Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT Strips 3251 to 3255 (27th June to 1st July 2016)
St.Clair:
--- Quote from: BenRG on 01 Jul 2016, 07:10 ---FWIW, I think that a lot of the transferrence problem is because making a human 'happy' is fantastically more complex an endeavour than with a rat. For some reason, we have an instinctive drive to find 'meaning' in our lives; this has at least as strong an impact on our mental and emotional balance as any purely physical issue.
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Also, getting what we (thought we) want(ed) does not always make us happier, at least not for long; a lot of humans, probably most of us, seem to be wired to never be really content with what we have, always desiring more. Once we get something, we move our goalposts. It's one of the more messed-up aspects of our cognition, IMO, that we can't ever just be happy with what we've got, though it's allowed us as a species to accomplish some amazing things (that we look at first with pride, then with ambivalence, and finally with scorn - it wasn't really that great/why haven't we done anything else that cool?).
There's a wiki article on this (the hedonic treadmill), if anyone's interested.
Gyrre:
--- Quote from: oddtail on 01 Jul 2016, 07:43 ---
--- Quote from: alanari on 01 Jul 2016, 07:05 ---I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats. Yes, being unhappy surely contributes, it's called self-medication, but that's not all.
I mean, a huge portion of smokers started smoking because "everyone does it". There are even some who started to smoke to lose weight, since nicotine reduces appetite.
But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
It's an interesting result but transferring it to humans could lead to a lot of suffering.
A human addict needs to reach a point where living with the drug is scarier than living without the one thing that seems to be what keeps him running.
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I don't think there's a one-on-one correspondence, but I think humans do act on some pretty basic and simple instincts, much of the time. Certainly more often than we tend to think. And understanding certain simple processes in rats may shed some light on how humans behave, too. Yes, it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but as complex an animal as I am, I am still an animal. I am subject to many dynamics, both as an individual and as a part of group, as any other mammal. And a rat is a relatively smart mammal, too.
Does the experiment explain all human behaviour regarding addiction? I highly doubt that. Does it have *relevance* for humans? I believe it does.
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Definitely agree.
There's an entire field of study devoted to animal behavior; ethology (if memory serves). Animals and humans shouldn't be given a 1:1 correlation.
I know I brought up the rat park study, but only because it is relevant.
Kugai:
Bubbles attitude here, whether intentional or simply by her lack of social understanding and interaction with Human Civilians, might be exactly the right tack for her to be taking even if she doesn't realise it.
Atherea:
--- Quote from: Penquin47 on 30 Jun 2016, 01:26 ---My mom's a doctor. She has a lot of elderly patients. Some of whom have the oxygen tank under one hand and the cigarette in the other.
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This describes my mom perfectly. She chain-smokes all day long, between breathing treatments, in the middle of the night, just constantly. She's developed COPD and has been told she needs to be on oxygen all day long, but she won't because it interferes with her smoking. She's only in her 40s and she lives like she's in her 80s, complete with a walker because she can't go more than 10 steps without getting short of breath and dizzy. Since she was 12-years-old, the longest she's gone without a cigarette (outside of during hospital stays) is 12 hours. She nearly died a couple years ago (had to be taken by LifeFlight to the hospital) and it still didn't wake her up enough to get her to quit. We brought her home and she immediately lit up.
Morituri:
--- Quote from: alanari on 01 Jul 2016, 07:05 ---I've heard about this experiment too and I don't like it. We are not rats. We are a bit more complicated than rats.
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In fact that's the whole point of science. Experimental results (at least in well-designed experiments) are reproducible whether you like them or not. You don't HAVE to like it.
That said, the experimental results are about rats, not humans. I don't know of any similar experiment being carried out to see if it works on humans, but I kinda think one ought to be. When we find something that works on a problem humans have, even for a simpler organism, it's just plain good sense to see whether some version of it works on humans.
--- Quote ---But the main reason I dislike it is the implication "he's just unhappy". Which immediately leads to the conclusion "he only needs to be happy and he'll stop". This hasn't worked for a single addict ever, but many relatives have ruined their own life and soul trying to make it work. This is an encouragement they don't need.
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Hmmm. Like I said, I don't know of any well-designed studies on humans. Anecdotally, I think I've seen similar things happening to humans with positive results too. Of addicts I've known who did quit, I can't think of a single one of them who quit while they were all alone in the world. They all had a bunch of other people they were involved with at the time.
But that's anecdotal, not a proper statistical study. Anecdotes are all we really have at this point, not solid results. Especially not solid results that would indicate a proper way HOW to apply it to humans. FWIW, while I've seen people successfully quit things (including my dad) I don't recall personally seeing a single one who quit as a result of any kind of intentional interaction by a family specifically aimed at reaching that result. What I recall is people, usually without specific intent in doing it as a way of quitting, developing interests, becoming active members of communities, undertaking charitable causes, etc, and finally finding that they could quit.
In the most extreme cases, it really does happen like Faye's shown in the comic - realizing after a week or a month or whatever that they just haven't been thinking about the addiction. Of course, this is unfortunate, because, like Faye, that thought often as not brings the "need" back to the surface. I think that kind of specific memory bringing back a psychological need is probably something rats suffer from a bit less than humans.
But if all we had on the other point was anecdotes, what I just said about rats is a mere untested theory.
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