Comic Discussion > ALICE GROVE
Alice Grove MCDLT - THE END...?
dutchrvl:
It occurs to me that some of Pate's dialogue doesn't make much sense to me. He says " Is that what all this is about? You atoning for whatever you did...", but Pate was the one that forced her to come up with him, so it's not like any of the currently ongoing circumstances/actions are part of something preplanned by Alice.
In fact, the only way Pate's questions make sense is if Alice was (at least partially) behind human consciousnesses digitally sequestered in the Praeses, and earth being reset at a more or less agricultural age. There is no way of Pate knowing this though, so he is assuming an awful lot about history and Alice's role in it, or (more likely) Jeph has here given away the info that Alice was indeed behind the current circumstances.
Another thing I was wondering: Alice and Ardent behaviors and actions and how they talk about their digital lives inside the praeses seems to indicate that the praeses can host realities and house the digital consciousnesses, but not actually alter or otherwise affect those consciousnesses.
JimC:
--- Quote from: dexeron on 11 Jul 2017, 12:25 --- That cage might be for the greater good, but it's still morally wrong to force people to stay there if they want something better.
--- End quote ---
Arguably every legal system is a cage in which people are forced to stay for the greater good.
--- Quote from: dexeron on 11 Jul 2017, 12:25 ---(Also, it appears that she just murdered a defenseless opponent, so there's that...)
--- End quote ---
Possibly executed?
dutchrvl:
--- Quote from: JimC on 11 Jul 2017, 13:25 ---
--- Quote from: dexeron on 11 Jul 2017, 12:25 --- That cage might be for the greater good, but it's still morally wrong to force people to stay there if they want something better.
--- End quote ---
Arguably every legal system is a cage in which people are forced to stay for the greater good.
--- End quote ---
^This. You can get into endless philosophical discussions about what is good and evil, but in a nutshell the concept of good and evil are simply societal constructs device by majority opinion and not absolutely defined.
In a way, pretty much everybody lives in some 'cages', albeit most consist of societal/familial morals/ethics and legal systems. Countries' borders are another example, is it morally wrong to keep people from crossing borders if they desire to do so?
Is the cage that was created in AG for the greater good morally wrong? Who is to say? Was the majority of earth inhabitants for or against this construct?
I would also like to point out that the argument "you should not force somebody to stay in the cage if they want something better" hinges on what constitutes 'better'....Is what Pate is interested in 'better'? If everybody in the world is wellfed, safe, and taken care of, one could argue that colonizing other planets does not constitute 'better'. Is colonizing planets better for whoemevr inhabits those planets?
Anyway, we could go on and on, but you get my drift.
BenRG:
--- Quote from: JimC on 11 Jul 2017, 13:25 ---
--- Quote from: dexeron on 11 Jul 2017, 12:25 ---(Also, it appears that she just murdered a defenseless opponent, so there's that...)
--- End quote ---
Possibly executed?
--- End quote ---
"For Ellie. Because Church would have used 'restrain or immobilise' if you'd told him to but you thought him murdering someone would make sure we were paying attention to you. Mr Pate? You have my attention."
A small perverse otter:
--- Quote from: BenRG on 11 Jul 2017, 14:27 ---
--- Quote from: JimC on 11 Jul 2017, 13:25 ---
--- Quote from: dexeron on 11 Jul 2017, 12:25 ---(Also, it appears that she just murdered a defenseless opponent, so there's that...)
--- End quote ---
Possibly executed?
--- End quote ---
"For Ellie. Because Church would have used 'restrain or immobilise' if you'd told him to but you thought him murdering someone would make sure we were paying attention to you. Mr Pate? You have my attention."
--- End quote ---
If Path knew (or should have known) what would happen to people like Ellie, then, yes, he's a murderer. Given that Pate knew what would happen when he let Church off his leash just a few comics ago, I guess that's probably true.
I'm not sure that I'll let Alice off the hook that easily, though -- she can't be judge, jury, and executioner in my mind.
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