Topic: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013) (Read 57920 times)

A_Polite_Noise · « **Reply #300 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 08:54 »

I am also severely disappointed with Marigold, but not surprised, and I'm less "done" with the storyline because things like this are where drama and tension come from, sillyhead=P My guess is what will happen next is some confrontation in which Dale will be all "What happened?" and Mari will immediately go on the offensive (in her case, more like "go on the 'being defensive'"), and Dale will blow up at her and explain that she's not some picked on "geek" in their relationship: they both play games, and her self-consciousness and self-loathing has led to her preemptively attacking and mocking and showing disdain towards Dale; he's going to explain that she isn't being bullied; SHE IS THE BULLY. And I think that this confrontation will be good for Marigold, and will give us some insight into more depth and emotion in Dale. Either that or nothing will change. Or some other thing will happen. DEFINITELY one of those three things: What I said, nothing, or something else will happen.

Loki · « **Reply #301 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 08:55 »

Quote from: ElvisRevenge on 12 Jul 2013, 07:22

If it's just because he's on the opposite side in a video game...

I thought we had established in this thread it was not.

Edit: I wish I could upvote the post above me.

Method of Madness · « **Reply #302 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 09:01 »

Wait, what? I thought it was established that it was.

Quote from: A_Polite_Noise on 12 Jul 2013, 08:54

Dale will blow up at her

I honestly can't see this happening. Ever.

A_Polite_Noise · « **Reply #303 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 09:07 »

Quote from: Method of Madness on 12 Jul 2013, 09:01

Wait, what? I thought it was established that it was.
Quote from: A_Polite_Noise on 12 Jul 2013, 08:54
Dale will blow up at her
I honestly can't see this happening. Ever.

I think it will because its exactly how that quiet persona thing works in stories: they are quiet, calm, collected, reserved...ever bit of mockery or disdain Mari has thrown at Dale he's taken with a calm and collected face. His reactions are always minimal, and he retorts, as if it doesn't bother him. That's EXACTLY the sort of character who (if you intend to develop them at all) you make suddenly snap and lose their cool. And I don't think he'll blow up at her out of NOWHERE, but rather that when Marigold goes on some self-righteous and self-pitying attack about what a jerk HE is for leaving, he'll be so insulted and so flabbergasted by how oblivious she is to her own misguided and misplaced anger that he'll pull a, "No, YOU aren't gonna yell, I'M gonna yell! Here's why you are being TOTALLY UNFAIR!" sorta thing and she'll be all "...!", and then she'll feel bad, which would otherwise cause her to close off MORE and avoid social interaction MORE, except Momo will help and more calmly say, "He's kind of right, but you didn't mean to be mean" and then Mari will apologize and then Dale will make a Horde character and they'll be BFF. Or something.

Game and Watch Forever · « **Reply #304 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 10:00 »

While I agree we're pretty much set up for Dale to give Marigold a wake up call of some sort, I can more easily see Dale listening to a couple panels of yelling and then when she's done, he briefly says something along the lines of "you say all this, but you've been the one being a jerk the entire time" and then just leaving her to let the words sink in until she takes the foot out of her mouth and finds it in her to apologize.

But yeah, I see us just getting a glimpse of him being annoyed at the very least... but I'm not so sure about full-blown yelling/anger.

Loki · « **Reply #305 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 10:51 »

GWF! Haven't seen you in days, man.

I half-expect the comic going into a Dale-centered POV for a few strips, Dale talking to one of his friends.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #306 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 11:06 »

Quote from: TinPenguin on 12 Jul 2013, 02:06

Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jul 2013, 00:31
She's got zip for positive social experience.

Bull. The cast is full of people who've been nothing but nice to her.* But in her mind she's still fixated on the negativity. It's a hard spell to break.

*also she touched a wiener

Good point. It's only been a few experiences but they've been quite positive. I'll retreat into "in her formative years".

DSL · « **Reply #307 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 11:51 »

One consistent thing about QC is that "exactly what you'd expect" is rarely what happens. Also, Word of Jeph is that this comic is about (imperfect) people trying (imperfectly) to get along -- and none of the characters is right all the time or wrong all the time. Rather than take sides viz Dale or Marigold I will wait to see what happens in the one mind in which all these characters actually exist.

J · « **Reply #308 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 14:26 »

honestly, i'd be kind of surprised if dale actually got all bent out of shape about this. yeah, it's rude to ditch people but it's not like he's actively trying to be marigold's friend. he actually seems pretty content to just ignore her at this point.

Kugai · « **Reply #309 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 14:41 »

Oh the drama
Oh the angst

K1dmor · « **Reply #310 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 14:50 »

Well, Jeph posted this before this comic so...

~~GarandMarine~~ · « **Reply #311 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 15:39 »

Uh oh. Troll Master Jephizba is on the March.

Kugai · « **Reply #312 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 17:19 »

Yellow alert!!

Madmartigan · « **Reply #313 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 17:35 »

Marbear.....you're really being an intolerable dick.

He's been nothing but nice, is a bit weird/creepy.

Tova · « **Reply #314 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 19:11 »

Some people in this thread are as judgmental as Marigold is insecure.

cesium133 · « **Reply #315 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 19:45 »

Quote from: Game and Watch Forever on 12 Jul 2013, 10:00

While I agree we're pretty much set up for Dale to give Marigold a wake up call of some sort, I can more easily see Dale listening to a couple panels of yelling and then when she's done, he briefly says something along the lines of "you say all this, but you've been the one being a jerk the entire time" and then just leaving her to let the words sink in until she takes the foot out of her mouth and finds it in her to apologize.

But yeah, I see us just getting a glimpse of him being annoyed at the very least... but I'm not so sure about full-blown yelling/anger.

I could see Marigold responding to that with something along the lines of "You're the jerk... jerk."

*was thinking of puns involving the word "jerk", but instead I'll just skip the pun and leave a water feeder bottle for the squirrel.

TRVA123 · « **Reply #316 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 20:20 »

I'm just honestly bored with the Marigold/Dale thing. I would be more interested if their interactions progressed to something more mature, actually have a conversation, actually make some sort of connection. But I just couldn't care less about this childish bickering.

I really wish Jeph would bring back focus to some more interesting characters, like Sven or Raven, or Claire, or Marten's Mom. heck, I would be thrilled to see Momo make an exciting new anthroPC friend. Anything but this highschool/sitcom stuff.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #317 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 20:55 »

I wouldn't mind seeing more of a character acting like a child, if it were Sam.

TRVA123 · « **Reply #318 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 21:06 »

meh, sure. But Sam's childishness is encouraging characters to grow. And we only get small doses of Sam.

With Marigold its two steps forward, one step back. No, maybe a half step forward, and then a half-step back.

I just don't have the energy to care about her story any more. If this were in small doses it might be more bearable, but the Marigold/Dale thing has been pretty heavily featured lately.

Emperor Norton · « **Reply #319 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 21:38 »

Quote from: Tova on 12 Jul 2013, 19:11

Some people in this thread are as judgmental as Marigold is insecure.

I think the word you are looking for is oblivious, not insecure.

She seems to be 100% oblivious to the fact that she is treating Dale like other people treated her. She is bitter because people were dicks, yet she is doing the same thing. Maybe she will gain some self-awareness and learn that sometimes people being dicks are just broken and trying to deal with it and it has nothing to do with who you are.

But honestly, with where she is right now, it doesn't seem likely unless Dale shoves it in her face that she is being kind of a dick.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #320 on:** 12 Jul 2013, 23:32 »

Her best friend might point it out to her.

jwhouk · « **Reply #321 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 01:50 »

Before or after the application of a few thousand volts?

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #322 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 02:35 »

She doesn't play a musical instrument, so it must be her destiny to become a conductor.

DeusExLibris · « **Reply #323 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 03:02 »

I have to say, I think Marigold's reaction is more nuanced than some people seem to be assuming. Look at her expression in the first panel. She might have been expecting Dale to be a jerk, but she's still hurt when it actually 'happens', perhaps because deep down she was hoping it wouldn't.

That said, I think the whole Marigold/Dale story arc has dragged on way too long. It was amusing at first, but once Dale decided to bury the hatchet it was time to move on to something else. That's especially true for Dale, since his role in the strip is pretty much defined by his relationship with Marigold.

themacnut · « **Reply #324 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 03:14 »

Welp, now we know why an otherwise good looking young woman like Marigold has never had a boyfriend and had to go into space to get kissed. And from the look of it, things won't go any further with Dale.

Mlle Germain · « **Reply #325 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 04:32 »

I also think Marigold is being judged much too harshly here.
As I've said before in this thread, she just does not now how to deal with this kind of situation (remember how she acted when Francis showed interest in her and there was the prospect of having to talk to him alone, although she didn't know him at all - and they had not been in a fight for ages before that).
Also, Dale is not really innocent in this. Remember how many snide remarks she had to endure from him. I actually thought it was funny most of the time, but Marigold might not have, since she has little self-esteem and lots of experience with being bullied. A lot of those time she reacted quite well to that, though. I think Marigold secretly would like to appear cool and not much affected by anything Dale does, but is so nervous about it that she does not know how to pull that off properly. Of course, the Hissss is a little silly. But who isn't, once in a while?
I really don't think Marigold hates Dale at all, much less because of WoW. To me it seems much more that he makes her nervous and she doesn't know how to act around him.

techkid · « **Reply #326 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 05:20 »

Mlle Germain, I don't think there is a lot of harsh judgement here (some, sure, but not a lot). Emperor Norton said it pretty well:

Quote from: Emperor Norton on 12 Jul 2013, 21:38

She is bitter because people were dicks, yet she is doing the same thing. Maybe she will gain some self-awareness and learn that sometimes people being dicks are just broken and trying to deal with it and it has nothing to do with who you are.

But honestly, with where she is right now, it doesn't seem likely unless Dale shoves it in her face that she is being kind of a dick.

Because she jumps to conclusions like that, she needs to learn that automatically assuming the worst in people is only going to bring out the worst in yourself. Sure, some people are as dickish as that, but not everyone.

TL;DR - Marigold needs to wake up to herself, for her own benefit and for her development as a person.

852derek852 · « **Reply #327 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 09:32 »

All Marigold wants right now is to make a bee line for the MarBear Cave, and be left to stew in her own childish, distorted version of reality alone. I really hope Dale catches her first. There must be a back story for why he's been willing to put up with her bullshit for as long as he has.

Maybe he used to be like her himself?

Madmartigan · « **Reply #328 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 10:17 »

Quote from: 852derek852 on 13 Jul 2013, 09:32

All Marigold wants right now is to make a bee line for the MarBear Cave, and be left to stew in her own childish, distorted version of reality alone. I really hope Dale catches her first. There must be a back story for why he's been willing to put up with her bullshit for as long as he has.

Maybe he used to be like her himself?

I figure it is almost guaranteed Dale was ostracized as a kid like Marigold probably was. He's nerdy, heavy into WoW, etc, etc. Dale probably gave up caring what other people thought a long time go and now just goes with the flow (and he seems really laid back. To the point he's so mellow it's like he's on a weed high on the time). High time Marigold got over herself as well. Amazing she hasn't progressed much given the stable of friends she's gotten now.

I mean, for fuck's sake! She was only invited to go into SPACE!

Skewbrow · « **Reply #329 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 10:22 »

Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 12 Jul 2013, 23:32

Her best friend might point it out to her.

Quote from: jwhouk on 13 Jul 2013, 01:50

Before or after the application of a few thousand volts?

I rather think that this a job for Hannelore. Or at least, if Hannelore were to point this out to her, a lesson might sink in.

Method of Madness · « **Reply #330 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 10:38 »

She has. It seems no lesson was learned.

jwhouk · « **Reply #331 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 14:57 »

I still suggest the high voltage attention getting technique.

J · « **Reply #332 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 15:46 »

Quote from: Tova on 12 Jul 2013, 19:11

Some people in this thread are as judgmental as Marigold is insecure.

people being judgmental, on the internet? why that's just a ridiculous idea.

Emperor Norton · « **Reply #333 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 16:28 »

Quote from: Tova on 12 Jul 2013, 19:11

Some people in this thread are as judgmental as Marigold is insecure.

Its not judgmental to recognize that someone is making huge missteps and the entire reason for it is ignoring all evidence to the contrary of their preconceived notions.

Pretending its all OK for someone to act like that because they were bullied in the past is just letting cycles of behavior continue indefinitely.

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #334 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 17:24 »

I think Hannelore is not Marigold's best friend, just her best human friend.

DeusExLibris · « **Reply #335 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 18:17 »

Quote from: 852derek852 on 13 Jul 2013, 09:32

I really hope Dale catches her first. There must be a back story for why he's been willing to put up with her bullshit for as long as he has.

Maybe he used to be like her himself?

What bullshit? All there's really been from Marigold is the throwaway gag of not tipping him for being Alliance, and now this. All the rest of their little 'feud' was generated by Dale. Marigold's real problem is that since Dale showed himself the bigger man and tried to bury the hatchet, she's been unable to adjust. Since she got up this morning she's been behaving like the feud was still going, which I admit makes her look like pretty childish.

As for Dale, does he really care? We've already seen him walk straight past Marigold today. He didn't want to go out to dinner with Marigold, but Momo forced them. I doubt he's going to lose much sleep over the fact that Marigold doesn't like him.

Rghfrgl · « **Reply #336 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 18:31 »

Quote

Some people in this thread are as judgmental as Marigold is insecure.

They're holding her to her actions. Even if she's doing it because she's insecure that doesn't make everything ok.

Especially how it was portrayed. She had a voice of reason, but wouldn't listen. She wanted Dale to have ditched her or she wanted a excuse to ditch him.

J · « **Reply #337 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 18:57 »

Quote from: Emperor Norton on 13 Jul 2013, 16:28

Quote from: Tova on 12 Jul 2013, 19:11
Some people in this thread are as judgmental as Marigold is insecure.

Its not judgmental to recognize that someone is making huge missteps and the entire reason for it is ignoring all evidence to the contrary of their preconceived notions.

Pretending its all OK for someone to act like that because they were bullied in the past is just letting cycles of behavior continue indefinitely.

i don't remember, was it ever stated in the strip that she had been bullied, or is that just an assumption by the readers.

K1dmor · « **Reply #338 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 19:10 »

Quote from: J on 13 Jul 2013, 18:57

i don't remember, was it ever stated in the strip that she had been bullied, or is that just an assumption by the readers.

It was stated.

Tova · « **Reply #339 on:** 13 Jul 2013, 21:26 »

Quote from: Emperor Norton on 13 Jul 2013, 16:28

Its not judgmental to recognize that someone is making huge missteps and the entire reason for it is ignoring all evidence to the contrary of their preconceived notions.

Oh, I agree that she misstepped. I was referring to people throwing around words like 'jerk.'

Is it cold in here? · « **Reply #340 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 01:20 »

Marigold, listen to Momo. By now you should realize that she is perceptive, honest, and has your best interests at heart.

Masterpiece · « **Reply #341 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 02:45 »

Which is that much more fascinating, considering she doesn't have one.

TinPenguin · « **Reply #342 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 03:49 »

Quote from: J on 13 Jul 2013, 18:57

i don't remember, was it ever stated in the strip that she had been bullied, or is that just an assumption by the readers.

As well as the examples posted by K1dmor, there was also the noodle incident.

Mlle Germain · « **Reply #343 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 04:39 »

Quote from: DeusExLibris on 13 Jul 2013, 18:17

All there's really been from Marigold is the throwaway gag of not tipping him for being Alliance, and now this. All the rest of their little 'feud' was generated by Dale. Marigold's real problem is that since Dale showed himself the bigger man and tried to bury the hatchet, she's been unable to adjust. Since she got up this morning she's been behaving like the feud was still going, which I admit makes her look like pretty childish.

Quote from: Tova on 13 Jul 2013, 21:26

Oh, I agree that she misstepped. I was referring to people throwing around words like 'jerk.'

I agree with that. I think the people "defending" Marigold (like me) don't really think she behaved in a great way and everything she does is fine because she was bullied, but rather objected to her being called a jerk and her character being judged negatively as a whole. In my opinion, acting in a dumb and childish way sometimes, maybe even unintentially hurting someone in the process, does not automatically mean someone has a bad character or is a jerk or has a distorted version of reality or something like that. I think everyone "defending" Marigold rather wanted to point out that her behaviour might be understandable or could be explained regarding the history of Marigold's and Dale's previous interaction, not that it was good or excusable

Loki · « **Reply #344 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 05:00 »

Quote from: DeusExLibris on 13 Jul 2013, 18:17

All the rest of their little 'feud' was generated by Dale.

HISSSS.

Emperor Norton · « **Reply #345 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 06:19 »

I would point out that just because you call someone a jerk in one circumstance, doesn't mean that you necessarily think they are a jerk universally.

Marigold is being a jerk right now. That doesn't mean she is a jerk 100% of the time. I mean I described her as acting like a dick right now. That doesn't mean I think she is a dick all the time.

Pilchard123 · « **Reply #346 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 09:17 »

Quote from: TinPenguin on 14 Jul 2013, 03:49

As well as the examples posted by K1dmor, there was also the noodle incident.

And don't forget the other noodle incident.

DSL · « **Reply #347 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 10:28 »

Quote from: Emperor Norton on 13 Jul 2013, 16:28

... Pretending its all OK for someone to act like that because they were bullied in the past is just letting cycles of behavior continue indefinitely.

There's a difference between "pretending it's OK" and "understanding why."

Emperor Norton · « **Reply #348 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 12:55 »

Quote from: DSL on 14 Jul 2013, 10:28

Quote from: Emperor Norton on 13 Jul 2013, 16:28
... Pretending its all OK for someone to act like that because they were bullied in the past is just letting cycles of behavior continue indefinitely.

There's a difference between "pretending it's OK" and "understanding why."

See, that's the problem though, the person you are a dick to doesn't get the benefit of omniscient reader view. That is why even if there is a reason, its important to understand that its still not acceptable, and a reason is not an excuse.

The thing is that we all do things that aren't acceptable, we all screw up, but avoiding admitting that I'm being a jerk if I am doesn't HELP the situation, which is why I don't get people acting like calling her a jerk in this situation is in any way wrong. She is being a jerk. She may have reasons that make it understandable, but that doesn't make her not a jerk.

And like I said, being a jerk in one circumstance doesn't equal being a jerk overall.

jwhouk · « **Reply #349 on:** 14 Jul 2013, 13:08 »

Someone nudge Westrim, time to make the new week's thread.

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Author Topic: WCDT: 2485-2489 (8-12 July, 2013) (Read 57920 times)

852derek852