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Claire

Dora

Tai

Faye

Hannelore

Veronica

Emily

Momo

Marigold

Cosette

[themacnut]

Intellectually, I understand exactly what's happened. I understand how easy it is for this to happen. I understand that this does not mean Faye is a bad person or doesn't genuinely want to sober up.

Emotionally, though, I'm done. Considering this is canon-wise about the same time Hanners gave her that note, considering she just got fired for this, considering all the shit she has just put Marten through, considering this came after she found a therapy group she was comfortable with...

I don't sympathize. Or empathize. It's not that I don't care about Faye; I just care more about the characters she's hurting at this point.

Quitting an addiction is hard. Most addicts don't succeed the first time, or even the second. All too often even after the third. Alcoholics have been known to fall off the proverbial wagon after literal years of sobriety.

All that was my long-winded way of saying this strip did not really surprise me - addiction is a lifelong condition, whether the addict is actively indulging their addiction or not. Mark my words, this will happen again, at some point down the line.

Yes it can be devastating for the addict's loved ones when they fall off the wagon again, especially after the hell they were put through the last time. But the loved ones basically have two choices: walk away, and try to ban the addict from their thoughts and concerns, or do what they can to help the addict back on the wagon.

[amykathleen]

Noooo, Faaayyeeee.  Faye no!  Now I'm all sad-like. 

[KOK]

What I find the most disturbing is that Faye starts drinking again not because of a crisis or uncomfortable situation. She starts because she´s actually feeling good, because she has accomplished something positive, something she could be proud of. Something good she has done while she was sober. I´m not the addictive type, so it is hard for me to find a connection here, to empathize with her. I´m very careful with alcohol myself because of my daughter (and my uncle...).

There is no need for a real connection. Any excuse will do.

[Neko_Ali]

It is the celebration backside that can be so insidious. That feeling of "Hey, I am/everyone else is having a good time. One drink can't hurt, right?" And the next thing you know it's three days late and you're waking up pantsless in a field two states away... Mostly though I think Faye has just been looking for an excuse to rationalize drinking again. Especially if she just grabbed a bottle and is drinking straight from it when nobody is around.

[Dark Matter]

I keep trying to come up with something clever or insightful to say, but honestly I think "Goddamnit Faye" just about sums it up.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

My reaction was, "That's probably right on time."

[TRVA123]

What I find the most disturbing is that Faye starts drinking again not because of a crisis or uncomfortable situation. She starts because she´s actually feeling good, because she has accomplished something positive, something she could be proud of. Something good she has done while she was sober. I´m not the addictive type, so it is hard for me to find a connection here, to empathize with her. I´m very careful with alcohol myself because of my daughter (and my uncle...).

You also need to factor in impulse control. I happen to have bad impulse control for somethings. Not everything, I mean, I don't go around punching people in the face. But there are times when I really want something. Even when I know that it might not be the most healthy decision. And then, any excuse will do.

[Method of Madness]

I don't suppose I knew what alcoholism really was until I saw this episode, and it kind of blew my mind.

Also I didn't realize Paris Geller was in an episode of The West Wing! (To be fair, I didn't watch GG until years after I saw tWW)

[mustang6172]

Anyone else think putting a robot in the freezer repeatedly would be really bad for the electric bill?

[Zebediah]

Who is this vertebrate who looks so much like Marten?

[TRVA123]

My current headcannon is that pintsize is constantly trying to stop Faye from drinking, but because of his size and lack of authority he is unable to make an impact. Instead she just immobilizes him or traps him somewhere.

Time for Pintsize to get a new chassis. I vote Duffman!

[jwhouk]

Kinda called it.

I'm not Marten, but I'd grab the bottle and throw it towards that indention in the wall where she usually throws Pintsize.

[Omega Entity]

Who is this vertebrate who looks so much like Marten?

I dunno. Maybe the anomaly that produced him is the same anomaly that produced T-rex-armed Marigold.

[Is it cold in here?]

Please let this not turn into a physical confrontation, which Marten will lose.

[quats]

The problem is, this takes away her responsibility. Marten is now both "The Bad Guy" -- because OF COURSE she was doing FINE until he showed up and screwed everything up (from her perspective) -- and the guy she gets to blame for not keeping her straight.

I've seen many families of alcoholics go through this: monitor the alky's behavior, check the house for booze, pour it down the drain when found, then kick themselves when the addict finds a way to get past all their precautions and turns up drunk. And almost inevitably, the drunk will blame the caretaker, too.

I will admit though that I cheered at "You don't get to enjoy it"!

[wlewisiii]

Who is this vertebrate who looks so much like Marten?

He is a hero born in a pancake breakfast.

[Method of Madness]

Please let this not turn into a physical confrontation, which Marten will lose.

Marten wouldn't win or lose, he wouldn't even try.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

I dunno about Marten being the bad guy. Faye's bargaining right now, but she's already admitted fault, and she didn't jump directly to blame.

If she's going to make that play, Jeph's established that she knows she's wrong to do it. It would just be typical alcoholic behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if she did try to burn that bridge. It's been my experience that addicts commence digging when they hit rock bottom.

[Is it cold in here?]

I hadn't thought of the possibility of her torpedoing her friendship with Marten. It would be an alcoholic kind of thing to do, though.

There's a major source of conflict coming up the next time the rent is due.

I really hope the imaginary people come through this OK.

[themacnut]

Kinda called it.

I'm not Marten, but I'd grab the bottle and throw it towards that indention in the wall where she usually throws Pintsize.

Marten's already used up enough testosterone just demanding the bottle from Faye. If he actually physically takes it from her, his heart may collapse from the strain. Either that or Faye will punch him repeatedly in the balls until he passes out from the pain, since no one comes between the Pugnacious Peach and her cheap liquor.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

Jeph's statements about his issues hover in that fuzzy area between problem drinkers and addict. How those issues play out with friends and family tend to be pretty much the same. I figure, if he's drawing from his own experience, there's a good chance that Faye is going to at least try to fire the bridges.

It depends on how far down the rabbit hole he wants to go, I guess. Sometimes a drunk person implodes into self-pity when confronted like this, and I've never seen a reliable indicator of when that's going to happen. I'm sure the imaginary people will be okay in the long run.

What's QC with no Faye?

[Kugai]

Give him the goddam bottle Faye!!!

[Y]

I'm wondering if that's about the equivalent of 5 pints of beer if that's 40 degrees. And it seems she only bought one bottle now (unless we didn't see the extra spares). Perhaps her picture will be distributed to liquor stores and bars nearby, but that might only lead to her driving to Amherst and get drunk there. Unless there would be a rehab arc like in '28 days', although not sure how that works out here.

[BenRG]

Well done Marten! He has the courage to act on the love he feels for Faye, even though she currently feels little or none for herself. A lot now depends now in whether her friendships are more important to her than alcohol. Either way, I can see her storming out and spending the night on a park bench with a bottle.

Faye's childish reaction is very in-character. She has this issue of emotional immaturity sometimes that makes her very frustrating.

[pwhodges]

I hadn't thought of the possibility of her torpedoing her friendship with Marten.

He got that way with her after the breakup; she coped and forgave him.  I would expect no less from him in return in this situation.

[Undrneath]

Didn't Jeph make a poster to settle this question?

yes, he did. Dora is Autumn.

http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-MUCHA-PRINT&Category_Code=QC

...maybe it needs updating, with Claire being so prominent now?

First I want to say I envy Dale because of this poster.

I eny Tai even more. But then Dora hs always been my favourite character.

I have always been drawn to the zaftig body. What can I say I like curves.

[jheartney]

I dunno about Marten being the bad guy. Faye's bargaining right now, but she's already admitted fault, and she didn't jump directly to blame.

If she's going to make that play, Jeph's established that she knows she's wrong to do it. It would just be typical alcoholic behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if she did try to burn that bridge. It's been my experience that addicts commence digging when they hit rock bottom.

If it's going to be realistic (and remember, this is comedy, not tragedy), Marten's going to have a tough decision to make when Faye can't make rent. If she's screwing up, he'll need to kick her out, or else become an enabler. He should take the bottle, but he should also tell her that any continued drinking means her leeway on rent is zero.

[Energia]

He should take the bottle, but he should also tell her that any continued drinking means her leeway on rent is zero.

I like this - any other suggestions on what Marten's best response should be?  All I hear IRL is that it is up to the addict to change, and that as family/friend you can't get them to do so.  So what makes helping, enabling?  When does stopping enabling become heartless abandonment?

[Toe]

There's a major source of conflict coming up the next time the rent is due.

Of course, even without the alcoholism, there's also the whole 'unemployment' part that hasn't been dealt with yet...

[ReindeerFlotilla]

He should take the bottle, but he should also tell her that any continued drinking means her leeway on rent is zero.

That's a bold statement.

Probably the smartest thing you could do, but there'd be hell to pay in the end.

[Akima]

Stern Marten is stern. And lots of good comments above.

[Is it cold in here?]

Stern Marten is being logical now. That doesn't actually work, does it?

[chaospersonified]

Stern Marten is being logical now. That doesn't actually work, does it?

It's better than being illogical.

He's not exactly being sensitive with the nitpicking apart her argument, but it's better than jumping to "GTFO YA DRUNK."

I'm a little concerned with the way he's needling. I get it, it's for the joke's sake, but if I were Faye, I'd be angry. She knows she fucked up, she knows it was a multi-step process, telling her that doesn't help things. I'm pretty sure this is leading to Marten asking Faye about the job search. Hopefully, she'll have an answer, or he'll have suggestions. Or both. Both would be good.

[MrNumbers]

Well, she hasn't threatened violence.

Hooray?

[Method of Madness]

Why would she? She knows she's wrong, she's only angry at herself.

[chaospersonified]

Well, she hasn't threatened violence.

Hooray?

I might be doing the thing where I read too much of myself into Faye, but from where I'm sitting, she isn't showing signs of violence because she knows Marten's right. That much is 'yay.'

Something about it concerns me, though, and this is where I'm forcing myself in there. She just seems so un-Faye, seems depressed, like she's in a mode thinking she's a fuck-up and that's the end of the story. That's my concern, and it's not based on anything but her demeanor and expressions, nothing canonical.

[MrNumbers]

Why would she? She knows she's wrong, she's only angry at herself.

Exactly. The alternative would have been her thinking Marten was in the wrong. Starting a fight over it.

She did not. The worst-case scenario did not play out. It's not that I thought it was the likely scenario, just that it was a possible one. Especially with Marten showing some backbone, she might have wanted to push back. She did not.

[ASB84]

I'm a little concerned with the way he's needling. I get it, it's for the joke's sake, but if I were Faye, I'd be angry. She knows she fucked up, she knows it was a multi-step process, telling her that doesn't help things.

Even though it works as punchline for those of us behind the fourth wall, it also doubles as a means of showing tough love by not accepting excuses or rationale for her slip up. If anything, the needling/gentle ribbing from a close friend is probably softening the blow of a rather stern underlying point: that being, "Yes, this is difficult and mistakes happen, but you had plenty of opportunity to turn back, but you continued to rationalise what you were doing."

At least, that's how I read it, a less confrontational way of saying "Come on now, don't give me that BS", rather than being pedantic for the sake of it.

[Method of Madness]

Agreed.

[Neko_Ali]

Something about it concerns me, though, and this is where I'm forcing myself in there. She just seems so un-Faye, seems depressed, like she's in a mode thinking she's a fuck-up and that's the end of the story. That's my concern, and it's not based on anything but her demeanor and expressions, nothing canonical.

She's been feeling that way about herself since the break up with Angus. Before that really. She has said it in as many words.  And part of that is societal pressure. That you are supposed to always be there for your partner. That putting your needs ahead of your partner's is somehow wrong. But she feels she has failed, and hard. And worse that she is a failure and a fuck up and doesn't see or doesn't want to find a way out of that. So yes, she's been wallowing in self pity as much as cheap bourbon. And until she starts to work on that, she's probably not going to make progress on her other issues.

[Is it cold in here?]

Sometimes I've been tempted to make a fake pill bottle label identifying the contents as "Self Pity" with a warning that it's habit forming.

[themacnut]

I like this - any other suggestions on what Marten's best response should be?  All I hear IRL is that it is up to the addict to change, and that as family/friend you can't get them to do so.  So what makes helping, enabling?  When does stopping enabling become heartless abandonment?

When your helping is making it easier for the addict to carry on their addiction, it is enabling. And sometimes, stopping that means cutting off all support and letting the addict face the consequences of their addiction, which could be severe. That can seem like heartless abandonment, but it's really more like not letting them drag you down with them. An addict who refuses to quit all too often turns out to be bad to be around for friends and family, and can even be downright dangerous.

For example, and taking it back to the comic, let's suppose Faye continued getting drunk after this incident. If Marten continues covering her half of the rent with only minor protest, all he'd be doing is providing Faye a comfortable spot to keep getting drunk, and she'd have no motivation to change. Kicking her out of the apartment then would look heartless to some, but it might be his only alternative to living with an alcoholic taking advantage of his kindness and contributing nothing to their household but a growing collection of empty bottles. Worse than that, suppose she got actively destructive, like destroying Pintsize in a drunken rage, or attacking and seriously injuring Marten, or starting a fire and burning them all out of house and home.

[jheartney]

Initially, Faye did the right thing - she went to Hanners to help her get through a day of not drinking. Then she went through a day of helping Hanners with something, which also worked - Faye was A Good Friend to Hanners when Hanners needed it. Faye needs to be around people, so she's not stuck looking herself in the mirror and not liking what she sees.

For someone who asked, helping becomes enabling when the alcoholic can find a way to use the help in order to continue drinking. Letting Faye's half of the rent slide could be good if Faye were using the respite to work on her issues and find a way to not self-medicate with drink. But if she is drinking, then any support, like keeping a roof over her head while she drinks, is actively aiding the progression of the disease.

Being tough like this is not easy for Marten. Turning Faye out in the street (if it comes to that) would be incredibly awful. But letting her stay rent-free wouldn't be helping her; it'd be enabling alcoholism as it destroys her (and damages Marten too).

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye would benefit from a companion like Momo.

[Omega Entity]

Especially like Momo, since Faye would have to risk electrocution if she ever tried to shut her down.

[themacnut]

Yep, any AI companion assigned to Faye would definitely need self-defense capabilities for when (not if) Faye threatened to get rough.

[Oenone]

Yep, any AI companion assigned to Faye would definitely need self-defense capabilities for when (not if) Faye threatened to get rough.

And that's one of the things I hope this arc explores-- it shouldn't be a given that Faye will threaten another sentient being with violence.

[Timemaster]

An AI compagnon for Faye would be interesting. And it could be a good thing, but self-defense capability would be less important if the AI had a anthopomorphic chassis that can´t be tossed around or stuffed in the freezer. Far more important would be the ability to stand up to Faye. She needs straight talking and no pussyfooting around her issues.

As  I write this, suddenly the picture of May appears before my inner eye. She certainly would be up to Faye. Either they would find a connection or they would despise each other utterly. Dunno if it would do anything good for Faye. But as May said a long time ago in her holographic form: "This is gonna be comedy gold!"

TM

[Ravenswing]

"DOOK DOOK" in P1 tonight?  Holy crap, is Faye going to start hallucinating multi-colored Hell Ferrets holding squeeze bottles of lube?

 

(Okay, you've got to be a Something*Positive reader to get it ...)

[BenRG]

There isn't much to say about today's strip that hasn't already been said by others, so I'll keep this short.

The only additional point to make is about the direction of Faye's gaze. Whenever she's really ashamed or into a self-loathing state, she gets like this - unable to meet people's eyes. That's why she only put up token resistance; she knew that she was in the wrong and wanted someone to save her from herself, even if only on a subconscious level.

I'll also add that this may be the moment when Marten finally admits to himself just how bad Faye's problem actually is. I think that he's been in a bit of denial until now.

I agree that we seem to be on an arc leading to Faye getting an AI companion. I'm hoping that it's May, if only to hear her describe herself as Faye's "Jimminy fuckin' Cricket"!