Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

WCDT 2912 to 2916 (9-13 March 2015)

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ReindeerFlotilla:
I remember when the only evidence that Faye was "squishy" was Faye saying she was squishy, and Dora commenting on the size of her butt. Claire used to be ganglier. So much so, that she actually looks shorter to me now. If she is drawn shorter, though, it's by a hair.

Marten used to be less scarecrow looking and before that he was more scarecrow looking. Steve used to be the Player 2 version of Marten. My favorite rendering of Dora looked nothing like Marten. The current version only sometimes resembles him, but there was period where they really did look like variations on a theme.

I guess I'm saying it doesn't really register as problem, to me, that Tai isn't quite on the same model as she used to be.

And I suppose my argument could be summed as "it's about the tone." Dora could have deflected less aggressively, and while coulda shoulda woulda, it is a thing that one can define as concrete step forward. "I will try not to attack when I'm not feeling ready to talk."

No comment on the awkward hug.

CaptainFish:

--- Quote from: swapna on 11 Mar 2015, 03:59 ---Man, that reminds me soo much of arguments that weren't really about the content of the words (One can argue about Tai or Dora being "right" or wrong here), but about the tone. If Dora would have just told Tai to lay it off any nicer, something like 'I get that you worry, but I don't want to talk about it right now. How about we do something else?', there wouldn't be any fight to speak of.
--- End quote ---

I agree. Like I said in the last WCDT, if Dora doesn't want to talk about something she needs to say that. She can't immediately take up a defensive, closed position and then say that the person's concern for her is wrong.

I do see where ReindeerFlotilla is coming from though, because that's essentially how she rationalizes her own decisions to herself. It's hard to see that changing, even if Dora changes her mind on these specific decisions. So now we're in a position where Dora might nicely tell Tai how she doesn't want to talk about whatever emotional minefield she brings up. Even though I believe that would've worked for the conversation they had, that doesn't mean it'll work indefinitely based on what Tai wants out of their relationship.

ReindeerFlotilla:
There is a tricky balance between when one person is able to talk, and when another needs to talk. In a relationship, these events may not coincide. If both parties can't find a means to manage that, and find the balance the works for them, the relationship must fail.

Dora can't shut Tai out, but not shutting her out isn't necessarily the same as opening up. I would posit that some people can't afford to open up--at least not in the simplified way people tend to mean when they use that term. It's simply too messy inside for them to do so.

But those people can clear a space. Occasionally clear out the sitting room and let someone in that far. Maybe they will find the person who gets a peek behind the doors and isn't terrified of the mess.

I'm not saying Dora is too messy inside. It's possible from what we know of her history, but she might just be tightly wound. But the same concept applies, whether you have a mess or not. Few are closed because it's just the cool thing. To them, what is inside is unworthy, or something. They are afraid that if anyone sees it, that one will run. And not stop running.

Learning not to blow up is a step, but it's not the journey. Figuring how to balance Tai's needs against her own is. As the Joe team will tell you, that's only half the battle. Tai has learn to wait for an invitation. Like I said, delayed gratification isn't her strong suit. Tai has to learn to balance Dora's needs against her own as well.

Who knows? Enough steps, and Dora might find she has become less defensive and more open.

Tova's guess about me was incorrect. I'm not afraid of getting hurt. I'm afraid of many things. Bees, for example. But getting hurt is not something I fear. It's something I know will happen, and I'm ill prepared to deal with it. It's possible the science is incorrect. That happens. Science adjusts over time, moving ever closer to the truth. But the science seems to say that the benefit of openness is not freedom from hurt. It's an improved sense of self. That improvement comes from the ability to handle being hurt.

The science says you will be hurt. A lot. It's how you deal with it that makes being open work. I don't have the capacity to deal with it. Maybe I never will. I tried being open and it didn't work. Because I thought it was something you jump into. Grit the teeth and fake it until you don't mind the pain. Learn to trust.

I know now that it's not learning trust, but who you trust. (Trust no one, Mr. Mulder.) When you trust someone not to try to hurt you, you allow them slack when they do hurt you. And you develop a sense of security that allows you to let slide hurts from others--because you trust someone to have your back. Tai is, I think, a who Dora should trust. But given the opinions of Tai expressed here, I could not recommend my opinion as a basis to act. Either way, jumping in without first setting that trust on firm foundation makes it certain that when Tai does hurt her (and she will) Dora will recoil, rather than extending the benefit of doubt and tolerating the hurt until things become clear. Baby steps.

I'm a cynic, but I'm not a total misanthrope.

TRVA123:
I also think that trust is a choice. I mean, before you make that choice you should evaluate the person you are looking to trust. But in a relationship, you either consciously choose to trust someone, or you don't.

Dora obviously didn't choose to trust Marten, she constantly thought he was flirting/looking for greener pastures. I can't say her lack of trust was irrational, I mean, I  can understand her insecurities with Faye living in the same apartment. But once Dora realized (and I'm never sure she realized) that she couldn't choose to trust Marten, she should have broken the relationship off.

Actually, I think that is what she did. Dora seems slow on the whole introspection thing.

eschaton:

--- Quote from: Kugai on 10 Mar 2015, 22:25 ---But I think Jeph could have moved them a bit closer together.

--- End quote ---

Yeah.  That's the one main flaw I see in the comic.

In my experience with hugging friends and dating partners when I was in my 20s, the following was mostly true:  Women hug non-romantic interests "from the boobs up" (e.g., leaning in, but keeping crotches apart) and have full-body contact with their romantic interests/partners.  There were exceptions (I had one female friend who gave full body hugs, and was told by her female friends she "hugged like a lesbian") but this is mostly the case. 

I cannot see what circumstance, particularly after a fight, one would hug their partner and have no contact with their body besides the arms.  I mean, I understand it's not supposed to be a moment of high passion, but it doesn't seem like a moment of romantic intimacy either.  They should be all totally smooshed into each other.  Maybe Jeph just doesn't want creeps to fap to it though. 

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