Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3251 to 3255 (27th June to 1st July 2016)
oddtail:
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 01 Jul 2016, 05:36 ---
--- Quote from: themacnut on 01 Jul 2016, 05:09 ---
--- Quote from: St.Clair on 01 Jul 2016, 01:41 ---I will also note that pointing out how ridiculously, selfishly, immaturely etc one is behaving - not by lecturing or moralizing, simply by holding up a mirror and letting them observe themselves - can be very effective, if one can withstand the blows that will likely come from the embarrassed person trying to get you to stop.
--- End quote ---
It may depend on if Faye is ready to face such an epiphany. If she isn't she may be driven to drink even faster; "Oh god the feels. THE FEELS. MUST DROWN THEM!!!" I've always thought that the reason many addicts continue chasing that high even though the chase has imploded the rest of their lives is because the high is the one remaining good feeling. The rest of their life is hell, getting high relieves the pain for awhile; for all too many addicts, that may be all they think they have left.
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I don't recall the name of the experiment or those that performed it, but the experimenter(s) had put a lone rat in a standard cave with just some bedding, bland food pellets, and two water bottles. One was plan water, the other was drugged (crack, if I'm not mistaken). The rat always chose the drugged water. Said rat was transferred to a much larger cage with other rats, a running wheel, plenty of toys, a more varied diet, and two water bottles -- one of which contained the same drug. The rat went for the normal water. The conclusion was that when the rat's needs were met, it didn't take drugs. And it's also suggested that our current model of addiction is wrong.
Mind you, this is something I read on tumblr, so take it with a grain of salt.
--- End quote ---
I've heard about this outside of Tumblr, for what it's worth. I think I saw a TED Talk video about just this.
Still not an excellent and reliable source, but better'n nothing ;)
MooskiNet:
--- Quote from: oddtail on 01 Jul 2016, 05:37 ---
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 01 Jul 2016, 05:36 ---I don't recall the name of the experiment or those that performed it, but the experimenter(s) had put a lone rat in a standard cave with just some bedding, bland food pellets, and two water bottles. One was plan water, the other was drugged (crack, if I'm not mistaken). The rat always chose the drugged water. Said rat was transferred to a much larger cage with other rats, a running wheel, plenty of toys, a more varied diet, and two water bottles -- one of which contained the same drug. The rat went for the normal water. The conclusion was that when the rat's needs were met, it didn't take drugs. And it's also suggested that our current model of addiction is wrong.
Mind you, this is something I read on tumblr, so take it with a grain of salt.
--- End quote ---
I've heard about this outside of Tumblr, for what it's worth. I think I saw a TED Talk video about just this.
Still not an excellent and reliable source, but better'n nothing ;)
--- End quote ---
I think you folks are talking about Rat Park.
The problem for humans, of course, is our tendency to overthink a plate of beans - even if all our basic needs are being met, we'll go ahead and question whether we deserve it.
alanari:
I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats. Yes, being unhappy surely contributes, it's called self-medication, but that's not all.
I mean, a huge portion of smokers started smoking because "everyone does it". There are even some who started to smoke to lose weight, since nicotine reduces appetite.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
It's an interesting result but transferring it to humans could lead to a lot of suffering.
A human addict needs to reach a point where living with the drug is scarier than living without the one thing that seems to be what keeps him running.
BenRG:
FWIW, I think that a lot of the transferrence problem is because making a human 'happy' is fantastically more complex an endeavour than with a rat. For some reason, we have an instinctive drive to find 'meaning' in our lives; this has at least as strong an impact on our mental and emotional balance as any purely physical issue.
oddtail:
--- Quote from: alanari on 01 Jul 2016, 07:05 ---I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats. Yes, being unhappy surely contributes, it's called self-medication, but that's not all.
I mean, a huge portion of smokers started smoking because "everyone does it". There are even some who started to smoke to lose weight, since nicotine reduces appetite.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
It's an interesting result but transferring it to humans could lead to a lot of suffering.
A human addict needs to reach a point where living with the drug is scarier than living without the one thing that seems to be what keeps him running.
--- End quote ---
I don't think there's a one-on-one correspondence, but I think humans do act on some pretty basic and simple instincts, much of the time. Certainly more often than we tend to think. And understanding certain simple processes in rats may shed some light on how humans behave, too. Yes, it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but as complex an animal as I am, I am still an animal. I am subject to many dynamics, both as an individual and as a part of group, as any other mammal. And a rat is a relatively smart mammal, too.
Does the experiment explain all human behaviour regarding addiction? I highly doubt that. Does it have *relevance* for humans? I believe it does.
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