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Pintsize: Butts.

6 (7.3%)

Marigold: Play DS and do the wallflower.

4 (4.9%)

Faye and Angus: Dance and sloppy makeouts!

0 (0%)

Tai: DJ'ing, of course.

11 (13.4%)

Dora: Coffee for the DJ booth!

0 (0%)

Marten: Bad dancing and moping afterwards.

5 (6.1%)

Claire: Non-consensual snuggles and brandy taste tests.

4 (4.9%)

Hannelore: sweeping up all the rice and sterilizing the knife for the cake.

7 (8.5%)

Momo: Making sure there was something old, something new, etc.

2 (2.4%)

She'd suggest a 5-yen piece in the shoe instead, however.

0 (0%)

Space Ham with Waffle Fries as the main course!

10 (12.2%)

Who cares? CONGRATS LINDS!

33 (40.2%)

Total Members Voted: 80

[ZoeB]

I like meatloaf.

[jwhouk]

I knew someone was going to do that.

And that song, too.

[Method of Madness]

Am I allowed to point out the hypocrisy of people screaming for tolerance for lesbian relationships while voicing disapproval of relationships with age gaps?

I see no hypocrisy.

[Black Sword]

MoM, they're saying people should be tolerant of lesbian relationships while being intolerant of relationships with age gaps. That's hypocrisy.

[Sidhekin]

I can almost hear the indignant "that's different!"

Yes, it's a different value system that leads to intolerance of relationships with age gaps.  It's still the same kind of intolerance of the choices of people who (obviously) do not share the value system in question.

"Yes ... but, see, they're wrong."

[Method of Madness]

General intolerance and disapproval based on individual cases are different.

[Valdís]

No, not really. General intolerance and individual cases are interwoven. It's also not like individual cases of intolerance are suddenly fine because they're just picking on the specific people.

[Method of Madness]

So if I think Dora and Jim are wrong for each other that's intolerance?

Also I never said the disapproval was based on intolerance!

[Zebediah]

OK, I'll bite: So what's wrong with relationships with an age difference?

I should probably disclose at this point that during my 20s and 30s I had several relationships with older women - 17 years older in one case. So if you're going to generalize about relationships with age differences, I'll be ready with several counterexamples from my own life that likely don't fit your generalizations. Fire away, I'm ready. 

So if I think Dora and Jim are wrong for each other that's intolerance?

Also I never said the disapproval was based on intolerance!

If you disapprove solely because of their age difference, then yes, that's intolerance. If you think they're wrong for other reasons, that's a different story - I happen to think they're not right for each other myself.

[westrim]

Akima:  Is there an innuendo I am missing?

Why are other responses dancing around answering this? Eating a taco = cunnilingus.

Oh hey, 1000 posts! WHOOO!   

[westrim]

http://forums.questionablecontent.net/index.php?action=profile;u=7346

see

Read.

Who the heck is Linds?

Linds is one of the top ten posters (by count) in this forum as a whole.  For people who habitually post in different parts of the forum, it can be hard to remember that there are also people who only post in one section or another and so never become aware of each other - please don't let that become a reason to take offense.

I'm aware that there are people that only go to other parts of the forum (though it seems weird to go to a forum and never discuss the reason for its existence), but I don't know any of them and am perplexed that someone who never comes to these threads was suddenly the subject of a poll in one. I'm also a bit creeped out and uncomfortable because I'm not really interested in suddenly being asked about a personal event in the life of someone I've never met or talked to or seen speak. I haven't answered the poll (and I always answer the polls) and am hoping it goes away soon.

[Loki]

Am I allowed to point out the hypocrisy of people screaming for tolerance for lesbian relationships while voicing disapproval of relationships with age gaps?

Err. I have to break a few blades about that.*

See, an experience I made in my family immediate circle of relatives was that because of different ages (23 years apart), they had different values; the more progressive member of the marriage in question ended up under the heel of the racist homophobic part. Of course, you will argue that that's not a matter of age alone, and you will be right. I am just saying that with an age difference, the risk of values dissonance (and thus potential for conflict) increases.

*LENGF: "ein paar Klingen brechen" (to break a few blades) means to fight persistently for a cause.

I'm also a bit creeped out and uncomfortable because I'm not really interested in suddenly being asked about a personal event in the life of someone I've never met or talked to or seen speak.

I can understand the underlined part, but not the bolded one. How does it creep you out?

[westrim]

I'm also a bit creeped out and uncomfortable because I'm not really interested in suddenly being asked about a personal event in the life of someone I've never met or talked to or seen speak.

I can understand the underlined part, but not the bolded one. How does it creep you out?

The same way an old woman coming up to you in the store and launching into a story about her hemorrhoids is creepy, just less severe.

[Method of Madness]

It's partly their age but more that they're in different stages of life. I don't think it's wrong, I'm just skeptical that it'd work.

[Is it cold in here?]

Dora was 26 when the comic started. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1958 is consistent with her being 28 now although that one was meant to be approximate.

Jim may not have much dating experience if he doesn't know what "I'm not ready for a relationship" means.

His reaction is also consistent with "Ooh, gross! Get a room!".

[Loki]

The same way an old woman coming up to you in the store and launching into a story about her hemorrhoids is creepy, just less severe.

...I cannot understand that either.

[Is it cold in here?]

Jim and Dora are at comparable stages in life despite the age difference. They've both succeeded at business, been in LTRs, and so on.

If "two-thirds my age" were an orientation then the analogy with lesbian relationships would be valid.

We don't know the Dora/Tai age difference: if Tai is a grad student she's probably 22+. Definitely different stages in life though!

[westrim]

The same way an old woman coming up to you in the store and launching into a story about her hemorrhoids is creepy, just less severe.

...I cannot understand that either.

Then we have different understandings of what creepy is. Oversharing is creepy to me. It makes me uneasy and desire escape.

[Valdís]

If "two-thirds my age" were an orientation then the analogy with lesbian relationships would be valid.

..No. Things don't have to be the same to be comparable situations. It's not like race, sexual orientation and gender identity are equivalent phenomena, yet there's plenty of analogies to be drawn regarding bigotries.

There's no good reason to consider it innately inappropriate; make all the excuses you want, it still comes down to personal compatibility.

[plusorminus]

You bring up age appropriate when Dora is likely 8 years older than Tai?

Jim, imo, is 40s-early 40s.  Dora is the oldest of "the group" and I'm betting at this point she's 30.

I'm so-so on age difference.  Mostly 20 year old and a 40 year old.  They're just at WAY different points in their life.  I don't understand what "age inappropriate" about Jim/Dora.

I don't think anyone in the QC world, that is Faye, Dora and Marten, are 30 per this comic. In real time, yes, Dora would be in her 30s and Marten and Faye would be just touching 30, but time froze for them some time ago and I believe they are all in their 20s.

A grad student on the low end can be 21 or 22. If Dora is 28, then at most, Tai is 6 years younger. Six years =/= 14 years.

I have issues with Jim. He has more or less stated he prefers younger women when he made that quip that he would have asked Dora out even if she were *gasp* 30. Kind of strange for a man who has had a vasectomy. Many women in the age-bracket he seeks would consider that a deal breaker.

If it makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I am gay, so I obviously have no problems with gay relationships. I do have problems with entitled men with teen daughters opening businesses that attract a younger crowd (ie a coffee shop) in a college town who clearly prefers to date significantly younger than himself. JMO.

[Method of Madness]

Jim may not have much dating experience if he doesn't know what "I'm not ready for a relationship" means.

What does it mean if not that?

[Pilchard123]

Possibly there is sometimes an unspoken "with you" on the end of that sentence.

[someone]

  I don’t know why that the dad is upset. He had one date with Dora some time ago. Dora has moved on. She is now locked into a co-dependent future with her crazy, walking personality disorder girlfriend who will treat her to future of anguish, hearing about the various groups her therapist refers her to, and a series of breakups/desperate reunifications couched in drama revolving around Tai's needs. He should be glad.

He also should ask Jacques to move him to the Harem Manga portion of the comic where Marty the slacker hangs out with all the charming girls. That is way more entertaining and uplifting. He also won’t have to worry about his daughter learning life skills from Tai. In today’s world, girls are best not mentored by drug addled narcissists that use sexual recklessness as a self-esteem coping tool.

In defense of these poor souls, they are actually the most realistic characters in the comic. My wife’s caseload at the community mental health center is full of women like this. Maybe unintentionally, Jacques has created characters that are actually useful if he was doing a web comic that was not supposed to be as comedic.

[Skewbrow]

I have issues with Jim. He has more or less stated he prefers younger women when he made that quip that he would have asked Dora out even if she were *gasp* 30. Kind of strange for a man who has had a vasectomy. Many women in the age-bracket he seeks would consider that a deal breaker.

Hmm. I agree that it would be a deal breaker for many. But is it not impossible that Jim would have brought up his vasectomy then and there (in strip #1958), if Dora had reacted to his quib differently? Not the most tactful way of bringing up the topic, but can you suggest a better one (other than may be waiting for the third date).

If it makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I am gay, so I obviously have no problems with gay relationships. I do have problems with entitled men with teen daughters opening businesses that attract a younger crowd (ie a coffee shop) in a college town who clearly prefers to date significantly younger than himself. JMO.

Here I disagree. Jim is running a bakery. May be simply because that has the highest market value among his talents? May be for some other reason (founded by his great-grandfather five generations back)? Bakeries may attract different type of clients than coffee shops. Look at the interior of tSB. A bit different from CoD! I betcha his not playing heavy metal either! I cannot tell, whether tSB is designed to appeal to younger people. But even if it were, it could easily be explained as making sense business-wise given that it is in a town, where a significant fraction of the population are college women.

Anyway, Padma seemed to be in charge of the daily operations. Have we ever seen Jim behind the counter? The suggestion that Jim is trying to use tSB as a way of meeting single young women is just stretching the available evidence a bit IMHO.

[cesariojpn]

OK, I'll bite: So what's wrong with relationships with an age difference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

[GarandMarine]

Wonder if Jim is trying to convince himself he didn't "turn [Dora] gay" or similar. Like "just how badly did I screw up that date?" style. Seems self-centred enough for that a least…

That's not really being self centered, that's just standard neuroses and a critical lack of self confidence. I really don't think that's what Jim is thinking though.

I have issues with Jim. He has more or less stated he prefers younger women when he made that quip that he would have asked Dora out even if she were *gasp* 30. Kind of strange for a man who has had a vasectomy. Many women in the age-bracket he seeks would consider that a deal breaker.

If it makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I am gay, so I obviously have no problems with gay relationships. I do have problems with entitled men with teen daughters opening businesses that attract a younger crowd (ie a coffee shop) in a college town who clearly prefers to date significantly younger than himself. JMO.

Significantly? Dora is as we said at most 14 years, which isn't significant at all, not in Jim and Dora's age range, nor as previously mentioned their stations in life. and I seem to recall Jim was under the impression she was older because you know, the whole "together business woman persona". I also want to know just who you think opens coffee shops for the most part, or bakeries like Jim. Hint young entrepreneurs with guts like Dora are the exception, not the rule. I'm also missing the "entitled" bit, Jim's always seemed like a nice guy, if a bit up to his neck on how to handle Sam properly at times. Also don't see what his personal choice to have a vasectomy has to do with anything.

Re: the bolded section, sarcasm is a new concept for you isn't it?

Over all I think everyone's reading /way/ too much into Jim's reaction and projecting way too much of their own horse shit on to him. Dude's just a dude, reacting as most dudes would. Let it go.

OK, I'll bite: So what's wrong with relationships with an age difference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

Because another culture's odd practice that even most of THEIR OWN CULTURE doesn't practice or like is totally relevant to a nigh meaningless age gap between two mature, consenting adults. Shine on you crazy diamond.

[Thrudd]

Yadda yadda yadda ...... voicing disapproval of relationships with age gaps? ... etc etc etc

Creepyness rule [nongender specific]

AGE ≥ ((Age / 2) + 7)

So half less seven in age difference seems to be therule of being acceptable.

Warning - while you were reading 2 new replies have been posted. The universe has begun to enter heat death. Fezzes are cool. You may wish to update your universe or order some strawberry rhubarb pie.

[plusorminus]

Re: the bolded section, sarcasm is a new concept for you isn't it?

Um. No. Is someone having an opinion different than yours a new concept for you? Anyway, I didn't read it as sarcastic. Dora points out that it's still 12 years difference and Jim is just "Heh heh" about it. He was, in my view, being serious. But even if he wasn't, what difference does it make? We know he made a play for Dora and he went on a date with someone at least of childbearing age because he said it wouldn't work out due to her being upfront about wanting a family.

At any rate, my initial point was that I have been on the receiving end of "Not ready/It's not you, it's me" sort of conversations and they've been BS. I really do think it was a timing thing with Dora and that if Tai had tried when Jim did she would've gotten kicked to the curb, and if he had tried when Tai did, Dora would have tried to see where it could go past one day. My take on Jim's expression is that he realizes that he likely dithered around too long and didn't circle back. I don't see this as having taken place in as short a time as other's think. At least a few months in comic time, if not more has passed.

[Valdís]

Yadda yadda yadda ...... voicing disapproval of relationships with age gaps? ... etc etc etc
Creepyness rule [nongender specific]
AGE ≥ ((Age / 2) + 7)

..Or alternatively one can simply not use arbitrary rules like that as to when it's acceptable to fall in love? It'd be "creepy" if I had genuine feelings for a 40 year old guy while 22? I'd have to wait until I'm 27 until it's "acceptable"?

How about "no".

[GarandMarine]

And your second paragraph's absolutely right, but I find your interpretation of that line from Jim to be so ridiculously off base, especially in a webcomic that's primary form of communication is a mixture of snark and sarcasm followed in close second by a finely powdered insanity.

[sitnspin]

Age differences are not the problem. The only problem, if there is one, lies in power disparity. If both parties are adults and one does not hold a significant amount of power over the other, then there's nothing untoward about it.

As a gay lady who has dated plenty of older women, some significantly so, I don't understand why anyone would pass judgment on one while accepting the other. Who you love (or simply lust after) is who you love (or lust). I find older women attractive, physically and emotionally. And apparently plenty of them have found me the same. Once past the age of consent, acceptable age disparity becomes arbitrary.

[Zebediah]

OK, I'll bite: So what's wrong with relationships with an age difference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

There's more going on there than just an age difference. The whole idea of paying someone to date you is creepy, yes, but that's the case even when both people are the same age.

So let's see about a specific counter-example. When I was 30 I started dating a woman who was 47. Neither of us paid the other. We were both financially independent - I actually made more than she did, but that was because I was a software developer and she was a teacher. Still creepy?

[DSL]

For me, the creepiness, or perhaps simple cynicism, would be a difference in maturity levels, quite apart from calendar age differences (I knew a May- ... well, September ... couple about whom I had misgivings for that reason; the younger-in-years partner was/is way more mature than the older partner. I don't know the reason for the eventual divorce but I can guess.)

Age of consent and the older-in-years person using that age/authority to advantage in the relationship (teacher-student, boss-subordinate) would certainly contribute to my disapproval.

Beyond that, I tend to go with the line "all adults are the same age," with "adult" defined as "one who accepts responsibility for one's actions, including and perhaps especially as they affect others."

I have a little bet with myself as to who in this forum will respond in what way to the comments above.

[Renewman]

I hope people aren't trying took at this with some homophobia angle because that's absurd. It's more so a blow to Jim's pride. He wanted to get another chance with Dora when she worked out her issues only to find out that not only has she worked out her issues and is dating someone without even letting him know, it's another female. Now Jim possibly feels like he was being led on and as a man I can understand that feeling. Jeph definitely caught me off guard with the taco joke though lol.

[94ssd]

I like meatloaf.

Better song! You have to listen to this one. I didn't know of its existence until recently and now it's one of my favorites.

[pwhodges]

a difference in maturity levels,

Even people of the same age have differences in maturity levels.  And one or the other may be more mature in one or another aspect of life as well.  Basically, all that can be done is for people (of any legal ages) to take the time and trouble to get to know each other well enough to decide whether they are a suitable couple in their own eyes.

[Sidhekin]

Better song! You have to listen to this one. I didn't know of its existence until recently and now it's one of my favorites.

Ah, I don't think I've heard it since it was new.

... the '90s were not all bad.

[cesium133]

I like meatloaf.

"The uploader has not made this video available in your country." 

[Madmartigan]

So if I think Dora and Jim are wrong for each other that's intolerance?

Also I never said the disapproval was based on intolerance!

Of course not, just like I think Dora and Tai are wrong for each other.  Fact remains, someone brought up "age appropriate" for who Jim should date.  Now, I can see a problem with college student (18-22) and a 40 year old man with a kid or something.

But I'm lead to believe Dora is 28ish to a high of 30.  Definitely late 20s.  She's far closer to the life of Jim than the life of say, Tai, who doesn't know what she wants in life yet/still figuring that out.

If it makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I am gay, so I obviously have no problems with gay relationships. I do have problems with entitled men with teen daughters opening businesses that attract a younger crowd (ie a coffee shop) in a college town who clearly prefers to date significantly younger than himself. JMO.

Wow. Wow. Double wow.  I'm left speechless at the absurdity.  I'll let someone else handle this one as I don't think I could respond well enough to not come across as an ass.

[MillionDollar Belt Sander]

Better song! You have to listen to this one. I didn't know of its existence until recently and now it's one of my favorites.

He has said he hates singing this one because it's basically a capsule autobiography.

[westrim]

Next comic, we'll turn out to be completely off base with our talk about age and sexual orientation and he'll mutter "damn Asians, takin' our women."

I'm restating this, but Dora is widely estimated to be 28, and Jim is probably in his late 30s/early 40s. This isn't an especially large gap (certainly not as large as the one in the recently canceled marriage of Rupert Murdoch and Wendi Deng), and they're of similar apparent maturity levels and career positions, so had it happened, theirs would be a pretty low risk relationship for cultural disapproval.

In general, I think the issue with age difference is that it gets conflated with maturity difference because our society is very confused on those points (which isn't helped by the lack of an objective standard for maturity), so people of very different ages are assumed to have very different levels of maturity regardless of evidence to the contrary. Thus people get huffy about a 30 and a 40 year old mature person hooking up, but wouldn't blink at an immature 30 year old and a mature 30 year old together. This also slides downwards into age of consent laws, and people who are above them but still too juvenile, but there be dragons.

I will point to the movie Big with Tom Hanks, which generally failed to be controversial despite having an immature 30 year old and a mature 30 year old together- with the twist that the immature one was actually a 13 year old boy agified via magic (perhaps it would have been more badly received with a gender swap?). It's most remembered for a floor piano duet.

[Method of Madness]

Tai's Asian? When is there any indication of that? Or of her ethnicity in general, actually?

[blacksinow]

As someone who considers themselves to be the most neutral person possible in this discussion, I think that it is only fair to confirm what some have been saying.

To some out there, the idea of someone older "coupling" sexually with someone younger may sound repulsive. Also, as mentioned, there could very well be a conflict in lifestyle and culture. Where the younger person may want to go clubbing or even play an mmorpg, where an older person may prefer opera or perhaps a documentary. You get the general idea here. But a gay relationship, well that's a different horse all together, but mostly because everyone has a different opinion for it.

Now for my reaction to the comic. I'm going to predict that Dora (being the kind of person she is) is going to show discomfort. She seems more of the kind've person to react badly to anything.

[Is it cold in here?]

Sven told Faye recently that he's 28, and Dora is a year younger.

We don't know Tai's ethnicity. What exactly did that one strip say about her red hair?

[GarandMarine]

Just that it was out of the box.

Not sure if bitter Jim is bitter...

[cesariojpn]

Just that it was out of the box.

Not sure if bitter Jim is bitter...

When did we start talking about hard liquor?

[westrim]

Tai's Asian? When is there any indication of that? Or of her ethnicity in general, actually?

I didn't say she was Asian, Jim said she was Asian.    Her ethnicity is Ambiguously Brown.

[KOK]

I have issues with Jim. He has more or less stated he prefers younger women when he made that quip that he would have asked Dora out even if she were *gasp* 30.

I got the impression that he was not entirely serious.

[Is it cold in here?]

He does think of Dora as being in a different life stage from himself if we can draw conclusions from today's comic.

[KOK]

OK, I'll bite: So what's wrong with relationships with an age difference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjo_k%C5%8Dsai

This seems to be more about income difference than age difference.