Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT: 2776-2780 (25-29 August 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread
Smallest:
--- Quote from: Jazzmaster on 26 Aug 2014, 05:35 ---
--- Quote from: Bob of the South on 26 Aug 2014, 05:23 ---First time poster, here. Hi everyone!
I've honestly been a little taken aback by the responses about Sven's confession. I don't see how its an awful thing to do at all. He didn't try to force or coerce her into doing anything, but gave her information she would need to make a choice, which she did (even if it wasn't the decision Sven wanted her to make). The idea that a grown woman just shouldn't be able to make the choice herself seems...odd to me.
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I'd like to add to this that at the end of his meeting with Faye, Sven seem reluctant to doing it but actually seemed somewhat accepting of her decision, even though he wasn't terribly happy with it. And even though in his meeting with Steve he was a little bit bitter and "whiny" about it, he still made no indication that he planned to cross further boundaries.
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This is what I was trying to say but I think you worded it better.
--- Quote from: Mr_Rose on 26 Aug 2014, 04:59 ---The only thing Faye truly has to be upset about is the blatant deception the two of them are engaged in, since it sort of implies that at least one of them doesn't believe she will react favourably so they're lying and hiding instead of being honest. The trouble is that Faye is more likely to react badly to the dishonesty than to the original situation and that won't go down easily at all…
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Yes, especially from Marten and Dora. At least they don't live together all three anymore, that would make this interesting.
--- Quote from: Somnus Eternus on 26 Aug 2014, 05:45 ---
--- Quote from: Socky on 26 Aug 2014, 05:43 ---Why would Dora tell this to Marten, probably Faye's closest friend, in CoD while Faye's there and tell him not to tell her?
Why tell Marten at all?
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Because Marten is also her good friend and is likely to provide a more level-headed response than Faye is.
I also strongly disagree with this idea that people are throwing around that Sven hitting on Faye is none of Dora's business, and Dora cutting Sven out of her life is none of Faye's. They're not just coworkers - they're also close friends. In that sense, of course something like that would be the business of the other, in the sense that they'd each be concerned about the other's well being. It's not to say that either are obligated to share that information with the other, but let's not pretend that either situation wouldn't have an impact on the other person.
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I agree with the second part of your post, but regarding Marten- still, why at CoD, in front of Faye, and then ask for it to be secret? If she's going to keep it a secret (see below), she should have waited for Faye's break or talked to Marten aside or something, although those would have interfered with her fake happy thing.
--- Quote from: techkid on 26 Aug 2014, 06:39 ---Wow. 24-ish hours gone, three pages of discussion/rant/whatever.
On comic: Not telling Faye about Dora's decision is probably OK for the moment. Faye has enough on her plate to worry about, and this would probably only compound it.
By the same token, Faye should be informed of this. Preferably from Marten or Dora. Why? Well, Dora is doing this because dumping emotional baggage on someone you love, regardless of whether the feeling is reciprocated, is not cool. I still stand by my belief that Dora is doing the right thing in the worst possible way, but since she is doing it anyway, it should be done properly at least. By telling Faye why she is doing this, Faye can give her thoughts on whether Dora is doing the right thing or not.
Edit: Hearing this from a third person (or worse still, Sven), would be more damaging than anything. Thoughts that spring to mind would be that this is somehow her fault, which would be like taking out key support struts in a mineshaft. Crushing damage included.
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Yeah, that. I understand delaying telling a bit may be for the best- she hasn't spoken to Sven or her parents yet, after all- but not telling Faye or letting a third party won't go well.
Also, regarding how rational anger at Dora would be: Faye didn't seem to take the situation as all that bad. Eventually, she's going to find out that a conversation that was just annoying, if a bit disconcerting based on timing, to her led to Dora estranging herself. That would be probably pretty confusing and pissing-off to find out.
I don't know. If I exchange words with someone, I generally don't expect to later find out that their family estranged them based on me.
--- Quote from: CaptainFish on 26 Aug 2014, 07:33 ---Well he also manipulated Marten into lying to an ex-girlfriend when they met. She didn't have a great opinion of him, so there's probably some manipulation or at least lack-of-communication leading to Sven and the women he hooks up with having different ideas of what they want.
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While kinda shitty, I wouldn't call this manipulation (and I think we can place the kick in 'the comic used to be more physical' category).
Although I guess we may be looking at manipulation differently. I'd say mine is close to the wikipedia summary.
(click to show/hide)
--- Quote ---Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others through underhanded, deceptive, or even abusive tactics. By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at another's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative, abusive, devious, and deceptive. Social influence is not necessarily negative. For example, doctors can try to persuade patients to change unhealthy habits. Social influence is generally perceived to be harmless when it respects the right of the influenced to accept or reject and is not unduly coercive.
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Bolds to cherry pick for relevance. Sven wasn't exactly polite in begging Marten to help, but he didn't try to give him no other option. Even when he rushed him out of the bathroom, Marten could have just walked away, but he decided himself to sit down with the chick.
--- Quote from: dawolf on 26 Aug 2014, 07:16 --- (click to show/hide)I don't understand why what Sven's done (right now) is so bad. Dora states..."you know everything Sven's done."
What has he done, to Dora?
Been more popular than her (not his fault)
Been the target for her girlfriends (not his fault)
Slept around (how does that hurt Dora? It's questionable if it even hurts the women in question, depending on whether he's being honest with them)
Gone out with Faye (not a problem)
Cheated on Faye (his fault - and the mistake)
Realised he made a mistake and told Faye he loves her (questionable whether this is even a problem, and nothing to do with Dora).
He also
Acted like a gentleman towards Hannelore
Helped Dora get over Marten
Gave Dora a place to stay when she left Marten
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I mostly agree, so +1, and also I will stick here that I don't think much can/has happened off screen. The comic tends to be pretty linear, and as someone said, that would be bad storytelling, especially if Dora confirms stuff happened off screen all in a big speech bubble to Marten or something. I don't see it happening
QuestionableIntentions:
--- Quote from: dawolf on 26 Aug 2014, 07:16 ---
--- Quote from: Bob of the South on 26 Aug 2014, 05:23 ---First time poster, here. Hi everyone!
I've honestly been a little taken aback by the responses about Sven's confession. I don't see how its an awful thing to do at all. He didn't try to force or coerce her into doing anything, but gave her information she would need to make a choice, which she did (even if it wasn't the decision Sven wanted her to make). The idea that a grown woman just shouldn't be able to make the choice herself seems...odd to me.
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First time poster here as well.
I don't understand why what Sven's done (right now) is so bad. Dora states..."you know everything Sven's done."
What has he done, to Dora?
Been more popular than her (not his fault)
Been the target for her girlfriends (not his fault)
Slept around (how does that hurt Dora? It's questionable if it even hurts the women in question, depending on whether he's being honest with them)
Gone out with Faye (not a problem)
Cheated on Faye (his fault - and the mistake)
Realised he made a mistake and told Faye he loves her (questionable whether this is even a problem, and nothing to do with Dora).
He also
Acted like a gentleman towards Hannelore
Helped Dora get over Marten
Gave Dora a place to stay when she left Marten
Why does she think he's such a bad guy?
The problem here is that Dora has unrealistic expectations of other people. They have to meet her perceived value of perfect to be ok.
Sven's a more likeable (and less toxic) character IMO....
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Yes! Thank you. How exactly is Sven a "toxic" or even bad person? Dora's issues with him are hers and hers alone.
FunkyTuba:
IMO it would help to be clear about the Sven/Faye interaction. Separating the "Sven burdened Faye with his feelings for her while she's in a relationship" from "Faye was feeling particularly torn-up about her relationship" is kind of important.
As far as I could tell Sven did *not* intentionally wait until a time when Faye was vulnerable and spring this on her when he knew she was weak. It looks to me like this was Author-Induced Bad Timing For Dramatic Purposes (there must be a Trope for this).
It seems like Dora might be conflating the two ( the way it seems like some people here are ;) ) and is (again IMO) overreacting. Perhaps she's doing so because of years of her own baggage filled up by Sven pulling stuff like this in the past, and in this case for once it was not his intention.
aphanisis81:
I don't even find the highly-sitcomish hiding-in-the-bathroom arc to be that horrible an indicator of Sven's character. Sure, he was cheating on a girl, but come on, that's a thing that happens. And there was no indication that he and Genevieve were more than a pretty casual hookup.
Roping Marten into helping him out? OK, not really Marten's sort of thing, but not exactly beyond the pale, either.
If one person comes off like a lunatic in that arc, it's Faye. Especially her line "You should apologize to people you've genuinely hurt, like Genevieve"...I feel like Sven's proper response to that would have been "Um, you have no idea what my situation with Genevieve was like. If you want me to feel bad for getting your former Man-Bitch who's now railing my sister involved, fine. But you're in no position to judge what happened with G."
And then she goes along to the hospital just to throw in a few more insults and muttered acrimony. Pretty lame.
Bob of the South:
Honestly, I think recent events have made me realize that the main trio of characters (Marten, Faye, and Dora) are capable of forgiving themselves and each other of everything while condemning others for much less. It's understandable among friends, but annoyingly cliquish.
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