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[Sorflakne]

So I'm trying to teach myself javascript.  And when I say "trying", I mean "I am getting my ass royally handed to me".

Very little of this language is sticking.  I've read and reread passages and examples and tried out my own code, but it just will not click.  I understand a few individual aspects of it such as variables and functions, but trying to put them all together and construct my own examples, even when heavily modifying an existing example to make it my own, in practice just leaves me even more confused.

For learning material, I'm using O'Reilly's HeadFirst javascript book and going through the W3Schools site.  The Headfirst book I bought because their book on HTML and CSS was concise and made those two make sense; granted I'm no expert in them from reading one beginner's book, but I feel confident I can easily continue my self education in them.  Javascript though...no such luck.

So yeah...anyone else here know the language and/or have good methods of understanding how to develop and structure your own scripts (please keep it 'total n00b' friendly )?

[K1dmor]

 I'd recommend you this page: Codecademy. It's simple, you start with the basics, and it's easy to understand (and free).

 Here's the link to the Javascript part:
 Java

 If you register, you can check where you left the last time.

[Pilchard123]

I have no idea about how to go about learning it, though I'll second the recommendation of Codeacademy. If you want any help in particualr, post it up here and I'll (as will the many other beep-boopers around, no doubt) be happy to take a look at anything you're struggling with. I like Javascript.

Once you get further into Javascript, have a look at jQuery - it's really useful. Also try using Firebug if you're using Firefox - the console in that is great for testing stuff.

[Sorflakne]

I've tried CodeAcademy, but after the first few lessons, I just get lost.  The hints and error messages don't exactly help explain what/s missing/wrong in lines of code.

[snalin]

For development, I'd use chrome, since the chrome console (ctrl+shift+i) has a huge amount of stuff that's useful.

Be aware that javascript is a... fickle bitch. Since it's made to not fail on small errors, since that'd bother end users, errors usually propagate all the way through your code. The error messages you get are also platform dependent - you get different error messages in chrome than firefox, and they can also be... not very helpful. Also there are weird parts to it.

I've got spare time on my hands, so if you have time tomorrow, I could try and guide you through the CodeAcademy tutorials - just come hang out in Mumble. Just be aware that I'm in Norway, so that's GMT+1, so it'll have to be early in the day for you. Give me a PM if you're interested.

[Sorflakne]

Missed the above post because I decided to reformat my computer (and ran into...issues, but they're all better now!), however, I do have a question on arrays...

So here's a basic array:

<script>
var i;
var cars = new Array();
cars[0] = "Saab";
cars[1] = "Volvo";
cars[2] = "BMW";

for (i=0;i<cars.length;i++)
{
document.write(cars[i*] + "<*br>");
}
</script>


(*s are in the block to prevent the line from messing up, disregard them)
What does the line "for (i=0;i<cars.length;i++)" mean?  I know why it's there, but I don't quite know how to interpret it.  Is this format universal for arrays, or does it vary depending on whether the array is 1D or 2D?  And why is i less than cars.length? 

Funny enough, the above paragraph was a lot longer, but I answered a lot of it myself as I was writing my questions out, lol.

[cesium133]

That's the notation for a loop. It starts the variable i equal to zero, then runs the command inside the loop, adds 1 to i, then checks whether i is less than the length of the cars array. It repeats the command until i is equal to or greater than the length of the cars array.

The basic syntax is
for(initial condition; test; increment command)
{
  command(s) to be repeated
}

[pwhodges]

And the reason for using < "less than" is that for three elements we are using the indices 0, 1 and 2 - but not 3, so when i=3 (i<3 is no longer true) we need to end the loop.  cars.length is the number of elements in cars, unsurprisingly.

This format of loop was introduced in C in 1972.

[snalin]

So, what happens is:

You make a variable named "i", and assign 0 to it. i is now 0.

Every time, before you do what is in the loop*, the conditional (i < cars.length) is tested. If it evaluates to false (i is larger or equal to the length of cars), the loop is not run, and the code passes on. This means that if you hadn't added anything to cars, so cars is 0, the stuff in the loop never happens. Note that you don't have to compare to the length of cars, you could put 3 there, and it would do the same thing. If you wrote i < 2, it would only print out "Saab" and "Volvo".

Every time, after you do what is in the loop, the value of i is incremented by one**.

Something which will do the exact same as what you did above, but is more easily readable, is:

Code: [Select]

var i = 0;
var cars = new Array();
cars[0] = "Saab";
cars[1] = "Volvo";
cars[2] = "BMW";

while(i < cars.length) {
  document.write(cars[i] + "<*br>");
  i++;
}

With regards to your question about whether it is universal for arrays, yes. If you have a 2d array, that is simply an array that contains arrays in every cell; an array of arrays. You can go down that rabbit hole as far as you want; 3 dimensional or 4 dimensional arrays are totally possible. You can also (in JS) have arrays that contains arrays in some cells, numbers in others and strings in yet others, this is a horrible idea.

I cooked up an example. The only thing of note that might not be straightforward is the use of console.log instead of document.write. It logs to your console, which can be found in chrome with ctrl+shift+j, or in firefox with ctrl+shift+k. It allows you to check what's happening in your code without editing how your web page looks, so you'll need to do that later on, so it's smart to start out doing it now.
So, example of use of 2d array, with 2d lookup. Copy it to a text document, put <html> and <script> tags around it, and open it in your browser of choice. Then open the console and see what a horrible person Tina is. Play around with it!

Code: [Select]

var persons = new Array();

var tom = new Array();
tom[0] = "Tom";
tom[1] = "www.Tom.com";
tom[2] = "Lasanga";

var carl = new Array();
carl[0] = "Carl";
carl[1] = "www.Carl.com";
carl[2] = "Pizza";

var tina = new Array();
tina[0] = "Tina";
tina[1] = "www.Tina.com";
tina[2] = "The Blood of the innocent";

persons[0] = tom;
persons[1] = carl;
persons[2] = tina;

for(var i = 0; i < persons.length; i++) {
console.log("Person number " + (i+1) + ":");
console.log("Name: " + persons[i][0]);
console.log("Web Page: " + persons[i][1]);
console.log("Favourite Dish: " + persons[i][2]);
console.log("\n"); //New line
}

*document.write(cars) etc. You can put as many lines as you want in there. You can also assign new values to i, which will do funny things to your code.

** These are equivalent:

Code: [Select]

i++;
i += 1;
i = i+1;

EDIT: offer to guide you though some examples over voice chat still stands! Or text chat if you are shy. Or just post more questions here. But I'd love to talk you through some stuff! I'm going to be a teachers assistant at basic level Java this semester, and I've only done higher levels before, so some experience with someone who's entirely fresh would be cool.

[Sorflakne]

Ok, so it's safe to assume that i=0 by default all the time then?

@snalin:  Eh, probably stick to posts for now.  Your example array is interesting, I'll have to mess around with it more before I feel confident on it, but it definitely made array structure clearer for me.

[pwhodges]

Ok, so it's safe to assume that i=0 by default all the time then?

Not necessarily; there are many reasons why one might want to loop (for instance) from the last element to the first, or over only a subset of the elements.

[snalin]

Yes, if you want to loop from last to first, you do:

Code: [Select]

for(var i = cars.length-1; i >= 0; i--) {

}

There's a couple of points here that's important too:
- There is no reason other than convention to use the variable name i in the loop. You could do for(var allTheBears = 0; allTheBears < cars.length etc. etc.
- Note that when you loop backwards, you have to start at length-1, while the -1 doesn't show up if you go forwards. I've also used >= on the comparison. Try to figure out why, it'll help you understand what's going on. Remember that if there's 3 elements in the array, they are indexed from 0 to 2 (n elements means indexing from 0 to n-1)

On vars, javascript is a bit wonky. If you haven't defined i anywhere, and then do this:

Code: [Select]

console.log(i);
var i;
console.log(i);
i = 5;
console.log(i);

The two first console.log statements will print "undefined", as i is... not defined. On the other hand, you can write

Code: [Select]

i = 5;
console.log(i);

and get it to print 5 as expected - the "var" statement isn't needed per se (unlike other languages). It is a really good idea to use it, though - it limits the scope of the variable, which is a more advanced topic, but an important one - when you start writing methods, it will show up to bite you in the ass if you don't use it.

[Loki]

There is no reason other than convention to use the variable name i in the loop.

That convention being derived from i being the first letter of the word "iterate" (go through, step by step).

(I am mainly commenting so that this thread goes on my "unread replies to your posts" list).

[pwhodges]

I suspect that it goes right back to it being the first letter of the group that defined variables starting with those letters (I-N) as being INTEGER rather than REAL in the original Fortran - so i for "integer", before anyone used fancy words like "iteration"!

[cesium133]

I know this isn't really related to the thread, but... Oh God, I hate programs that do that in Fortran. "I wonder what this variable is" *goes looking for declaration* "It's not declared!" Implicit None is your friend. 

[pwhodges]

IMPLICIT wasn't in the language when I was using it...  When there's no alternative, the defaults are easy enough to read so long as they are stuck to.

[cesium133]

Yes, but there are still Fortran programs I've come across that don't use it.

[ev4n]

Code: [Select]

for(var i = cars.length-1; i >= 0; i--) {

}


I do'nt know enough about Java to say for sure, but your code made me wince.

(click to show/hide)

While I would imagine i is signed, your code fails spectacularly if it's unsigned.  Maybe that's more of a C concern, though.

Of course, you probably knew that.

[Sorflakne]

Ok, that makes sense on i...pretty much no indication was given as to why i seems so important in the material I'm using (I've switched over to W3Schools completely, they've made the most sense so far). 

Now I'm running into another problem, and I cannot figure out why this is happening.  A little backstory: I'm creating what amounts to a "test" or "basic reference" page of some of the stuff I've learned so far (most everything else I've written in a notebook).  It's pretty much all simple stuff like "Push this button for a message popup" and different ways of making it do that, and a couple random stuffs tied to what time of day it is.  In other words, a beginners reference pool of examples with short explanations following each block of code.

The problem now, is that whenever I try adding a block of text to the page that describes something that, ironically, is about error messages, the page just displays "Error" whenever I load it up.  However, if I delete a particular line from this paragraph, the page loads as normal.  The paragraph where this is happening is enclosed by simple <p></p>, and has no scripts or other HTML in it and is otherwise not tied to any other block of code on the page at all (well, maybe not entirely, see below).  Even putting the line in its own paragraph does not solve the problem, and it's a line that I kind of need in the description for it to make sense; it's a sentence about not defining the script as "text/javascript" in the <script> tag, but even when I break it up and make it as uncode-like as possible, it still returns "Error".  It seems that if the word "script" appears in the sentence, the page fails (I had to spell it as s-cript for it to not break the page), and even having parenthesis in the paragraph block does it too.  I've no idea how or why this is causing problems.

Edit: It seems I can't add anything to the page now without causing the "Error" to display, regardless of where I add stuff on the page...

-

Another problem I've noticed is that after doing a document.write example of displaying the heading sizes from 1 to 6 in descending order, all the text below this is now in heading 6 format.  None of the subsequent stuff is tied to it, but I can't break it away from the heading 6 size.  Not sure how to begin fixing this one...

[pwhodges]

Have you closed your <h6> with a </h6>?

In programming, or HTML, or just about anything to do with computers, understanding the strictness of the requirement to bracket things and match bracketed structures in the right places is crucial.  When you are writing code to output HTML it gets more complex because the bracketed structures in the HTML are not nested in the same universe (as it were) as the bracketed structures in the code... The fact that in some circumstances you can get away without closing brackets just complicates things - think in terms of always closing structures properly even if you think you don't have to and (a) life will actually get simpler and (b) your HTML will have a better chance of validating in the end.

[Masterpiece]

In addition to what pwhodges said, do you use an assisted editor integrated development environment? Like, one that points out when you don't close brackets or finish statements and such?

[snalin]

The problem now, is that whenever I try adding a block of text to the page that describes something that, ironically, is about error messages, the page just displays "Error" whenever I load it up.  However, if I delete a particular line from this paragraph, the page loads as normal.  The paragraph where this is happening is enclosed by simple <p></p>, and has no scripts or other HTML in it and is otherwise not tied to any other block of code on the page at all (well, maybe not entirely, see below).  Even putting the line in its own paragraph does not solve the problem, and it's a line that I kind of need in the description for it to make sense; it's a sentence about not defining the script as "text/javascript" in the <script> tag, but even when I break it up and make it as uncode-like as possible, it still returns "Error".  It seems that if the word "script" appears in the sentence, the page fails (I had to spell it as s-cript for it to not break the page), and even having parenthesis in the paragraph block does it too.  I've no idea how or why this is causing problems.

A pretty important thing to remember is that your javascript (the stuff that (usually) goes between your <script> tags) and the html is really separate entities. If the particular line of code that seems to be breaking things is containing the string <script>, the web page will interpret the rest of the page, all the way until it reaches </script>, as javascript, not html. Since what you've got right after <script> starts probably doesn't contain something that's formatted in legal javascript, you get javascript errors, as the interpretation fails. That could be it, I'd have to look at your code to be sure (if you put it in a google doc? Or just post a link to it somewhere?), but it's the only explanation I can come up with.

Code: [Select]

for(var i = cars.length-1; i >= 0; i--) {

}


I do'nt know enough about Java to say for sure, but your code made me wince.

(click to show/hide)

While I would imagine i is signed, your code fails spectacularly if it's unsigned.  Maybe that's more of a C concern, though.

Of course, you probably knew that.

javascript is NOT java*. At all. It has no signage, whatsoever, just a var statement that does nothing but limiting the scope of the variable. You can do this:

Code: [Select]

var s = "string";
console.log(s); //prints string
s = 1;
console.log(s); //prints 1

See? A variable isn't tied to any kind of type whatsoever. You will get problems when trying to do stuff with different types, you can't go "hello" / 4. The classes and objects are also a lot less strict what you have in java/c++, you can just add properties and methods to an object at will. An object is kinda just a map from variable names to whatever. var object = {}; is an object instantiation. Blew my mind when I first ran into it. Javascript is weird around the edges, check out the later half of this video (check the first part out too, the ruby part is also funny)

The var statement is important, though. Amongst other things, it prevents this fun little thing:

Code: [Select]

var someArr = new Array(2);
someArr [0] = "hellu";
someArr [1] = "hella";

function swap(arr, ind1, ind2) {
  temp = arr[ind1];
  arr[ind1] = arr[ind2];
  arr[ind2] = temp;
};

swap(someArr, 0, 1);

console.log(temp); //WILL log "hellu". I am NOT kidding. If i had written "var temp" over, it would throw an undefined error, as you'd expect from any other language.

It is horrible at start, but you get used to it. If you tried to do something like that in java, you'd get compilation errors right away. Think of java as c++ without having to deal with pointer arithmetic or segfaults and the other things that makes c/c++ a complete fucking mess. Javascript is a lot more lenient than anything else - basically the idea is that it shouldn't fail on type errors, since it has to deal with user input to such a degree that it would crash all the times otherwise. I'm not sure if I agree with that philosophy, but you have to live with it.


* I don't quite remember why javascript is named javascript, but I've heard it said that around when javascript first popped up, java was kinda hip, so they just grabbed the name.

[pwhodges]

It was developed by NetScape under the name Mocha, and added to their Navigator browser as LiveScript.  The name change to JavaScript was at the same time as Java support was first added to Navigator, and may have been a misguided attempt to piggyback on the popularity of the hot new thing.  It is now also standardised under the name ECMAscript.

[Loki]

If the particular line of code that seems to be breaking things is containing the string <script>, the web page will interpret the rest of the page, all the way until it reaches </script>, as javascript, not html. Since what you've got right after <script> starts probably doesn't contain something that's formatted in legal javascript, you get javascript errors, as the interpretation fails. That could be it, I'd have to look at your code to be sure (if you put it in a google doc? Or just post a link to it somewhere?), but it's the only explanation I can come up with.

So basically you are suggesting he needs to put his code examples inside a <textarea></textarea> tag or that he has to html-encode his tags, writng &lt;script&gt; in his examples when he wants <script> to be displayed?

[snalin]

Something along those lines, will still have to see the code. I made an attempt; here's what I found. This crashes with "Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token !":

Code: [Select]

<p> This is some text that talks about the <script> tag! </p>

<h1> This is not written to the page, it stops after "the" </h1>

<script>
</script>

As is expected, it find some garbled javascript, and fails. The second opening script tag is interpreted not as html, but javascript. If you use textarea, it works, I don't quite know why, but hey. If you do this:

Code: [Select]

<p> This is some text that talks about the <script> tag! </p>

<h1> This is not written to the page, it stops after "the" </h1>

You still stop at the, but no errors is thrown. Which is strange, but I suppose the browser is still expecting input of a final </script> token.

[Sorflakne]

Have you closed your <h6> with a </h6>?

No, it's not actually written out, but is a do...while loop.  Is written like this:

Code: [Select]

<script type="text/javascript">
i = 1
do {
document.write("<h" + i + ">This is heading " + i);
document.write("<h" + i + ">");
i++;
}
while (i <= 6)
</script>
I've tried inserting a break; statement, but that doesn't seem to do anything.  Can break; be used here and I'm just not placing it right, or do I need a different statement to keep the loop contained to the script?

In addition to what pwhodges said, do you use an assisted editor integrated development environment? Like, one that points out when you don't close brackets or finish statements and such?

I'm not...do you know of a good one?  I'm mainly using Notepad and the W3 example pages.

A pretty important thing to remember is that your javascript (the stuff that (usually) goes between your <script> tags) and the html is really separate entities. If the particular line of code that seems to be breaking things is containing the string <script>, the web page will interpret the rest of the page, all the way until it reaches </script>, as javascript, not html....

But there's no <script> tag in the paragraph, just the word "script", no markers or anything around it.

Oddly enough, it seemed to work fine when I copied the code from the W3 example page into a Notepad page, saved it there, and opened it that way...

* I don't quite remember why javascript is named javascript, but I've heard it said that around when javascript first popped up, java was kinda hip, so they just grabbed the name.

That's the story I heard too.  Along with something about having computer languages share similar names to organize them or something.  Yeah, didn't quite work out that way...

[pwhodges]

If that's a true copy of your code, you simply forgot to include the / in the closing tags.

document.write("<h" + i + ">This is heading " + i);
document.write("</h" + i + ">");

[snalin]

In addition to what pwhodges said, do you use an assisted editor integrated development environment? Like, one that points out when you don't close brackets or finish statements and such?

I'm not...do you know of a good one?  I'm mainly using Notepad and the W3 example pages.

I'd suggest at least upgrading to notepad++ if you're on windows. It's not an IDE per se, but it has a bit of syntax highlighting for javascript/html. You could also go for something bigger, that would shout at you if you do something wrong during writing, and gives you access to built-in functions in an easy way.

[Masterpiece]

I voulda sworn I had Dreamweaver here somewhere...

[Sorflakne]

It's always a missing /...     It works now, though.

I'd suggest at least upgrading to notepad++ if you're on windows. It's not an IDE per se, but it has a bit of syntax highlighting for javascript/html.

I'll check it out.  I miss way too many closing / ' " ] etc...I'm surprised I haven't started pulling my hair out yet.

I'd love to get Dreamweaver, but I don't have the funds to spend on it yet.

Edit: Ok yeah, I'm already liking Notepad++.  I'm tempted to turn on autocomplete so that every [] {} <> etc is automatically closed when entered, but I know that that'd just make my habit of forgetting to close them worse.

[cesium133]

I always turn that feature off because I end up not noticing that it closed the bracket, and I close it again.

[celticgeek]

Back when I was programming for Windows, I used Notepad++ and loved it. 

[Masterpiece]

I always turn that feature off because I end up not noticing that it closed the bracket, and I close it again.

I love that Eclipse anticipates and reacts to this by just doing it right and ignoring brackets when you add a bracket at a place where Eclipse auto-predicted that you'd place them.

[Loki]

Oh, in case you haven't already: get used to writing both the opening and the closing bracket right at the start. That way you are less likely to forget to close them. Also, you should get used to finishing every line with a semicolon. It looks neater. (There was a nother reason for why you'd do that, but I cannot think of it right now.)

[Stybar]

Because it used to be neccesary, I believe. That's how I was taught it, anyhow.

And if you find the right environment, you don't have to worry about brackets. The program I use, IntelliJ, may not be the best there is, but it automatically fills out brackets, fixes syntax errors, and even creates getters, setters, imports,...

[snalin]

On the semicolon thing - javascript works without the semicolons. There is one place where it is needed, and that is something like_

Code: [Select]

a = b + c
(d+e).print()

will be parsed as:

Code: [Select]

a = b + c(d+e).print()

So a new line starting with parentheses will be used as method arguments if possible.

[Loki]

Huh. The more you know.

[Masterpiece]

A semicolon is needed in Java (and probably a lot more programming languages, but I can't be certain) to signal the end of an expression statement. Since every other statement includes at least one expression, most "lines" are ended by a semicolon. If I remember correctly, groups of expressions (curly brackets) and conditions are an exemption to that rule.

Code: [Select]

private boolean isMasterpieceMakingSense{ // oh yeah, method declarations also don't end with semicolons, but they're also a group of statements anyway... 
     if(!isMasterpieceTalkingBonkers && isCodeExampleCorrect){ // start of a group of statements, no semicolon
          logging.put("Heck yeah, I made it!"); // semicolon after an expression!
          return true; // semicolon after an expression!
     }else{ // no semicolon after the first bracket, and none after the else statement
          logging.put("Awww, bonkers."); // another expression
          return false; // last expression
     }
} // end of method declaration, no semicolon.

[Stybar]

Why did you name a method isTalkingBonkers if your returning false when you ARE talking bonkers?

[Loki]

More importantly, why is isMasterpieceMakingSense not a function?

[Masterpiece]

Why did you name a method isTalkingBonkers if your returning false when you ARE talking bonkers?

Oh. Damn. You're absolutely right. Semantics. Damn you.
I could make the code work but it would look ugly.

More importantly, why is isMasterpieceMakingSense not a function?

Same as the above. OH WAIT THAT GAVE ME A GREAT IDEA!

[Stybar]

More importantly, why is isMasterpieceMakingSense not a function?

Didn't even see that. Damn.

[Loki]

Technically speaking, it could still be a function, of course.

[Stybar]

In Java, yes. But in Javascript?

[Loki]

Everything is a variable in Javascript. Even functions.

Check this out:

Code: (Javascript) [Select]

function isThisAFunction(){}

document.write(typeof isThisAFunction+"<br>");

if (isThisAFunction) {
document.write("isThisAFunction evaluates to true when passed to an if, because the if checks for existence"+"<br>");
}
else
{
document.write("isThisAFunction evaluates to false"+"<br>");
}

if (isThisAFunction==true) {
document.write("isThisAFunction is the same as true"+"<br>");
}
else
{
document.write("isThisAFunction is, however, not the same as true, even by lax comparison"+"<br>");
}
isThisAFunction = 5;
document.write(typeof isThisAFunction+"<br>");

The result:

function
isThisAFunction evaluates to true when passed to an if, because if checks for existence
isThisAFunction is, however, not the same as true, even by lax comparison
number

Also,

function isThisAFunction(){}

is functionally () equivalent to

isThisAFunction=function(){} 

[Sorflakne]

So wait, ; are NOT required in javascript?  But my scripts seem to break if I forget one...unless I'm imagining things.

[snalin]

If you're writing on a site, they might be using an extra static checker. If you are doing several things on one line (like inside a for loop), they are necessary, for the parser to tell one statement from the next. Otherwise, well, not really, but you should use them anyways. They add clarity to your code (yes I DID mean to end the statement there, I didn't just accidentally press enter at one point), and as most languages with syntax similar to JS has mandatory semicolons, most people who will read your code will be used to them.

[Stybar]

As Snalin said, semicolons may not be neccesary in a language, but it's considered good practice to do so. Same as naming your variables properly ("counter1" doesn't make much sense, "clickCounter" does), correct writing of variables (capital letters!), proper decleration of your variables,...
Learning to code is one thing, but to code well is something else.

[snalin]

Problem is, of course, that what nice code should look like... not set in stone. As many opinions as programmers. Don't get me started on tab vs. spaces discussions, or inline ifs or... jeez. Consistency is always a virtue, though. Find something that looks good, and stick to it. If you're working on an open source project or with a company, find out what the current style of the project is, and use that.

[Sorflakne]

Ah ok.  Gonna keep the ;'s then, since I'm still getting used to the code.

Ok, here's another thing I've run into, and it took some hair pulling and whatnot to figure out.  Here's code for two buttons:

Code: [Select]

<button onclick="timedCount()">Start count</button>

<input type="button" value="Start count" onClick="timedCount()" />
Both point to the same function when placed in the same block of code, but for some reason, only the top one works (this is for a basic timer; text of the function is the same for both attempts).  The second one creates a button, but its nonfunctioning.  I've had this happen several other times, and each time when I went back and changed the code from the second format to the first's, then it works fine.  What causes one to work and the other to not?

Edit: Ok I just did another timer code for practice, and now the second button code works, but the first one doesn't.  Wtf.