Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 2927-2931 (30 March to 3 April 2015)
swapna:
--- Quote from: Neko_Ali on 02 Apr 2015, 03:45 ---The trouble is that Faye is regularly an asshole to everyone. This isn't the first time she's physically intimidated Claire for trying to interact with Faye the way she sees Faye interacting with other people all the time. Faye is like the poster child of 'can dish it out but can't take it' at times like this. The beer can incident can be set aside somewhat as Claire was clearly being unwarrantedly bitchy with her comment and it was taken mostly jokingly by everyone except Claire. In this case though she was clearly being aggressive and even threatening with the "I only put up with you, we are NOT friends and you do NOT have the right to do to me what I do to you and everyone else."
--- End quote ---
Yeah, Faye's not nice. But actually, she's been pretty patient and trying to be nice to people since she's been sober - she took Hanner's suggestion that she should suck it up, she thanked Marten, she apologised to Claire and Pintsize and she was civil with Dora. Doesn't mean she's a saint, now, but I think she tries to do what's right. Claire doesn't - she pestered the clearly annoyed Faye and didn't stop (that's pretty much what she does - remember how she treats Clinton?)
And, while I think the 'asserting dominance over the smaller, weaker female'-Comment took it way too far, it's fair to tell somebody that they're not your friend and they went overboard. Especially when they aren't - their first interaction mostly Claire telling Faye that she's stupid, and Faye having none of that. They may become friends, but at the moment...
SeaWoodStage:
--- Quote from: swapna on 02 Apr 2015, 04:27 ---(...remember how she treats Clinton?)
--- End quote ---
That's always bothered me a little bit too. Sure, Clinton has been super inappropriate at times, bordering on creepy, but I think sometimes we're too quick to judge Clinton on behaviour that we might forgive other characters for. Clinton's inappropriateness has always seemed immediate to me, borne out of a general cluelessness, rather than any kind of prolonged, malicious creepiness. And Claire is still in my top three favourite characters, but I sometimes feel that her treatment of Clinton is a little dismissive and harsh, especially when he's not there to defend himself.
Apologies, swapna, if I’m taking your mention of Clinton too much out of context. It’s just something that rankles with me, and you reminded me of it.
War Sparrow:
--- Quote from: SeaWoodStage on 02 Apr 2015, 04:18 ---See, this is my problem with Faye. She’s never been my favourite character, and she’s never been a character I particularly like, but she’s always been a character I really want to like. I’d started to like her more, partly because what she’s been through recently evokes my sympathy (and I tend to like people whom I sympathise with), and partly because of the way she seems to have been handling it so far. Then she goes and does something like this.
I know, I shouldn’t be so invested in a fictional character in a webcomic, but I can’t help but feel disappointed when she reverts back to the behaviour that makes it so hard for me to like her in the first place (aggressive, overly sassy, bordering on bullying).
My hope is that maybe her aggressive stance towards Claire right now is her (Faye) sort of testing her own waters, in the sense of using a behaviour she’s very used to using, in a time of very high stress? Faye’s acceptance of the reality of her situation in the immediate aftermath of being hospitalised, along with her open and polite response to the support group, seemed slightly out of character to me, in the “too good to be true” sense. It must have taken either a genuine epiphany, or a lot of effort, for her to react in those ways, and I wonder if she’s feeling almost like she’s not herself anymore. Trying to lay the smack-down on Claire might be a way of sort of feeling inside herself to see if there’s something of the old Faye that she can grasp on to. Whether that’s to comfort herself with old behaviours, or to help convince herself that pre-hospitalisation Faye hasn’t disappeared, I have no idea. I just hope that she’s not going revert back entirely to the prickly, snarky, frankly sometimes unpleasant person that she often used to be.
Ugh, I’m really not expressing myself very well in this post, but does anyone know what I’m getting at here?
--- End quote ---
If I have you right, your saying that Faye, after undergoing a huge shock to her mental and physical being, went a bit out of character, and not in a bad way. But now after she has taken care of those initial steps, she's finally able to realize that she doesn't quite feel herself yet. And she's scared. And scared people often look for stability. Faye has abandonment issues, so her stability is herself-specifically, her aggressiveness. So she is lashing out. And if that it a correct assessment, then I agree. If I have you all wrong, then let me know.
To add my own thoughts to that, she probably feels weak and frightened(I may be projecting though.) It takes a great deal to accept you need help, and the aftermath can make you feel vulnerable. Part of her lashing out may just be her way of reassuring herself that she is still "master of her domain", as it were. Or at least, still able to intimidate others, so they won't think her fragile or easy to walk all over. A person should be able to feel comfortable in their own home, after all, and not be subjected to irritations by others who don't live there. I mean, I don't get why Claire's ribbing was all that bad-maybe annoying, but just barely. But then, I am not a recovering addict trying to reestablish my place in life. Just being unemployed puts me on edge, nevermind my brain chemicals trying to reset. But then, how was Claire supposed to know? She doesn't know Faye well enough to realize how high strung her nerves are just now. And she isn't nearly so socially competent as to extrapolate it. Didn't she ask Faye if she was stupid at one point? I vaguely remember something like that, but I have bad archive fu.
I don't really agree with how Faye reacted, but I do understand it, sort of.
Two steps forward, one step back.
MrNumbers:
--- Quote from: SeaWoodStage on 02 Apr 2015, 04:58 ---
--- Quote from: swapna on 02 Apr 2015, 04:27 ---(...remember how she treats Clinton?)
--- End quote ---
Claire is still in my top three favourite characters, but I sometimes feel that her treatment of Clinton is a little dismissive and harsh, especially when he's not there to defend himself.
--- End quote ---
It's a sibling thing.
Not all siblings, mind. But enough of them.
Gravity Falls does it exceedingly well with Mabel and Dipper. They always get really mad at each other at a drop of a hat, they're brutally nasty to each other just as quick, but then they forgive each other faster still.
I like to imagine Claire and Clinton as Mabel and Dipper but All Growed Up.
Typo intentional Rugrats reference.
SeaWoodStage:
--- Quote from: War Sparrow on 02 Apr 2015, 05:00 ---
--- Quote from: SeaWoodStage on 02 Apr 2015, 04:18 ---[First two paragraphs cut for space]
My hope is that maybe her aggressive stance towards Claire right now is her (Faye) sort of testing her own waters, in the sense of using a behaviour she’s very used to using, in a time of very high stress? Faye’s acceptance of the reality of her situation in the immediate aftermath of being hospitalised, along with her open and polite response to the support group, seemed slightly out of character to me, in the “too good to be true” sense. It must have taken either a genuine epiphany, or a lot of effort, for her to react in those ways, and I wonder if she’s feeling almost like she’s not herself anymore. Trying to lay the smack-down on Claire might be a way of sort of feeling inside herself to see if there’s something of the old Faye that she can grasp on to. Whether that’s to comfort herself with old behaviours, or to help convince herself that pre-hospitalisation Faye hasn’t disappeared, I have no idea. I just hope that she’s not going revert back entirely to the prickly, snarky, frankly sometimes unpleasant person that she often used to be.
Ugh, I’m really not expressing myself very well in this post, but does anyone know what I’m getting at here?
--- End quote ---
If I have you right, your saying that Faye, after undergoing a huge shock to her mental and physical being, went a bit out of character, and not in a bad way. But now after she has taken care of those initial steps, she's finally able to realize that she doesn't quite feel herself yet. And she's scared. And scared people often look for stability. Faye has abandonment issues, so her stability is herself-specifically, her aggressiveness. So she is lashing out. And if that it a correct assessment, then I agree. If I have you all wrong, then let me know.
To add my own thoughts to that, she probably feels weak and frightened(I may be projecting though.) It takes a great deal to accept you need help, and the aftermath can make you feel vulnerable. Part of her lashing out may just be her way of reassuring herself that she is still "master of her domain", as it were. Or at least, still able to intimidate others, so they won't think her fragile or easy to walk all over. A person should be able to feel comfortable in their own home, after all, and not be subjected to irritations by others who don't live there. I mean, I don't get why Claire's ribbing was all that bad-maybe annoying, but just barely. But then, I am not a recovering addict trying to reestablish my place in life. Just being unemployed puts me on edge, nevermind my brain chemicals trying to reset. But then, how was Claire supposed to know? She doesn't know Faye well enough to realize how high strung her nerves are just now. And she isn't nearly so socially competent as to extrapolate it. Didn't she ask Faye if she was stupid at one point? I vaguely remember something like that, but I have bad archive fu.
I don't really agree with how Faye reacted, but I do understand it, sort of.
Two steps forward, one step back.
--- End quote ---
Far from having me all wrong, you’ve said pretty much what I was trying to say, but far more articulately than I was able to :) Your putting it as “master of her domain” is hitting the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned.
Going further, and as you say, making sure she’s still able to intimidate, and therefore not appear as fragile, is an aspect I hadn’t really thought of. I’d been thinking of it purely as Faye struggling with herself, but you’re right, the way other people see her is also probably massively important to her right now. So thanks, you’ve given me yet another dimension to this!
I’m not a recovering addict either, although I’ve come very close, but I’m with you on the unemployment. It can make me very defensive and insecure, and I dread meeting new people because of the inevitable “what do you do?” questions.
(I put an edit on my original post, I think after you replied to it, about Claire not deserving quite such an extreme reaction. So as far as that goes, I completely agree.)
I’m also with you on the archives: I have a bad sense of time and my archive-fu is rubbish! I think you might be right about that though, I seem to remember Claire once asking Faye “I don’t know, are you a bit stupid?” or something similar.
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