Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2887-2891 (2-6 February 2015)
cesium133:
--- Quote from: explicit on 08 Feb 2015, 16:39 ---I crunched the numbers and I keep coming back to puppies and/or kittens.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure the correct solution is:
Silverzippo:
(Funny how this last update got people to register, huh? :) Yeah I'm one of those people.)
Note that the below is my opinion, not what I want changed, not what I believe should be different and not a message telling anyone they're wrong.
Since genuine AI's are part of the comic universe, Marten being so open minded is not exactly pushing my suspension of disbelief, but it does get a bit confusing when so much of the comic is relatable to what's going on in the real world, at least socially.
Were it in real life, I'd say he's being open minded to a fault, where he prioritizes the opinions of others over his own self. I'd say this is definitely one of his faults, but I can't give an example off-hand. Basically, it's not super believable but I'm okay with it.
From my own experience as a bisexual (pansexual for those who feel the distinction is necessary), I had a few moments of doubt and more than a bit of awkwardness when I was with a pre-op transwoman for the first time. Marten just being cool with it seems... off.
I guess you could chalk it up to being confident or truly accepting, but I really think that for him it's another sign of low confidence where he just goes with the flow and suppresses what he might really feel.
On another note, I would've found it more interesting if he chickened out then and there. For one, it would make him more interesting and second, it's okay to admit that you've made a mistake (as in telling Claire that he's been cool with it, when he's not, but not knowing until that moment).
Either way, it's been a nice development that I've enjoyed a lot. At the very least it's an interesting topic to discuss!
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Since I don't know much about Jeph; Is Marten an extension of himself?
I don't know if this is a thing or not, I'm curious.
TieDyeKat:
I'm still wondering why Marten's orientation, much less anyone else's in the strip, matters.
Aziraphale:
--- Quote from: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Feb 2015, 15:22 ---
--- Quote from: Aziraphale on 08 Feb 2015, 14:42 ---
--- Quote from: ReindeerFlotilla on 08 Feb 2015, 13:28 ---
--- Quote from: Aziraphale on 08 Feb 2015, 10:03 ---RF: Okay, maybe not fluidity, since you find that "clangy".
--- End quote ---
I don't find applying labels to Marten clangy. I find the need to justify his choices by appealing to his childhood clangy. As in, nobody is appealing to Faye's childhood to justify her straightness.
If there's nothing special, on a fundamental level, about being trans--if there's nothing special about being attracted to and romantically engaged with a trans person--then there's no more need to appeal to explanation with regard to Marten's sexuality than there is for Dora's, or Tai's, or Steve's, or Faye's...
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Second point first: I don't think it necessarily needs to be explained (as I mentioned). That's their business, not ours. To your first point... No, you wouldn't look to Faye's childhood for clues about her approach to her sexuality. But if you were talking about her trust issues? Her alcoholism? At least one, maybe two, suicide attempts? Her casual disrespect for boundaries? The (thankfully toned down) violence? It'd be silly not to. Ditto, say, Hanners' issues, or Dora's complicated relationship with her brother and her parents (among other things). In other words, when a character's perception, attitudes and actions are clearly influenced by their past, it can be useful to examine that past and how it colors the present, and that's something that isn't in any way exclusive to sexuality. If we were talking about, say, Marten's taste in beer, then I'd agree with you that it's silly (unless there's some heretofore unexplored link between a spanking and a ten-minute IPA, in which case I take that back). But we're not, and to think that he'd have grown up around the kinds of people he did would have no impact on how he thinks about Claire seems to me a bit short-sighted.
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I didn't say anything about no impacts. You seem to be having an argument with someone who isn't here.
What I said was, right or wrong, bucky's questioning of Marten's sexuality was no more or less clangy than people looking for a reason to justify Marten's sexuality. I'm not saying putting two and two together and getting "fluid," is verboten. But then neither was buckys POV verboten. Just factually incorrect.
All things being equal, given what we know, questions about what Claire has in her pants are valid by your logic. That two and two are present doesn't justify adding them. If Marten represented as a person historically oppressed for his sexuality, discussion about how his mom's job made him queer would definitely be considered bad taste.
My argument is not for "equal rights for straight people." My argument is that the discussion boils down to "What turned Marten queer?" just using different labels. Given the history of oppression that line of thinking has created, I find the discussion to be in bad taste.
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Lemme try this again, since A: I don't seem to be making myself very clear, and B: each of us seems to be talking somewhat past the other. I know that isn't my intention, and I don't think it's yours either.
Not going to bite on the "what makes someone (fill in the blank)". I come down pretty firmly on the side of nature, not nurture. If you want to discuss that further, this probably isn't the best place for that (and I'll let you know in advance that you're not likely to change my mind on that point). But then, that wasn't my point.
Neither was my point that we should speculate on Claire's genitalia. As you'll no doubt have noticed in my previous two postings on this, and which I'll repeat a third time for emphasis, that's between Marten and Claire.
I'm not arguing "equal rights for straight people," either. We've already got plenty, thanks, and the larger issue, I still think, is getting everyone else to a point where they have the same rights I've already got, whether it's marriage or the simple right to exist without risk of physical harm (or worse) on the basis of their mere existence.
I'm also not looking, or asking, for some kind of "justification" of anyone's sexual expression. Here, as elsewhere, as long as it's among consenting adults and everybody respects everybody else's boundaries, it's all good.
And at the same time, I'm not arguing for Marten's suddenly having become pan, bi or queer (absent Word of Jeph). Yeah, he's straight, period. But as we've already seen on the forums (and as I'm sure you've seen outside them, same as I have), and as we could reasonably infer from the comic, people do tend to think about sex. A lot. Like, a lot a lot. It wouldn't be unreasonable, then, to figure that Marten's thought, or is thinking through, some of the possibilities as far as where things are going with Claire, as well as the impact of that on both their lives. Also, for as much of a non-issue as Claire's trans-ness apparently is to Marten, we'd have reason to believe -- based on repeated and frankly dismaying real-life evidence, as well as allusions in-comic by Clinton -- that it may not be quite as much a non-issue to those Marten knows, and that may also factor into his thinking. While I'd wager most of his friends would be as accepting as he is, all it takes is one person to fuck things up for everybody.
Hope this clarifies things somewhat.
wlewisiii:
--- Quote from: cesium133 on 08 Feb 2015, 17:16 ---
--- Quote from: explicit on 08 Feb 2015, 16:39 ---I crunched the numbers and I keep coming back to puppies and/or kittens.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure the correct solution is:
--- End quote ---
And here I thought the solution to that equation _had_ to be 42... 8-)
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