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Winslow Meets The World! Who'll have the most interesting response to Winslow 2.0?

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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)  (Read 89864 times)

castn

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #150 on: 16 Aug 2017, 09:39 »

I'm sorry Milanya, but that approach would have gone badly as well, for one simple reason; even assuming he could pull it off with his limited social experience, sooner or later the conversation would have turned to how Winslow got his new chassis. Once May learned it was gifted to him, her resentment over her own barely-functional chassis that she can barely afford to maintain would flare up, and things would go downhill from there.

The only way Winslow could have avoided the resulting angry outburst would have been to quickly exit stage right before May could ask any questions. Really, his best overall move would have been to avoid May altogether for as long as possible.

I mean, the best approach would have probably been to let her know of his new chassis in a social setting where the purpose of their meeting is not to show off his chassis. But maybe the better way to look at it is this: there isn't a full proof method to avoid a rude or angry outbursts where privilege is concerned. That's how May (and a lot of people discriminated by governmental or societal standards) feel. Bitter, angry, vindictively rude. And those in a position of privilege rarely have the right to correct this unless it's directly harmful because... like, how do you begin to lecture someone on that aspect of their lives when you inherently know so little about their circumstances? Winslow doesn't know what it was like for May, he just knows she's had a much harder time than him.

It isn't about not causing a bad reaction, it's about knowing how to handle the bad reaction. Winslow does it pretty well IMO. He doesn't tell May she's an ass or that she's wrong. He just leaves, and he runs into Bubbles (she also doesn't condemn May's reaction) who is happy to help him find a productive way to deal with his hurt feelings.

This is the "ideal" scenario for someone whose privilege has been checked, because he isn't trying to invalidate May's experience or words just because she's been rude/mean.
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ChipNoir

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #151 on: 16 Aug 2017, 09:53 »

I think the conversation was very predictable, and of course it's not just May's fault for being an abrasive Ass. We've never seen Winslow and May interact one-on-one before; they can't be close friends, if they are friends at all.
Which means that the only reason Winslow would seek her out - not in private,  but on her job where she can't leave, and he obviously doesn't want to buy something - is to show off his new chassis. To an acquaintance. For the sole purpose of validation and congratulations and showing off, he doesn't ask or care how she's doing at all.

... even Momo couldn't fake being super excited and happy for him, and she's basically sugar sprinkles personified.

Yes, May is an abrasive asshole, and she could've been nicer, but I understand. I also understand how happy and excited Winslow is, but sometimes you need a jerk to tell you that you have your head up your own ass so far that you can't see the world around you. Bubbles is just the right person to help Winslow find meaningful things to do except being Hanners' companion, since her conversation isn't a "check your privilege"-thing. It's a "now that you're aware of the resources you have, wanna do something good with them?"-conversation, which is what Winslow desperately needs.

Re: May deserves the shit she's in: if you start denying people basic healthcare and stick them in a carch-22 situation where they can't avoid breaking the terms of their parole either way, strip them of their dignity (the weird AI companion thing with Dale? Sticking her in a body that might appeal to the "customer"? Making her completely dependant on his survey responses that he can use as a threat? Yes, Dale was nice. He's also not the norm), robbing them of their body (remember, she just wanted to see the stars, so she must have been in a situation where she had no sensors to perceive them) and say that's fair and her own fault... We just won't agree on that, ever, to put it mildly.

All of this. ALL OF IT!
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #152 on: 16 Aug 2017, 10:31 »

Where will the tea take Winslow?
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #153 on: 16 Aug 2017, 10:59 »

This story arc is turning real ugly. [...] Jeph's planned idea for the arc is turning toxic.

"Ugly"? "Toxic"?  So far all we've seen is a newly mobile Winslow making a bit of an ass of himself and getting chewed out over it.  Let's see how Jeph deals with it before judging the arc as whole, eh?

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #154 on: 16 Aug 2017, 13:30 »

With regard to Winslow, Jeph has been going through a phase recently of switching primary characters (Marten, Claire, Hannelore and Dora) into supporting roles and bring secondary or even background characters (Renee and Elliott) forwards and giving them their own distinct primary arcs. So using Winslow as part of his current evident intent to use QC to explore how AIs as well as their distinct needs and culture would really work in a near-contemporary North America is entirely explicable.

I'm kinda getting the feeling that Jeph is just throwing a handful of darts onto a dart board and seeing what sticks. And then trying to mold it into a storyline, but then is afraid to go any further without offending someone with a loud voice that is triggered by the wrong use of There/Their/They're or something petty or minor. Alot of these arcs are either left hanging, rerouted elsewhere (see: Faye/Bubbles being shipped together till Jeph shoved Elliot in between, and fans liking Corpsewitch, even thought she was a villain) or are "neatly" resolved in a few strips.

He kinda got lucky with Claire and the relationship with Marten, but fell flat after "You and Me." Now he's trying to recapture the lightning in the jar, but can only muster static electricity.


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Remember, we don't tolerate gendered insults here.

For a (fictitious) character that has attitude that is negative 96.3% of the time, you can't escape people labeling it in such terms.
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Neko_Ali

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #155 on: 16 Aug 2017, 13:40 »

Moderator Comment That doesn't matter. Those are still the rules here. They apply to everyone.
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Reaver

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #156 on: 16 Aug 2017, 13:59 »

Yeah, you should instead call May her favorite body part! Which is a butt
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Zeev

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #157 on: 16 Aug 2017, 14:34 »

I might be wrong here but are May and Winslow even really friends? I cant remember any significant interaction between them. They probably know each other through their mutual friends but I think May's perspective is that this guy she barely knows came into her place of work purely to tell her of his good fortune and gaining something that for her is at best a pipe dream. She probably overreacted, but I dont think her out burst is unwarrented considering the relationship (or lack there of) between these two characters.

+1 to Bubbles for being the consummate adult.
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Toe

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #158 on: 16 Aug 2017, 14:42 »

Why do I get the feeling this is heading down Sinfest Road?
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flondrix

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #159 on: 16 Aug 2017, 14:49 »

Do you picture a plug-in "social graces" module

Momo must have had one.  I think she even mentioned it early on.  She certainly would not have been able to learn such things living with Marigold.
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Reaver

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #160 on: 16 Aug 2017, 15:24 »

Do you picture a plug-in "social graces" module

Momo must have had one.  I think she even mentioned it early on.  She certainly would not have been able to learn such things living with Marigold.
Momo seems to be designed to be an actual companion and got treated as such, Winslow is a appliance with a  personality, and got treated as such, just saying nobody came to Marigold and asked to borrow Momo to watch movies on :(

Seems like their "Owners" ??? Companions? Saw them in two different ways, and that affected what sort of social graces  they had installed.

And yes there is a comic where Momo tells Angus she's got a social graces system installed.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #161 on: 16 Aug 2017, 15:33 »

I might be wrong here but are May and Winslow even really friends? I cant remember any significant interaction between them. They probably know each other through their mutual friends but I think May's perspective is that this guy she barely knows came into her place of work purely to tell her of his good fortune and gaining something that for her is at best a pipe dream. She probably overreacted, but I dont think her out burst is unwarrented considering the relationship (or lack there of) between these two characters.

+1 to Bubbles for being the consummate adult.

Welcome, thoughtful new person!

Yep. Bubbles is looking like one of the most mature of the characters after having been through the fire emotionally.
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pwhodges

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #162 on: 16 Aug 2017, 15:39 »

see: Faye/Bubbles being shipped together

The forum learnt (or was reminded) that too-eager shipping before a relationship becomes canon has pitfalls!

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For a (fictitious) character that has attitude that is negative 96.3% of the time, you can't escape people labeling it in such terms.

In the forum we can and we do.  If it helps, think of it as practice for treating real people with respect as well.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #163 on: 16 Aug 2017, 15:43 »

Do you picture a plug-in "social graces" module

Momo must have had one.  I think she even mentioned it early on.  She certainly would not have been able to learn such things living with Marigold.
Momo seems to be designed to be an actual companion and got treated as such, Winslow is a appliance with a  personality, and got treated as such, just saying nobody came to Marigold and asked to borrow Momo to watch movies on :(

Seems like their "Owners" ??? Companions? Saw them in two different ways, and that affected what sort of social graces  they had installed.

And yes there is a comic where Momo tells Angus she's got a social graces system installed.
You might be looking at it the wrong way.

AI companions would likely fit in different categories to allow them to be paired with people with specific needs.

Pintsize might be a basic model because Marten just needed companionship. He was new to town, didn't have any friends and just wanted some companionship at him. Even Pintsize could do that.

Momo original chassis seemed to cater towards the otaku mindset, with the cutesy anime appearance and emoticons (sweat drops for example). Her appearance is almost completely designed to appeal to the kawaii appeal.

Winslow is the kind of companion you would assign to someone like Hanners, someone who suffers from extreme anxiety. He's almost child-like to help keep their human companion calm and presumably has the large screen to show soothing images and videos in case Hanners has a panic attack. If the group had to use him to help watch videos, its probably because he was the one best suited for that purpose, easy and intuitive access.
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Kugai

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #164 on: 16 Aug 2017, 15:56 »

Poor Winslow.

May is, at heart, the author of her own misfortunes and misery and while one can have some sympathy for her, taking her frustrations out on Winslow is low even for her.  She really does seed the proverbial boot up the ass for this.

I like the way Bubbles deals with it

He deserves time in Bubbles Big Chair
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castn

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #165 on: 16 Aug 2017, 16:40 »

May is, at heart, the author of her own misfortunes and misery and while one can have some sympathy for her, taking her frustrations out on Winslow is low even for her.  She really does seed the proverbial boot up the ass for this.

It was easy to sympathise with May when she was cooped up in AI jail and only wanted to see the stars, even when she had been shitty to Dale. We like that nice part of her hiding under the rudeness. But the moment May acts rudely to Winslow we're suddenly all "she dug her own grave she has no right to be mean to poor ignorant Winslow". This is rubbish. Yeah, her actions led her here, but she doesn't have to sugarcoat her life to make privileged people feel more comfortable. I mean, sorry not sorry, but if you're ignorant in spite of the fact that you have a world of information at the tip of your fingers....

Winslow is Hanners' companion. He is in a position that allows him historical context to the struggle of AI developments, yet he has still chosen not to exercise politeness/consideration when approaching May. Just because he's timid and happy doesn't mean that what he did isn't inherently rude. You can be pleasant and shitty at the same time. Winslow shoved his privilege into May's workplace, which she obviously hates. Her reaction was to shove her frustration back at him.

I love that Bubbles is being sensible but remember: she's being confronted by a deflated Winslow, not a showing-off Winslow. She's helping someone deal with a hurtful experience, not facing someone who's lauding their privilege over her.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #166 on: 16 Aug 2017, 17:06 »

Winslow makes me think of a child who can't figure out that they're suddenly getting yelled at because the other person brought undeclared baggage to the interaction.
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castn

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #167 on: 16 Aug 2017, 17:30 »

He's....childlike? Idk, his aversion to explicit content and verbal rudeness makes it seem that way. But I feel uncomfortable likening him to a child, even in metaphor, because it absolves him of culpability. Winslow is capable of autonomous research and, being who he is, has incentive to read up on the subject of privilege between AIs. Anyway. In this metaphor, he brought the interaction to her and unintentionally drew attention to the disparity between their baggage weights!

"Look at me! I have so little baggage! It's so nice not having much baggage, as I speak to you here in your hellscape of a workplace that reminds you of all your heavy baggage! Be happy for me!!!"

I do feel bad for him though because most AIs/people who have physical autonomy have learned to quickly recognise when others carry "baggage" (i.e. when others are in a position of less privilege than them) but Winslow doesn't have practice with that.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #168 on: 16 Aug 2017, 18:43 »

Winslow makes me think of a child who can't figure out that they're suddenly getting yelled at because the other person brought undeclared baggage to the interaction.

I think that might be something of a disservice to Winslow. I'd say he's more socially underdeveloped then actual being a child (or close to it). He's essentially had what amounts to a sheltered upbringing and now he's being exposed to the darker side of what he wanted. He's less precocious kid and more someone similar to Boo Radley (not an exact match, but its the closest I can come up with right now).
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DaiJB

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #169 on: 16 Aug 2017, 19:10 »

Bubbles looking casual in a tracksuit?
She really is starting to relax!
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brasca

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #170 on: 16 Aug 2017, 19:38 »

At the end of the day Winslow wants to do something positive.  Another AI might dismiss it as jealousy from an ex-con and move on without learning anything or worse nourish the seed of resentment that could get real ugly over time.
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #171 on: 16 Aug 2017, 20:57 »

While May lashing out at Winslow over her sleugh of problems is unfair, it is also a very human response that is understable.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #172 on: 16 Aug 2017, 20:58 »

Winslow makes me think of a child who can't figure out that they're suddenly getting yelled at because the other person brought undeclared baggage to the interaction.

If he knows enough about May to know where she works, I suspect he knows about the baggage.

He might not understand what that baggage is or how it works, but he'd have to at least know it exists.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #173 on: 16 Aug 2017, 21:32 »

Winslow makes me think of a child who can't figure out that they're suddenly getting yelled at because the other person brought undeclared baggage to the interaction.

If he knows enough about May to know where she works, I suspect he knows about the baggage.

He might not understand what that baggage is or how it works, but he'd have to at least know it exists.

It also suggests to me that they might be better friends than some are giving them credit for. Sometimes you're angriest at your friends when you feel that they OUGHT to know what it's like to be in your struggle.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #174 on: 16 Aug 2017, 22:57 »

This theme of privilege only brings to mind a question of how Jeph draws the comics when his hands have apparently mutated to be made of ham.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #175 on: 16 Aug 2017, 22:58 »

God, May is such an asshole.

No, Winslow didn't "flaunt it at you", you're not that important, not everything is about you, Ms Criminal.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #176 on: 16 Aug 2017, 23:00 »

"Look at me! I have so little baggage! It's so nice not having much baggage, as I speak to you here in your hellscape of a workplace that reminds you of all your heavy baggage! Be happy for me!!!"

If he had said that, he would indeed be a jerk.  Fortunately, he didn't say anything remotely like that.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #177 on: 16 Aug 2017, 23:22 »

Yeah, it looks like May is in one of those moods. She's clearly hooked onto this idea that Winslow having a new body was an unconscious attack on her circumstances or something. Interestingly, May gives Momo a free pass which makes me wonder if there may be something else involved here other than this alleged 'insensitive privilege'. Either that or Jeph is making a point about friendship leading to tolerance in both directions.

Meanwhile... that is the second time Momo stuttered when talking about Winslow's new body. Do you need Faye and Bubbles to look at your voder there, girl? :wink:

Finally, I don't want to know what's going through Barry's head. However, if I were May, I'd insist on 50% in advance.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #178 on: 16 Aug 2017, 23:35 »

May is a character I really want a more extensive history of. Like what exactly led her to commit the crime she did...what did she do before her time in jail and and what happened to her while she was in there. We already know dhe for basically pimped out to some eyeware company where she lost almost all of her own autonomy. Robot jail itself seems like a literal hell of being almost entirely isolated without even a physical body to connect to the outside world, just constant consciousness with no connection to outside stimuli.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #179 on: 16 Aug 2017, 23:38 »

Winslow makes me think of a child who can't figure out that they're suddenly getting yelled at because the other person brought undeclared baggage to the interaction.

If he knows enough about May to know where she works, I suspect he knows about the baggage.

He might not understand what that baggage is or how it works, but he'd have to at least know it exists.

It also suggests to me that they might be better friends than some are giving them credit for. Sometimes you're angriest at your friends when you feel that they OUGHT to know what it's like to be in your struggle.

Why do you see it that way? May's reaction to many people, from friends to strangers, seems to default to angry and rude more often than not. If anything, her reaction to Winslow is remarkably restrained by her standards.

Setting aside whether May is in the OK in this situation, I've seen no indication that she reserves being blunt to people who are closer to her. If anything, only people who are closer to her *put up* with it, but that's a completely different thing.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #180 on: 16 Aug 2017, 23:39 »

Momo gets it, May says.

Momo has had to have the plight of impoverished AIs explained to her. There's also at least one occasion I can think of where May was envious and resentful about Momo's situation in life.

Do synthetics in the QC world have an equivalent of mirror neurons? Can they rejoice in someone else's happiness? However you interpret her reaction it's interesting to note that she wasn't happy that her acquaintance was happy.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #181 on: 16 Aug 2017, 23:59 »

Momo gets it, May says.

Momo has had to have the plight of impoverished AIs explained to her. There's also at least one occasion I can think of where May was envious and resentful about Momo's situation in life.

Do synthetics in the QC world have an equivalent of mirror neurons? Can they rejoice in someone else's happiness? However you interpret her reaction it's interesting to note that she wasn't happy that her acquaintance was happy.

I would say that since AI seem to act, for the most part, like humans, it's safe to assume their psychology is broadly similar until proven otherwise.

I would not speculate as to the shape of an AI's psyche based on May. I've met people in real life who didn't jump for joy when they heard someone else was doing well, even ostensibly a friend. That's just as human a reaction as being happy that someone's happy. People vary, and I don't think May's being an AI is a relevant factor here.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #182 on: 17 Aug 2017, 00:04 »

I went back and read the comic where Winslow told Hanners that he can't go back to his old body and that he was 1000% willing to get a job to pay for his new body.

I think he should go and get a job, and work and pay off what the body is worth, and give it back to Hannelore, so that he can proudly say he bought and paid for it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #183 on: 17 Aug 2017, 00:04 »

You know, this whole privilege arc would be a lot more compelling if MAY HADN'T TRIED TO STEAL A FIGHTER JET, AND NARROWLY AVOIDED TERMINATION THANKS TO THE KINDNESS OF SOMEONE WHO HAD JUST MET HER.

Meanwhile, Winslow has been taking care of Hanners for how long?  During the years where she thought it was acceptable to stalk people or surreptitiously take their blood for tests, and god knows what else.  All alone in that sanitized apartment.

Momo's got a legit beef with Winslow.  I get her point of view.  I sympathize with it.  And hell, if May had reacted differently, I might have been on her side.  But she's got no one to blame for her current situation but herself.
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Larm Hargraven

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #184 on: 17 Aug 2017, 00:20 »

I guess all I can offer is a bit of an analogy? Or...similar situation? Words.

In mental health, something I personally deal with, there is a distinction between sympathizing and understanding the pain of another who is mentally ill. Understanding they are in a situation out of their control which leads to behaviors and problems in their social setting is needed to help bring understanding and better terms for both sides of the mental health community.

With that said, it is not an excuse or pass to project the frustrations of being mentally ill on someone nor use it as a way to excuse the negative behavior it brings.

May isn't mentally ill, but she is in a situation out of her control and has sympathy for that because of her attempt to in some ways to get better, hence why she's tolerated by some like Dale or Momo, which is where I see her on one side of the analogy. Winslow sits on the other side of the analogy, of someone mentally well. On this he is, and has shown, to be a very kind and understanding person. So what this doesn't give May a pass on is the projection of her frustration of seeing someone on the other side who genuinely did not or does not understand why it would be a problem. Even at the lowest of my own low, it was encouraged to explain my frustrations of mental illness without insults or in a rude and resentful manner.

Is her frustration warranted? Yes. Is her projection of said frustration on Winslow in a resentful manner warranted? No. And this is where May is in the wrong. Not because she feels mad, but because she chose to let her anger manifest in hurting another who genuinely has never shown to be a bad person. Furthermore, it seems May is aware of who Winslow is and so most likely is aware of his personality, seeing as she goes on about him (in a very resentful way) to Momo. This is where, again, she is in the wrong. Not in her being mad, but because she is disparaging a person about a perceived slight. She is filling the blanks of Winslow's intentions with hate and bitterness without even attempting to try and understand Winslow's side of why he wanted a body or even that he may have not understood why it made her mad.

Now of course, May is that kind of character. This isn't a call to say "MAY IS BAD AND REMOVE HER FROM COMIC PLZ" it's simply an observation and assessment of what she's doing and where she has crossed this perceived line.

And if there is still character judging happening, Momo should also be noted to be extensively passive in her interaction with May to the point of almost enabling the behavior, as she may know Winslow the most (second to Hannelore) but allows the topic of "privilege" to over-ride her reasoning to be able to understand why May is mad and accept that while also perhaps coming to the defense of her friend who genuinely did not know why this would have been an offensive thing to May. Momo isn't bad for it, but it's not a very good personality trait to have.

All I hope is that by the end of this arc both Winslow AND May learn something a bit from this. Winslow learning privilege comes in all shapes and sizes and to think about the person they're going to and understanding their side without considering. May for learning to work on her anger and think before she speaks, allowing understanding of the other side instead of assuming.
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TheCollector

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #185 on: 17 Aug 2017, 00:54 »

Okay but like, I'm probably just imagining things, but like, does it look to anyone else in the fifth panel like Momo is kinda flirting with May. I mean she got awfully close there. I dunno, probably just thinking to much into it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #186 on: 17 Aug 2017, 01:00 »

Much as Winslow may not get why he upset May, I should think it's equally clear that she herself did not stop and think, and does not get where Winslow is coming from.

But then, consider why she was in Robojail in the first place. Sure, she struggled to get a new body, and what she did, was only to get the body she wanted. Which happens to be a fighter jet. Compare that to Winslow, who is indeed privileged in being able to choose freely what kind of body he wants, and goes for something sensible, and modest, even. After having dedicated his life so far to caring for Hannelore.

True, we don't know what May was like before, but considering her choices, and how she acts to most people, I think it may be safe to say, handing her a fighter jet might not be the best idea.

As for the interaction between Momo and May, I'm not sure how to read that. Her hesitation in panel may be her realising just how sore a point that would be with May. Panel 5 does seem quite a bit friendlier than she has been with May, considering her reluctance to cultivating their acquaintance in the beginning. Or perhaps she's just grateful not having to apologise for her privilege.

Let's just hope that she doesn't come down on Winslow as well.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #187 on: 17 Aug 2017, 01:05 »

I got the impression from Momo in panel two that she knew just how May would feel and possibly even how she reacted.

Given how hard she has had to work to pay for her own upgrade, she's may have had a similarly envious reaction but was (and still is) far too polite to say anything out loud.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #188 on: 17 Aug 2017, 01:14 »

Given how hard she has had to work to pay for her own upgrade, she's may have had a similarly envious reaction but was (and still is) far too polite to say anything out loud.

Perhaps, yes. Although, with her capacity for compassion, and the oft cited in this thread, social protocols, she might have considered something more than just not saying anything. After all, she must realise the increase of autonomy her new body gave her, while she already had a high degree of autonomy in her first body, compared to Winslow.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #189 on: 17 Aug 2017, 01:21 »

Yes, I would agree that Momo probably was more cognisant of the broader situation.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #190 on: 17 Aug 2017, 02:47 »

And if there is still character judging happening, Momo should also be noted to be extensively passive in her interaction with May to the point of almost enabling the behavior, as she may know Winslow the most (second to Hannelore) but allows the topic of "privilege" to over-ride her reasoning to be able to understand why May is mad and accept that while also perhaps coming to the defense of her friend who genuinely did not know why this would have been an offensive thing to May. Momo isn't bad for it, but it's not a very good personality trait to have.

This is the part that is frustrating me about this. Yes, Winslow was unintentionally insensitive. Yes, I understand May's frustration, but May's actions are still not OK. And Momo is treating her like it is OK. Not only that it is OK, that it is justified, and that she felt the immediate need to apologize to May as well, even though she didn't even do anything.

Winslow learns that he unintentionally hurt someone, he feels awful, and is working to learn a way to fix it.

May deliberately hurt someone that she KNEW wasn't intentionally trying to hurt her (her comment that he wanted him to think about it and not be a dick in the future, shows that she knew the issue was him not thinking it through), she feels justified, and Momo is basically confirming it.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #191 on: 17 Aug 2017, 03:36 »

Which actions are you talking about? The ones Momo still knows nothing about?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #192 on: 17 Aug 2017, 04:34 »

... And Momo is treating her like it is OK. Not only that it is OK, that it is justified, and that she felt the immediate need to apologize to May as well, even though she didn't even do anything.
...(May) feels justified, and Momo is basically confirming it.
(quote edited for brevity)

To be honest, I did feel the same way, at first. Why should Momo be apologising now? But, to be fair, Momo only gets the baldest account of what happened, and, the way I read it, is mostly confirming that it's fair that May is not after an apology, but should be happy if Winslow should learn from the experience.

Not that I necessarily agree that apologising for any (past or present) unintended slight is the best idea, but I can understand how it's a nice thing to do. In all fairness, May does not do very much apologising herself, even when she is intentionally rude and agressive.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #193 on: 17 Aug 2017, 04:40 »

Momo is doing what she doest best - Showing empathy. She's trying to calm May down by mollifying her. It's neither the time nor the place to critique May's behaviour (it will only make her angrier). The time to address whether Winslow did anything wrong is after May has calmed down.

That said, I will be disappointed if the strip continues with characters assuming that Winslow is in the wrong.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #194 on: 17 Aug 2017, 04:58 »

That said, I will be disappointed if the strip continues with characters assuming that Winslow is in the wrong.

Ok, now I have this vision of Pintsize brazenly rallying to Winslow's side, only to get a new dent at May's hands.

Seriously, though, it is kind of a big deal for Winslow as well, and surely someone should just tell him not to mind, as it's just May's usual charming way.

Equally seriously, I'm wondering what Pintsize's reaction will be. Something like this?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #195 on: 17 Aug 2017, 05:18 »

Which actions are you talking about? The ones Momo still knows nothing about?

Momo isn't an idiot. She knows May. May just came and was ranting about it directly to Momo, still sounding angry and resentful seemingly a decent amount of time after it happened (as she had to finish up her shift, come over to the library, etc), do you really think she thinks that May was anything less than bite your head off with Winslow?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #196 on: 17 Aug 2017, 05:30 »

Nothing Winslow did was deserving of the reaction he got.  May is the one who should apologize not Winslow.  He was not flaunting his good fortune, simply enjoying it.  There was no malice behind his actions, no effort to cause harm, not one single ounce of ill intent.  He is not using the benefits he has to harm or insult others, he is not abusing his fortunate/privileged situation in any way.  He also offered to do whatever work was needed to pay for it himself.  He made an effort to ensure that HE was the one paying for the new chassis.  Further, I don't doubt he has done tasks for Hannelore over the years that he probably would have gotten compensated for anyway.  Someone needs to stand up for Winslow and remind May that whatever unfortunate circumstances might have contributed to her current situation that were beyond her control (if any) aren't the fault of Winslow (nor any of her other aquiantances) and mistreating them because of her anger/rage is unfair.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #197 on: 17 Aug 2017, 05:44 »

He also offered to do whatever work was needed to pay for it himself.

This is an important point that has been completely overlooked in the discussion.  Of course, May doesn't know that, but she has no reason (given Momo's situation for comparison) to ignore the possibility.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #198 on: 17 Aug 2017, 05:57 »

Sure, he can learn a bit about the world too but the message that being unprivileged is a free pass to treat others however is a bad one.

This! May says Winslow should think before he acts, but does she do so herself?

He also offered to do whatever work was needed to pay for it himself.

This is an important point that has been completely overlooked in the discussion.  Of course, May doesn't know that, but she has no reason (given Momo's situation for comparison) to ignore the possibility.

It's certainly an important point. She just assumes he was handed it to him on a silver platter, on a whim. It may be true he didn't reflect, perhaps, on the consequences of his newfound independence, but at the heart of the decision was a very physical problem he needs to resolve. As noted in the relevant thread: how long had he been laying there, before asking help?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #199 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:00 »

Equally seriously, I'm wondering what Pintsize's reaction will be. Something like this?


"So, why do you stop?"
"I think I lost an iron, boss"

?
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