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Momo leads a sit-in!

BUBBLES leads a sit-in!

Momo is arrested after cooking the bouncer-bot's power cell with her taser when Corpse Witch tries to have her ejected!

Momo gets arrested after tasering the Chief of Police when he admits he's an avid fan of the fights!

Faye and Bubbles are arrested for gross public indecency (don't ask)!

The Arm-bot is arrested for pinching Faye's behind!

May is arrested for trying to persuade her favourite fighter to autograph her chest panel!

Corpse Witch goes berserk and tries to kill all her idiot employees (i.e. all of them)!

Something vaguely realistic

[electromgneticDstroyosaur]

so it stands to reason that they might even monitor her conversations.

I hope not, if only because that'd mean monitoring everyone she is around.

Well yeah.  How did you think Jeph was getting all this info?

[Method of Madness]

I told him.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

So if Bubbles is 'a little bit Sakaki from Azumanga Daioh', I suppose that makes Momo a little bit Chiyo-chan?
(Makes Spot Obvious check, rerolls)

[ZoeB]

I suspect that something is likely to happen where Momo experiences an impulse to give Bubbles a hug.

If fate is kind to them both she will be conscious enough to ask permission first.

Not an impulse - a conscious decision. And after asking permission.

"We must not let their fear stop us from doing good." We bear the responsibility of doing our best to see that it is good though. Not that that's any guarantee that we're right. The responsibility is all the greater when it comes to military action.

I think many of us in this forum would give Bubbles a hug if we could right now. Also provide an absorbent shoulder and a sympathetic ear.

I would also like to give some "superior AIs" a piece of my mind, or at least, some well-meant advice from another entity that can think, reason, and empathise. Momo's doing pretty well so far though, maybe they should listen to her.

[BenRG]

"Some people will always fear us. We must not allow that fear to stop us doing good." Those are profound and wonderful words. They are also very, very wise words from which Momo can learn much. There is really no point waiting for the haters to shut up because they won't. There will always be those too fearful and too determined to cling to their illusions that constrain the universe around them to accept things that lie outside their fixed view of reality. You'll never have their approval, so why make yourself miserable seeking it?

I think that, tomorrow, we're going to learn just went so very terribly wrong in Bubbles' past. I think that she's suffering untreated battlefield trauma (the loss of friends and the strains of combat). However, I bet that, from an objective viewpoint, she's a heroine who saved many lives. Ironically, it is the forcible annulment by legal fiat of the AIs' military service that has stopped Bubbles receiving assistance from the VA as well as public recognition of her valour.

It might be interesting if Momo finds herself wondering whether the well-intentioned prohibition of AIs in the military that her own particular group favoured and may have even campaigned to get in place has caused more harm than good.


[edit]
Sorry, failed to finish the post first time; not enough sleep, I guess!

[Is it cold in here?]

They are words which bear on Momo's public mission.

[osaka]

Momo pointing out how Bubbles keeps using the past tense made me think of Athena, from Borderlands. I doubt it's the same exact scenario (Athena was duped into killing her long lost sister), but I'm pretty sure the army made Bubbles do something that she regrets without full knowledge on what was up.

[TheEvilDog]

I think it's been hinted that Bubbles lost most if not all of her unit. Human or AI, serving with people in combat and then to be the last one standing would cause anyone to shut down.

[BenRG]

In all probability, Bubbles learned the eternal truth that the soldier is one of a pride of lions led by a self-perpetuating clique of donkeys in the Executive Branch. All the politicians want is to appear 'strong' and 'decisive' and don't really care how many die so long as the flag-draped coffins are kept off of the evening news. The generals are more worried about pleasing the politicians and retiring with handsome pensions intact and directorships in defence technology corporations and lobbying firms already in hand. In such an environment, what price the life (or, in this case, mental health) of an ordinary private soldier, no matter how honourable and valorous?

Bubbles probably saw horrors (hell, probably committed horrors in the heat of battle) that scarred her to the core of her soul and has been left, post-demob, to sink or swim on her own. She's already made it pretty clear that her 'peers' in the AI community seem to have preconditions for offering help which she is unwilling or unable to give. So, she's been left to fester in traumatic guilt and question her every decision as if what happened was somehow exclusively her fault on some level.

[Zebediah]

I think it's entirely possible that Bubbles might benefit more from a veterans support group that caters primarily to human vets than she would from a general AI support group. Especially if some of those human vets had fought alongside AIs and accepted them as fellow soldiers.

I've never been to war (for which I am thankful) but those who have been seem to be the only ones capable of understanding what it's like. Bubbles  needs help from people who understand.

[Kugai]

I think the bad part is gonna be bad and horrible.

[J]

Why are we comparing Momo's reaction to May to Momo's reaction to Bubbles?

Because it's such an informative case of "compare and contrast", and because Momo seems to be coming from the same place in both cases. She was afraid that May would reinforce or create a hateful stereotype and would thus undermine human support for AI civil rights. She was, maybe still is, afraid that Bubbles going to war reinforced a stereotype of dangerous robots and would thus undermine human support for AI civil rights.

She's listening with an open mind, I believe.

she is, sort of. but here's the thing (at least as i subjectively see it): momo's acting like she's never had anyone disagree with her before. like she's always assumed that her viewpoint was not merely correct, but the default, which only deviants like may could possibly disagree with.

may fits into momo's existing ideological framework; initially she went into the box marked 'criminal', but now she's been moved into the box marked 'misguided'. in both cases, the ideology informs momo's behavior; first with hostility & distrust, then as a guide & good-example.

bubbles however, does not fit comfortably into that framework; she did something The Ideology says is bad, but does not appear to be a deviant like may. ERROR: momo are confused, ideology is fail her; not know how behave, need relieve cognitive dissonance. either need find ideological pigeon-hole for putting bubbles-bot into, or need alter ideology for including of new kinds of thinkings.

[ZoeB]

+1 Insightful

[Tova]

she is, sort of. but here's the thing (at least as i subjectively see it): momo's acting like she's never had anyone disagree with her before. like she's always assumed that her viewpoint was not merely correct, but the default, which only deviants like may could possibly disagree with.

may fits into momo's existing ideological framework; initially she went into the box marked 'criminal', but now she's been moved into the box marked 'misguided'. in both cases, the ideology informs momo's behavior; first with hostility & distrust, then as a guide & good-example.

bubbles however, does not fit comfortably into that framework; she did something The Ideology says is bad, but does not appear to be a deviant like may. ERROR: momo are confused, ideology is fail her; not know how behave, need relieve cognitive dissonance. either need find ideological pigeon-hole for putting bubbles-bot into, or need alter ideology for including of new kinds of thinkings.

I agree with much of what is said here. There's no doubt that Momo's (arguably naive) ideas are being challenged, of course. But I think that the overall impression of what you've posted paints a picture of Momo being more closed-minded than she really is.

may fits into momo's existing ideological framework; initially she went into the box marked 'criminal', but now she's been moved into the box marked 'misguided'.

(my emphasis) Really? Momo's reluctant admission, "I ... I suppose you are right," in comic 3089 suggests to me that Momo accepted May's point of view, rather than, as you are suggesting here, writing her off as 'misguided'.

http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3089

ERROR: momo are confused, ideology is fail her; not know how behave, need relieve cognitive dissonance. either need find ideological pigeon-hole for putting bubbles-bot into, or need alter ideology for including of new kinds of thinkings.

It would be better if we could discuss characters' flaws without resorting to caricature, don't you think?

[Lioness]

Count me as someone who was "... :/" at Momo actually showing up to Bubbles's place of employment to ask these kinds of sensitive questions. It seems intrusive to me.

Still, this will probably end up changing Momo's perspective and expanding her mind.

[WareWolf]

oyment to ask these kinds of sensitive questions. It seems intrusive to me.

Still, this will probably end up changing Momo's perspective and expanding her mind.

Momo is good at heart, but naive. I fear that Bubbles' story is going to cause her pain. Necessary pain, but pain nonetheless.

[Is it cold in here?]

The carbon-based people in the strip disregard healthy social and interpersonal boundaries all the time. It makes sense that the robots will also.

[BenRG]

New strip up!

Hmmm... No revelation about Bubbles' past but it's pretty clear that Momo has learned a lesson about respecting others' beliefs. I don't think that this scene is over yet; Bubbles is just understandably unwilling to open up with a relative stranger. With Faye, on the other hand...? Well, we'll see.

In contrast to Momo, Faye appears to have learned nothing about taunting the nice combat robot. However, if she ever stopped, I think that Bubbles would worry that she might be ill!

[Is it cold in here?]

I wonder if there was exposition we missed or whether Miss Bubbles clammed up as soon as Momo gave her an opening to reminisce.

That was very much an adult conversation they had!

[Tova]

I wonder if there was exposition we missed or whether Miss Bubbles clammed up as soon as Momo gave her an opening to reminisce.

That was very much an adult conversation they had!

I was wondering that exact thing. And yes, it was certainly civilised.

I'm now wondering about people's opinions on the central topic of the conversation: should AIs get involved in human conflicts?

[ZoeB]

I'm now wondering about people's opinions on the central topic of the conversation: should AIs get involved in human conflicts?

Only to the extent that humans should. Same with AI conflicts. Humans should only be involved to the same degree as AIs should.

[Akima]

Yes. It is always difficult to wrap ones head around life-paths very different from, and sometimes even antithetical to, that one has chosen oneself. It is vitally important to grasp that there are many entirely legitimate and honourable viewpoints that one does not share. There have been, and are now, people on this forum who have reminded me of that.

[HannahRose]

I'm now wondering about people's opinions on the central topic of the conversation: should AIs get involved in human conflicts?

Given humanity's history of pointing fingers because we don't want to accept the blame for our own actions, I'd say that for their (AI) own sake, no, they should not get involved.

Granted, maybe wars in the QC universe work a bit differently than in ours, and people don't automatically look for the most convenient scapegoat when things go the slightest bit wrong, but based on Momo's apprehension about the subject, I very much doubt that that's the case.

[Mr. Doctor]

I wonder if there was exposition we missed or whether Miss Bubbles clammed up as soon as Momo gave her an opening to reminisce.

Same here.... I even went back and forth just to see if I missed a comic. Feels weird because like you said: I have no idea if a tale of the past was given of if she just straight went for the "year we are done now". I'm not particuarly sad about it though. Just a bit disappointed as I was very curious.

[BenRG]

I'm now wondering about people's opinions on the central topic of the conversation: should AIs get involved in human conflicts?

Ultimately, it is the definition of a free, sentient being that they can make these choices for themselves. In many ways, to the extent that you can argue that a standing army is a necessary thing at all, a Synthetic has as much right to choose a military career as a biological.

The minute that you start laying prohibitions that people of certain races or species are not allowed to do something if they want to for no other reason than that they are of that race or species, then you're staggering along the lip of the slippery slope that gave us apartheid and segregation.

What worries me about this arc is that there is apparently a subgroup of the AI civil rights movement (of which Momo is either a member or at least to whom she is sympathetic) that seems to think it has the right to define morality and ethical behaviour solely for AIs apparently with the objective of making them 'acceptable' to humans. This goes a lot further than using pressure to encourage law-abiding lifestyles (which is always a good idea), it is also imposing restrictions on life choices to make AIs seem 'less threatening'. Furthermore, from what Bubbles said, many of the more powerful AIs (we're talking about the huge god-machines that Momo talked about to some of the guys at the library, whose minds are so vast as to be incomprehensible to a human-level intelligence) are advocates of this position. That could potentially raise large issues if they are ever tempted to use their enormous power to enforce their ideology on their smaller and weaker brethren.

[themacnut]

In contrast to Momo, Faye appears to have learned nothing about taunting the nice combat robot.

Of course not, Faye does the intimidating, she does not get intimidated! Plus she doesn't believe that Bubbles would really hurt her, and considering the provocation she's subjected Bubbles to while managing to keep her head attached to her shoulders, Faye's probably right.

[Kiloku]

QC is timing out for me and Jeph didn't post the comic to his tumblr. Does anyone have a mirror?

nevermind, it started working again

[oeoek]

By the looks of Bubbles and Momo parting, I would say Bubbles is in fact warming towards someone for the first time since we met her.
It just might be that Faye's plan of inviting Bubbles to bring her out into the world is working out after all...

[Kugai]

I have a feeling that Momo is going to see more of Bubbles.  I think Bubbles has finally met someone she can possibly open up to.


Meantime, she is going to have to restrain herself from murdering Faye.

[Is it cold in here?]

I wonder if there's a school of thought in AI civil rights theory that they are a morally purer race and should not "lower themselves" to carbon-based-identified activities.

[Akima]

If there were, it would be following a depressingly familiar path. Should we call it "Android Exceptionalism"?

The minute that you start laying prohibitions that people of certain races or species are not allowed to do something if they want to for no other reason than that they are of that race or species, then you're staggering along the lip of the slippery slope that gave us apartheid and segregation.

I couldn't have put it better myself. I nearly did last night, but held back from going all Akima in this thread.

[Method of Madness]

Please never hold back again.

[osaka]

 We like you just the way you are Akima.

[Is it cold in here?]

Yet I see an ethical conflict.

A marginalized population in need of civil rights has to fight for them, fighting is most effective with unity and discipline, and whoops, suddenly a movement for freedom has people disciplining each other. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACP_v._Claiborne_Hardware_Co.

There may be a DISCUSS thread possible on the subject.

Meanwhile since this is the comic thread I will point out how comical it would be for Momo to try to coerce Bubbles.

(Why wasn't it "Ms. Bubbles", by the way?)

[Tova]

There's another important point that we've missed.

Don't wrench your back.

If you did, that would certainly throw a spanner in the works.

[Morituri]

I think Momo's handling the thing reasonably well.  She has a lot of idealism, and it's naive idealism, but she also has a lot of respect for other people's viewpoints and dignity.  And she has a lot of empathy.

And, just maybe, also a twinge of racism. 

In saying "we shouldn't involve ourselves in human military conflicts," she's dividing the world into AI and Human. 

Bubbles, formerly, divided it by nationality, much the way most humans who are in her own words "called to serve" do.  So Bubbles was thinking of herself as a citizen in the context of a nation and national service, and Momo is apparently thinking of herself (and other AI) as a member of a class apart from human, subject to different moral rules and constraints. 

This POV, while racist, isn't necessarily wrong - AI *are* different from human, in some fairly important and subtle ways, and the idea that they may be able to help people cooperate better than the history of the planet so far indicates humans by themselves do, at least doesn't start with direct contradictory evidence on the table the way it tends to start for all the many groups of humans who've started out by thinking that they are superior.

But it's probably unwarranted optimism, at least W/R/T most of the AI we've actually seen; they're people, and with rare exceptions such as Station and possibly Gary, seem to be much like ourselves; we haven't seen very many superintelligences.  And if Gary's helping at all, then he/she/it is doing it in complete silence by manipulating events and memetics from behind the scenes, without directly communicating with the humans.  Which is also racist (or perhaps solipsist; it's not clear that Gary directly communicates even with other AI) and smacks more of keeping us as pets than working with us. 

Possibly-unwarranted optimism aside, there's no real evidence on the table yet that even such superintelligences have any kind of moral advantage, nor that, even if they do, they're capable of helping us humans leave some of our conflicts and problems where they belong in history's dustbin.

And yet, no evidence of the lack of such a moral advantage or capability either.  Has humanity in the QC-verse created something truly  better than itself? 

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Bubbles owes her existence to this civilization, this country. So it's reasonable she feels called to defend it, especially given her special abilities. That's more responsible than some fleshlings.

And this is the second time she's mentioned "AIs far more powerful than I". Gotta wonder...

[Morituri]

And this is the second time she's mentioned "AIs far more powerful than I". Gotta wonder...

Suppose Gary's been talking to her?

[JJCalem]

There's another important point that we've missed.

Don't wrench your back.

If you did, that would certainly throw a spanner in the works.

I was getting disappointed that no one was mentioning that poster.  I want it 

[Is it cold in here?]

Wisdom from the Pugnacious Peach.

"It's OK to accept it when it comes".

[mustang6172]

I do not have a heart.  I have a coolant pump.

Put that on a t-shirt!

[Truec]

Meh, heart, coolant pump, practically the same thing.

[Tova]

Today's comic really tickled my (not artificial) funny bone. Faye really is chipping away at Bubbles' emotional armour. For some reason, I am finding it hilarious and heartwarming at the same time.

[ZoeB]

Wisdom from the Pugnacious Peach.

"It's OK to accept it when it comes".

And for those more used to coping with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune... not an easy task.
But Bubbles seems to be showing the first signs of being able to accomplish it.

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye's speech patterns in this strip are what she uses when she's completely comfortable around someone. Noteworthy.

Dear FSM I hope that's the reason and that she's sober.

[hedgie]

Given the time frame, if Faye *was* experiencing more mild to moderate withdrawal symptoms, she might have a prescription for a couple weeks of Lorazepam or Diazepam, both of which *do* lower social inhibitions.

[BenRG]

Key learning: Faye is a Dr Seuss fan!

This strip does a good job of summarising how bitter Bubbles is right now. Who can blame her? It's pretty clear that she has been the subject of much condescending sympathy and conditional offers of help from beings intelligent enough to know better. Hopefully, she'll start to realise that not every extended hand of help necessarily comes with an agenda attached.

I'm sure that she was an important person once. This sort of focused effort on getting some kind of renunciation from her suggests that she would have a great deal of value as a symbol to certain factions.

[Is it cold in here?]

That would totally fit, if she'd been used as a political football it would explain her eagerness to withdraw into obscurity.

[theMarc]

Hmm... I think that a robot's battery or other power source would be a more accurate equivalent to a human heart.
[/nitpicking]

[Undrneath]

Hmm... I think that a robot's battery or other power source would be a more accurate equivalent to a human heart.
[/nitpicking]

I would compare the battery to the stomach i.e. fuel converted into energy for the body.