Fun Stuff > CHATTER
The most off-topic WCDT discussion ever
Method of Madness:
Yeah, but the book wasn't representative of his bigotries, was it?
Is it cold in here?:
--- Quote from: Westrim on 12 May 2013, 21:42 ---Also in real history is the fact that a good chunk of Ming pottery was even at the time of their creation exported to Europe, and most that were obtained afterward were sold, not looted.
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The Flower seemed to be one of those "national treasure" things that people don't voluntarily sell.
--- Quote ---On the general topic of China, I find outrage on behalf of historical artifacts taken from there to be laughable considering their perspective throughout history on the trappings of the past. From 1000 BCE and probably earlier, it was standard practice as part of the cycle of empires to get rid of the stuff from the previous one, and that carried through straight to the Cultural Revolution. The greatest damage to a society's past is usually self inflicted.
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That is, if you stop to think about it, a pretty basic ethical fallacy.
westrim:
--- Quote from: Akima on 13 May 2013, 03:26 --- It's long, click the link
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Being unique doesn't make it a national treasure on par with the Liberty Bell as ZoeB suggests, it just makes it unique. It's not a national treasure any more than every Monet should go to France. We don't know the history of this piece because it's not important to the story (I can't emphasize enough that it's just a MacGuffin that could have been replaced with anything unique from anywhere and served the same function), so you're interpreting the worst possible one.
Your comparison is unequal because unlike England, China made a habit of 'out with the old, in with the new', and did it so often it was acknowledged and named by 1000 BC. Every place has gone through periods of unrest, but China alone made a named and expected cycle of it. Even if it lapsed at times, Western Europe by and large had more respect for their own old stuff (it helped that a lot of them were tied up in the dominant religion) during the 1500s to 1941 period, even including stuff like the Sacking of Magdeburg and the Napoleonic Wars. My ultimate point was that ignoring the sins of China and focusing on the sins of the British Empire is myopic, not that either makes the other okay. Anyway, I wasn't trying to justify looting, which in all circumstances is abhorrent, I was pointing out that if it had been in China there's a better chance that it would no longer exist between it's obtainment and 1941 than there was from being in Britain. Sometimes sins do have positive results, but that doesn't make them less bad.
Variations on not actually being just plain bought from merchants were covered under the term "BS local government permission," but I suspect you drastically underestimate the number of pieces that were indeed just plain bought.
--- Quote from: Method of Madness on 13 May 2013, 04:15 ---I know that WWZ's been turned into a generic zombie movie, but what's the problem with Ender's Game? (I've heard surprisingly little about it)
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I have no idea, I'm just worried.
--- Quote from: Neko_Ali on 13 May 2013, 06:55 ---The problem with Ender's Game is Orson Scott Card. And especially all of the bad press he's gotten lately of his deeply misogynistic and homophobic world view and writings. It is not to the best credit of the LGBT community as a whole that lately every time his name shows up people start screaming about it because of his beliefs. See the crap storm that was generated when it was announced DC was having him write for Superman. But on the other side, his beliefs are deeply disgusting to me and others, and he is not shy about promoting them to the detriment of people. I know I enjoyed his books when I was a teenager, before I learned about his beliefs and realized how little he would think of me. It kinda puts a damper on things.
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I don't really give a darn about his views any more than I give a darn that Tom Cruise is a member of a cult explicitly designed to make money. They're unfortunate and idiotic, but ultimately have no bearing on his work if he doesn't put them in. I'll read any good book or watch any good movie regardless of what one person involved in the process says. He still writes good and thought provoking material (it may have been opposite to my politics and the characters way too smart, but I liked the Empire duology), and that's enough for me.
Neko_Ali:
Oh, don't get me wrong. I disagree with Orson Scott Card's beliefs and opinions, but they are his and he has every right to them. Nor do I think he should be denied work or any other horrible thing because of it. I think that the people demanding he should be fired from DC are in the wrong... They are basically trying to do to him what has been done to LGBT people for many many years. And it's just as wrong in that case as when it's against LGBT people. What I am saying is that there is so much negative publicity surrounding him lately that some of it is going to unavoidably spill over to anything he's at all involved with, especially the Ender's Game movie.
Is it cold in here?:
I believe there's already a thread for discussing how to deal with the work when you disapprove of the artist.
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