Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

Why did Faye's dad kill himself?

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Valdís:

--- Quote from: Eddie 88 on 14 Jun 2013, 12:09 ---but, Valdis, the fact remains that over 90% of people who are forcibly prevented from committing suicide are later happy about it, and go on to recover. Being depressed completely warps and twists your fundamental view of reality, so you also can't say, "suicide is a right, who cares what it does to other people, you just don't understand."
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[Re: You're crazy] ..That's not true. I don't see how you could try to justify saying depressed people have lost all touch with reality. Sometimes being in touch with reality doesn't exactly help. Which is also why I'd personally describe it more as a remission than a recovery - just hoping for an indefinite one.

[Re: Forcible prevention] Only potentially true if for the right reasons, not as a general success/failure rate. Personally I would've rather died if not. Again, comes down to the selfishness of the people who say not to 'do that to them'. It would not be in my best interest to "make me adjusted" to that life (through drugs/therapy/ECT/whatever). Many a time has that gone through my head, the only conclusion those thoughts have ever pictured is bleeding out.

[Re: Can't say..] Watch me: Suicide is a right and bodily autonomy is sacrosanct - yes, even when someone says you're crazy. I don't care how it hurts the rest of us when it happens, including how badly it ends up hurting myself. Just because this is an undesirable outcome to hopefully be prevented doesn't mean there aren't fates worse than death or decisions others ultimately don't have the right to make for you.

Even if I'm starting to get some shitty guilt over some of the causes of it at least having possible future solutions for me (even if only partially). That's not.. uh.. a "luxury" that some others have, I suppose? Feelings are weird.

Eddie 88:

--- Quote from: Loki on 14 Jun 2013, 13:29 ---
--- Quote from: Eddie 88 on 14 Jun 2013, 12:09 ---I'm curious how you'd explain her negative body-image and general negative attitude towards sex itself, if there was no sexual abuse.

--- End quote ---

...can we have have sources on her having negative body-image and negative attitude towards sex and not relationships? Because while girl certainly has abandonment issues, I have yet to see evidence of her having problems with sex. Are we talking about how she went to buy a vibrator with Dora or what?

As to the body-image: she has a Rubenesque body shape. Society will gladly tell you this is bad.
--- End quote ---
As for negative attitudes towards sex, I'll drum up some specific strips later (I'm too tired right now), but like I said before, compare Faye's response anytime anybody's talking about or mentions sex to Dora's or Raven's. Dora and Raven clearly have a positive view of sex, they see it as fun, they're comfortable making jokes, etc. Faye's response is always "ugh, sex." It typically comes off as denigration -- Faye acting like Dora is somehow lowering herself or acting improper by liking sex, Faye presenting the attitude that she's above such base desires.

As for the body image -- society schmoschmiety; nobody's making fun of her for being fat. In fact, everyone's always telling her she's attractive. She's dead set on this "woe is me I'm chunky" attitude, though. Probably not as much anymore (remember, I'm three years behind), but still.


--- Quote from: Loki on 14 Jun 2013, 13:29 ---
--- Quote ---Pokemon fans care about 151 other people.

--- End quote ---
I lol'd. Incidentally, "hardcore" Pokémon fans will insist there are only 150 Pokémon and Mewtwo "doesn't count".

--- End quote ---

Heh, never heard that one. Have you seen Mewthree?


--- Quote from: ThomasEll on 14 Jun 2013, 14:56 ---
--- Quote from: Eddie 88 on 14 Jun 2013, 12:09 ---

--- Quote from: ThomasEll on 11 Jun 2013, 16:22 ---So I think that really the two most likely contenders for him killing himself are it either being some internal depression that he had been keeping secret, possibly for a long time (the most likely), or that it was actually a cover up so he could become the Director of DoKYA (the version I prefer, although probably not actually very likely  :-P).



I don't think that him sexually abusing Faye is likely at all, if that was the case then it would have been (or should have been) picked up during Faye's therapy sessions, not to mention the fact that she was about twenty when he did it, so I would think that she would be able to remember that. I also don't agree with the idea that she has any sexual dysfunction, her problem comes from not being able (or rather wanting) to form the emotional attachment necessary for a healthy relationship. This is why she is able to have sex with Sven and at the same time justify to herself that it's not a relationship because she didn't particularly like him (although I think that if he hadn't cheated on her then it could have possibly become a relationship).

--- End quote ---

My thought was that he sexually abused her when she was a little kid, not when she was twenty. It just so happened to overwhelm him and cause him to take his own life after she left for college. Possibly because her leaving for college made him really think about his relationship with his little girl, and finally put enough distance between them, temporally and spatially, for him to self-analyze and become distraught.

I'm curious how you'd explain her negative body-image and general negative attitude towards sex itself, if there was no sexual abuse.

By the way, everyone always says Sven "cheated on Faye." Is this later on, or are you all referring to the Gina Riversmith thing? He and Faye weren't in a monogamous relationship, I wouldn't call that cheating. They were "just two people having fun," they even talked about it. Clearly, Faye was working up the courage and mental energies to turn it into something more, but at the time Sven banged Gina, he and Faye weren't dating.


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Faye directly tells Sven that if he sleeps with someone else then that will be the end of it. Now Sven doesn't actually say "OK" to that, but still.
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Not "but still" -- they were never in a monogamous relationship. Maybe what he did was dick-y, but it definitely wasn't cheating. And honestly, I don't even think it was particularly dick-y. Everyone has the right to choose how they live their lives. In a relationship, no one person's right in that regard is more or less important than anyone else's. If Sven wants casual sex, that's his right. If Faye wants to give him an ultimatum ("sex someone else and we're through"), that's her right. Just because Faye was hurt by Sven's actions doesn't make his actions wrong; he was well within his rights to have sex with whoever he wanted to.


--- Quote from: ThomasEll on 14 Jun 2013, 14:56 ---As for her negative attitude towards her body, that's not really hard to explain. I mean, I think that pretty much everyone has something about their body that they aren't happy with, and some more than others. She never really shows any negative attitudes towards sex though, the main problem for her before the talk was that she had massive anxiety towards someone leaving her.
--- End quote ---

Yeah, most people do tend to have minor body issues, but notably, the rest of the QC cast don't; Marten isn't upset over not being beefier, Dora doesn't go around bemoaning her physique, etc. Well, there's Marigold, but her introversion and shyness and stuff are the obvious source of that. Faye's unhappiness with her own body stands out as a character trait.

Now, you could all be right about it just being societal. Maybe she was teased relentlessly when she was young, maybe she's as bad as Marigold but hides it well due to all her snark. My point is, sexual abuse almost always leads to body image issues.


--- Quote from: Valdís on 14 Jun 2013, 21:56 ---
--- Quote from: Eddie 88 on 14 Jun 2013, 12:09 ---but, Valdis, the fact remains that over 90% of people who are forcibly prevented from committing suicide are later happy about it, and go on to recover. Being depressed completely warps and twists your fundamental view of reality, so you also can't say, "suicide is a right, who cares what it does to other people, you just don't understand."
--- End quote ---

[Re: You're crazy] ..That's not true. I don't see how you could try to justify saying depressed people have lost all touch with reality. Sometimes being in touch with reality doesn't exactly help. Which is also why I'd personally describe it more as a remission than a recovery - just hoping for an indefinite one.
--- End quote ---

You're demonstrating a break from reality right here -- nobody said "you're crazy." Not even close. You're seeing something that isn't there. The misery or whatever you're experiencing is making things seem worse to you than they are.

In a more general sense, however, it's well documented in the field of psychology that depressed individuals have compromised perceptions. Just do some googling. Off the top of my head, I remember a study we talked about in Psych 101 where a simple quiz on some general topic was given to two groups, one comprising neurotypical people, one comprising depressed people. Before being given the results of their tests, people in the neurotypical group typically accurately predicted how well they did on the test -- people in the depressed group typically guessed their performance as being far, far worse than it actually was.

You can find tons of studies on depression and perception, and they all pretty much say the same thing -- individuals who are depressed have a heavily skewed view of reality.


--- Quote from: Valdís on 14 Jun 2013, 21:56 ---[Re: Forcible prevention] Only potentially true if for the right reasons, not as a general success/failure rate. Personally I would've rather died if not. Again, comes down to the selfishness of the people who say not to 'do that to them'. It would not be in my best interest to "make me adjusted" to that life (through drugs/therapy/ECT/whatever). Many a time has that gone through my head, the only conclusion those thoughts have ever pictured is bleeding out.
--- End quote ---

I don't know you or your history or situation or current problems or anything, so I don't know what you're talking about and can't really respond here. I'm interested, though, and don't wanna derail the topic, so I'll PM you.


--- Quote from: Valdís on 14 Jun 2013, 21:56 ---[Re: Can't say..] Watch me: Suicide is a right and bodily autonomy is sacrosanct - yes, even when someone says you're crazy. I don't care how it hurts the rest of us when it happens, including how badly it ends up hurting myself. Just because this is an undesirable outcome to hopefully be prevented doesn't mean there aren't fates worse than death or decisions others ultimately don't have the right to make for you.
--- End quote ---

When I said "you can't just say suicide is a right, who cares what it does to other people, you just don't understand" I meant you can't make it that black-and-white. Is it cold in here? was basically saying "you shouldn't commit suicide 'cause of what it'll do to those you leave behind" and you're basically saying "fuck everybody else, commit suicide if you want, it's nobody else's business." I see both extremes as invalid. I was just pointing that out. Obviously people have a right to commit suicide, but that doesn't mean that right should be exercised, nor does it mean that the effects of one's suicide on others should be completely ignored.

And this is coming from a man who suffers anxiety and depression and has come to the brink of suicide.

Is it cold in here?:

--- Quote from: Eddie 88 on 14 Jun 2013, 23:40 ---society schmoschmiety; nobody's making fun of her for being fat.

--- End quote ---

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=170
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=754

Marten's complained about not being strong enough to hold up a couch or an unconscious friend (too lazy to dig up the references right now).

Whatever Fayedad's reasons were, he had the ability to pick up a phone or say "I'm thinking of killing myself" at a routine physical exam. With ability comes ethical responsibility. Whatever pain he was in, he should have tried pills first and bullets last.

(I'm starting to think I should move this into Discuss).

pwhodges:

--- Quote from: Eddie 88 on 14 Jun 2013, 23:40 --- Just because Faye was hurt by Sven's actions doesn't make his actions wrong; he was well within his rights to have sex with whoever he wanted to.
--- End quote ---

I suppose; he broke no law.  But society is a way of people getting along, and hopefully not hurting each other unnecessarily - and society says he was in the wrong, in the sense of being a major dick.


--- Quote ---Obviously people have a right to commit suicide, but that doesn't mean that right should be exercised, nor does it mean that the effects of one's suicide on others should be completely ignored.
--- End quote ---

Bear in mind that it is not agreed by all that it is a right.  In the eyes of much of the church it is a sin, and under the laws of some countries it is still a crime (Singapore and India, for instance, though most Western countries have dropped this).  In North Korea, legal sanctions are applied against surviving relatives...

Welu:

--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 14 Jun 2013, 13:56 ---There was no family history of depression on Fayedad's side of the family: Fayemom said so explicitly.

--- End quote ---

I was watching something recently which has made me think just because there was no official diagnosis does not mean there isn't a hereditary issue. Especially considering you're going back a couple generations where even now there's a, "Suck it up" attitude to mental issues, it was even worse not so long ago. There's a lot of things that are considered common now when there wasn't even a name only fifty years ago. 

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