hand I just walked to a restaurant and on the way someone stopped me and asked for directions and all I could do was blink stupidly at them and in a small voice say "I have no idea what you just said." Then they asked me again in English! And I was able to help!

[GarandMarine]

I find in forgein nations if you speak enough of the local lingo to apologize for not really speaking the language they usually give you a pass.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Yeah, Guangzhou airport was significantly less intimidating because I can excuse myself for being shit at Mandarin and ask people to speak slowly pretty well. At least with German I can kind of sort of figure things out based on context and it being very similar to english in a lot of places.

[Zingoleb]

Does your faith have anything to do with you refusing to use your "u" key?

nah, that's jvst being bored/easily entertained

[cesium133]

I find in forgein nations if you speak enough of the local lingo to apologize for not really speaking the language they usually give you a pass.

Desculpe, eu so falo um pouco de português.

[Welu]

So I've come to the realisation that I am non-binary, possibly genderfluid? Labels are hard.  I've been thinking and feeling things about my gender for several months now but the lightbulb has only recently blipped for me. The only thing I can really say for sure-ish is that I'd appreciate "they/their/them" pronouns.

I've told my partner and so far everything has been cool. They've just been kinda, "I find this confusing but I'll do everything I can to make you comfortable and happy and I still love you." So, so far so good.

[BeoPuppy]

Now the accidental bit makes sense, thanks for explaining. Enjoy your religion.

That souns weird ... Still, enjoy.

[Metope]

About foreign languages, in western Europe it's totally okay to not speak the native language. I worked at a cafe in Norway, and I'd rather have someone just speak to me in English, which we both understand, than them trying to explain something in broken Norwegian that neither of us understands. Everyone who is a native English speaker feels bad about not knowing the native language for some reason, but there is nothing wrong about not knowing it. How on earth are you going to know the languages of every country you visit?

I find this is a bigger issue with Northern Americans and Australians because most people speak English natively where they're from, but in Europe it would just be terribly inefficient if we were all going to be 'polite' and know each others languages, there are just to many. Rule of thumb: if you're visiting a country, don't bother learning the language, but if you're moving there you should make an effort. So yeah, as a guest: please speak English, it's better for everyone

[Metope]

In other news: One of my favourite musicians in the world for like 7 years just sent me a link to his band's new music video that isn't released yet because he wants my opinion of it, how did it come to this and why does he care what I think and how does he even know who I am

(It's Shearwater, and their cover of a Xiu Xiu song, they're making an album with cover songs of bands they're toured with and aaahhhhh)

[GarandMarine]

About foreign languages, in western Europe it's totally okay to not speak the native language. I worked at a cafe in Norway, and I'd rather have someone just speak to me in English, which we both understand, than them trying to explain something in broken Norwegian that neither of us understands. Everyone who is a native English speaker feels bad about not knowing the native language for some reason, but there is nothing wrong about not knowing it. How on earth are you going to know the languages of every country you visit?

I find this is a bigger issue with Northern Americans and Australians because most people speak English natively where they're from, but in Europe it would just be terribly inefficient if we were all going to be 'polite' and know each others languages, there are just to many. Rule of thumb: if you're visiting a country, don't bother learning the language, but if you're moving there you should make an effort. So yeah, as a guest: please speak English, it's better for everyone

Most of my travel has been to Non-European countries and I find this /really/ doesn't work there. English is a common enough trade language and almost mandatory second language in Europe that you have a good chance that whoever you're talking to at least has a smattering of it and you can make yourself understood. Outside of that... say Japan, if you aren't going on a guided tour, you need to get basic survival grade Japanese down before your trip.

Survival Grade Linguistics: Enough of any given language to communicate that you understand and speak a little of the local language, ask for directions*, apologize, order a meal (and understand what it is you're getting, you only need to be brought a goat's eyeball for desert once to learn what that is in Arabic) request emergency help whether police or EMS and the ever important finding the head, and maybe some basic conversation.... fluidly. Preferably from memory.

A great example of a "survival grade" phrase book is this one http://www.amazon.com/Survival-Japanese-Communicate-Without-Instantly/dp/0804833680 which really saved my ass preparing for Tokyo, and several of my former colleagues swear by.

*Specifically what you're trying to find. For example "Eki wa doko desu ka?" (Where's the train station?) is a good question, but doesn't help when there can be three two or three metro subway lines nearby as well as the Japan Rail station you're ACTUALLY looking for. So more accurately and more politely "Soumimasen, JR eki wa doko desu ka?" "(Excuse me, where's the JR rail station?"). The real trouble can be understanding directions, but there's lots of signage in most of metropolitan Japan, so usually if you are lost, literally just getting pointed in the right direction will get you back on track in short order.

[Metope]

That makes sense, not everywhere in the world is like this of course. But since Jimmy is in Vienna and I specifically said western Europe, that's totally how it works there. Basically I was just telling Jimmy, or anyone visiting western Europe, to not feel bad.

Also when I was in Italy, the funniest thing we witnessed was an American man trying to impress his girlfriend by loudly proclaiming "GRACIAS" when he got his beer in the most American accent I've ever heard. First: "Gracias" is Spanish, not Italian, and second: If you're gonna try, try harder.

[Loki]

Labels are hard. 

That's why I prefer to screw around without them.

[GarandMarine]

That makes sense, not everywhere in the world is like this of course. But since Jimmy is in Vienna and I specifically said western Europe, that's totally how it works there. Basically I was just telling Jimmy, or anyone visiting western Europe, to not feel bad.

Also when I was in Italy, the funniest thing we witnessed was an American man trying to impress his girlfriend by loudly proclaiming "GRACIAS" when he got his beer in the most American accent I've ever heard. First: "Gracias" is Spanish, not Italian, and second: If you're gonna try, try harder.

That's fair, I took it as general travel advice 

Also your poor American tourist's Italian can't be that bad. Or at least it can ALWAYS be worse:
 

Even I know it's "Grazie" (GRAHT-see+eh) jeez I dunno if that guy was American, most Americans have AT LEAST been to an Olive Garden. 

Then again... I found a Japanese restaurant menu in the United States that was teaching "Moshi Moshi" as "Hello" so who knows where that dude's picking stuff up.

I will now share with you all the five most important words you can learn in any language. They must follow each other in use (per that language's sentence structure). (Note these words are dangerous in some nations)

Two beers please... thank you

[Metope]

He was definitely American, my friends and I heard him speak and there's no mistaking American accents in Europe. It's weird how much they stick out, but then again I did bump into an English friend of mine while in Seattle, and his London accent really stuck out there as well. I guess that's just what happens when you're a bit different.

And don't get me started on Olive Garden, my boyfriend took me on a 'fancy' date there as a joke (seriously, he was cackling to himself for the entire drive there), and wow. I got everything from too much cheese, over-friendly waitress, AND the dude at the table next to us was showing a majestic, hairy ass-crack. 

[GarandMarine]

Ahhhh yes. Olive Garden, patron home of fine "Italian-ish" dining.

That said their unlimited salad and bread sticks kicks ASS! Even if it makes me want to die afterwards from all the carbohydrates.

[Metope]

I think I stole like six bread sticks from that place...

[Zingoleb]

Labels are hard. 

That's why I prefer to screw around without them.

must be nice to be able to do that

[Is it cold in here?]

Even managing "please" and "thank you" in the local language is a token of respect.

One waiter in Iceland, when I said "that was good" in Icelandic, beamed as if I had just handed him his firstborn baby.

[GarandMarine]

Learning local linguistics also really opens you up to new places to go, I for example when I go any where try to find back alley restaurants and holes in the wall that locals mostly go to, as that is where the best food is (normally). Sometimes places like that don't have English speakers.... in the United States (thinking of one little Vietnamese restaurant in particular there)

[Barmymoo]

My experience, which is limited to western Europe and France and Germany in particular, is that people appreciate any attempt to speak the language they speak, but also are quite happy to speak english as long as you're not being all "fuck you guys I'm not even going to try". If you go in with an arrogant "everyone will speak english" attitude then they'll pretend not to.

[Lines]

Even a few phrases like "Do you speak English?", hello, and please/thank you, like it's been mentioned, are useful and polite.

[Metope]

That's so weird, I really don't care if anyone bother to try learning Norwegian or not. Why would they? It doesn't matter if you know how to say 'thank you' in Norwegian when I understand 'thank you' in English, often it's hard to understand the thick accents of people who have spent 10 minutes with a Lonely Planet guide anyway. It's unnecessary and inefficient when everyone speaks English, people who have that 'in this country, you speak our language'-attitude are really rude and shouldn't be allowed to travel unless they know the language of the country they're going to, see how well they like it :p

[Barmymoo]

I suppose the thing is that in Norway, everyone really does speak english and it's not a huge country. It may also be relevant that you can get to France by train from the UK, so France probably gets more tourists who turn up without any language skills and just shout.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I've taught myself to say "I'm sorry, my German is terrible. Do you speak English?" and I can already deal with pleasantries. However there are other factors making this difficult for me. Consider that I didn't eat lunch today because I didn't want to have to go to a place and talk to people and embarrass myself and annoy them (even though I know on an intellectual level that literally every person I've encountered in Austria speaks English and hasn't been a dick about it). I should go have dinner but I'm procrastinating as much as possible, even though I'm probably going to go to the same place I went last night where they definitely speak fluent English. I'd probably be dealing better with this if I had someone I knew with me.

I'm actually regretting making this trip so long. I knew I was only going to be booking in three days with my tattooist so I really should have just come for a week but instead I'm here for two weeks and really, I have too many problems to be OK by myself for that long. Not that I need to be monitored but it's been a day and I'm lonely and bored and I know that I'm not going to do anything or see anything or even go anywhere while I'm here because I just...can't. And it's shit because I'm going to have to go home and tell everyone how great it was and how interesting everything was and how much fun I had when in reality Vienna is just another grey place where I spend every day hoping I get hit by a car or that someone stabs me. I'd say I want to go home but I'm unhappy there as well.

It doesn't matter.

[Metope]

I suppose the thing is that in Norway, everyone really does speak english and it's not a huge country. It may also be relevant that you can get to France by train from the UK, so France probably gets more tourists who turn up without any language skills and just shout.

Oh yeah, annoying tourists are pretty crappy, but they're crappy regardless of which language they shout in. I guess it's easier to talk about how terrible they are behind their backs in a language they don't understand, I've definitely done that... Not everyone in Norway speaks English funny enough, in the cities it's fine, but I remember when Jens and I worked at the bakery/cafe in our home town and this English customer was so relieved whenever we were working, because he just couldn't communicate what he wanted with the other employees. One time my boss and I saw him coming, and my boss quickly ran to the back room to avoid talking to him, pretty funny. Learning a bit of the local language is probably handy in those cases, but for most people it takes a long time before the language skill is actually useful beyond ordering a coffee.

[pwhodges]

When I was going to Norway on business in the 1980s, it was said that a higher proportion of Norwegians spoke English than natives of any other non-English-speaking country.  I presume the proportion is even higher now, with the Internet, 'n all.

But when I heard Maria Ewing sing Carmen in the opera in Oslo, I found to my surprise that I could understand the Norwegian surtitles better than the sung French!

[Metope]

I think Norway, Sweden and Holland are the three top countries when it comes to English as a second language. I actually had a conversation with a Scot yesterday about how similar Norwegian is to English, and even more similar to Scottish accents which I think is really interesting. A couple examples: the English word 'town' comes from the Norwegian word 'tun', which means the place on a farm between all the buildings, usually a very social place. In Scotland you have 'toun' which is even more similar than 'town'. There's also the Norwegian word 'flytting' which means moving houses, in Scotland that's a well known spoken word (I've never come across it written down), but outside of Scotland it doesn't exist.

[Metope]

I also find it really funny how if I meet someone from the UK who doesn't know I'm Norwegian, they think I'm American based on my accent. If I meet someone from the states, they think I'm British. I don't think I sound like either! 

[pwhodges]

Flit is a perfectly common word for moving around lightly or quickly.  Birds flit (or flitter) around, for instance.  "Doing a flit" might be running away to escape e.g. creditors.  Leaving a party in a hurry I might say: "I have to flit now".  My Chambers dictionary (which specifically included Scottish words and usages) also lists moving house as an informal usage of the same word, especially in Scotland.