Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

Something bothering me a lot

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Aenno:
I'm living in Russia, QC written in English, and I haven't a lot of people who seen QC here. I found it quite suddenly, just looking into my daily Pintrest sweep; I had 2891 ("You're beautiful"), then I looked into some more, then I believed I need to know whole story, well, how big it can be?.., and started with first issue. Well, shows what I knew. Conveniently, weather is jumping 10 degrees in a day here in Moscow this week, and that's mean nobody I'm working or live with would try to get me out from bed, so I had a luxury to read it strait. It took 3 days, but totaly worth it.

But I have a problem. Sorry I'm throwing all of this at you just as my first post, by I really felt it and I really need somebody to talk about it.

I loved QC. As a sidenote, I'm amazed by a man who managed to picture 3670 issues in 15 years, improving artistic skill so much. I have some kind of weird artistic disability, so I even was relieved from arts classes in high school, so I'm always amazed with a people who can make a picture. It's kind of magic I haven't. And here I saw a great embodiment of this magic. But, well, it's not just amazement by artistic magic was here.
You see, I left my father's house when I was 15, and I had my amount of weird social circles. And I loved looking into people who have lives actually like my live, and like my friends lives. Of course, I still can't believe in Marten HELL THIS GUY IS ABLE TO NOTICE NEW GLASSES ON A GIRL IN THE MORNING AFTER PARTY WHEN THIS GLASSES ARE TOTALY LIKE OLD GLASSES, HE CAN'T EXIST! let's just say he is nearly too perfect. I haven't a friend who is a multibillionaire daughter with OCD. But well, I looked at this guys and gals and I felt relation.

And then robots happened.

Don't take me wrong. I really love sci-fi. I love sci-fi and fantasy comics. I used to think that I'm nerd. But for me robots were actually out of the place.
There is Marten. He is awesome (HELL HE CAN NOTICE NEW GLASSE... ahm sorry). He has human problems, problems I can totally relate. He had relations, he had purposefulness issues, I can't say I was in his place exactly, but I can feel for him.
There is Faye. Can't say I'm a fan of Faye as a human being, but I can look at her as for human being. She has here issues with her father demise, and she had her alcohol issues; I never been in her shoes, but I know people who was, and I can relate for her.
There is Dora with insecurity, Hannelore with anxiety, Sven with... well, you know. Marigold, Tai, Veronica, Claire... I loved them all because they're human beings with a problems I can relate directly. I don't need to invent things here.

Enter Bubbles.
Problems Bubbles has:
She actually is a AI designed and optimized for combat. Sorry, can't relate. She doesn't know a place for AI designed and optimized for combat in a human society. Sorry, can't really relate. She had parts of her memory deleted by spooky AI crime lady, there was a hole in her mind and there was something really unpleasant there. Sorry, can't really relate. She need to work for said spooky crime lady to be able to return said memories. Can't really relate. And she get better with intervention of super powerful AI that lurking Somewhere Out There, because their own ethical reasons, and nobody actually could do anything else about it. Well, guess what - can't really relate.
Of course, I can just imagine that Bubbles is a soldier who came from war without actual skills in civil life. I know more people with this issues then I want to know (Russia had two Chechen Wars in my lifetime, not to mention Afgan War of my senior acquaintances, not to mention some other instances), and, well, we have a draft army here. But Bubbles is AI. I can't really imagine how it would be to have AI instead of my own biological mind. I can't imagine what it is to be modeled after human but being something another. So, I can't really relate.

For a time I spoke to myself - "well, maybe they're AIs, but they're humanlike enough to have human problems, so I just need to think it's humans with some problems". As I said, I can imagine PTSD soldier, or rich kid who is trying to make things better, or former convict, all that things, so relate for them same way I relate Hannelore (as I said, not many multibilliarder daughters around in my social circle, but I can relate for Hannelore). But then I thought - hell, isn't it defeating the point?
I mean, and please take me right, when I'm for diversity, I'm not for plain equalization. If I say "hey, Hannelore, you're just a human being like me!" - would not I be a jerk? I mean, Hannelore isn't like me. She had issues I haven't, and even if I can believe they're ridicules, they aren't for her. So if I'm gonna be good, I should remember that Hannelore don't give hugs. I should keep in mind that Faye, maybe, isn't so fond about suicide jokes, and I better not to replace her juice with bourbone as a friendly prank. Every being deserves understanding of its issues and if I wanna to be a friend with such a being I should keep their issues in mind.
Then there is two possibilities.
First is that being AI is nothing else that being human, it's exactly same issues and psychology. It is possible, sure (AFAIK, between me and everybody else on this planet nobody can really describe strong AI); but wouldn't it just defeat the issue? So thing would be "we're all different, but AIs are same as we are"? "You should notice basic story of every living creature, but being an AI is essentially nothing, just ignore it"?
Second is that being AI is something different, with socially acceptable possibility to change bodies just for couple of money (tell it Claire), with being able to lock psychological problems with competent programming (tell it Faye), and some unique issues that came with a status; but can somebody of humans really relate for specific AI issues?

For me QC just broke on two parts: one with human common problems, you know, that kind I need to fix in my own life all the time; and another with Singularity, with robot civil rights and philosophical problems about nature of the mind, soul and existence. And first part is far more interesting.

Also I really feel bad about the stolen memory arc ending. Faye hadn't some kind of overpowered AI that came and said - hey, we fixed your problem with your dad and alcohol, be happy, no strings attached because we have ethical reasons. No overpowered AI just came and fixed Hannelore psychosis (and they, you know, tried!), because it isn't something you can fix with pressing a button. Nobody came to Claire (as far as I know?..) with a magical wand and said - all your body problems is fixed now, because we just hate jerks who take it funny with sever transgender. It was a big work for everybody, and it is far from end on current state.
For everybody but Bubbles, who literally needed just to sit and wait.

I know, it was a lot, but can somebody share his/her thoughts about this?

oddtail:
Hi there, and welcome to the forum =)

I'm not 100% on what you mean, but from what I understand, you have a problem with QC being a relatable comic with relatable characters, and Bubbles (and other AI? You haven't really talked about Pintsize or Momo etc., and they've been in the comic longer) is not relatable... due to being an AI, I assume?

I mean, I guess I get it, but I'm curious why a particular character not being relatable is an issue that spoils the enjoyment of the comic for you. There are quite a few characters in the comic that I enjoy reading about, and I can't relate to them at all. Sven, Beatrice, Raven, Dale - to name a few - were all human characters that I couldn't really relate to in any meaningful way. I still enjoyed reading about them. Heck, many of the characters from the main cast have problems, attitudes and personalities that don't really mesh with my life experience most of the time (and if they do, it's somewhat tangential - not really to a lesser extent that I relate to Bubbles' problems, to be perfectly honest), and I find them enjoyable anyway. When something is not relatable, I either wait for a more interesting plotline, or read about something that's new and exciting due to NOT being like anything I'm familiar with.

I don't think fictional characters MUST be relatable to be enjoyable. Fiction can be escapist, or it can be exploratory, and both of these things sometimes call for characters that are OUTSIDE what the reader can relate to. Batman is one of the most recognizable, popular and enjoyed characters in modern fiction, and if I were to take a wild guess, I'd assume most people can't relate to anything about Bruce Wayne's life.

As to the point that AI are not relatable by virtue of being AI... ehhh, I suppose, but again - sci-fi can be a reflection of life, but to do that correctly, it has to be exploratory as well. And AI from the QC-verse are, and the narrative makes a point of emphasizing that they are, very similar to humans in what they need, how they live and how they react. They blush when embarrassed, for cryin' out loud. With the possible exception of Spookybot, AI are not a riff on the "what ifs" of completely alien and incomprehensible minds, they are a riff on normal, "human" (for the lack of a better word) reaction to certain situations in life. BUT, that doesn't mean they are completely the same as human characters (as you seem to be implying). The differences don't make them completely different, but exploring familiar issues with a changed setup is what makes fiction interesting. Bubbles, like other AI, has problems and conversations and little joys that are sometimes exactly the same that those of a similar human, but sometimes they are just different. The fact that Bubbles is an AI is not incidental to the character. A human character would have a different dynamic.

In the end, you seem to imply (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that AI either are basically human for all intents and purposes, or they are something completely different. I feel that the fact that they are essentially BOTH is kind of the point, narratively, of their existence in the comic. They have their own issues that humans (either readers of the comic, or human characters IN the comic) can't relate to, but in other ways they are very similar. I'm not sure why it needs to be one or the other. To name a famous character that's arguably very relatable - Harry Potter doesn't need to be JUST a wizard, with a life and problems unlike anything any reader has ever seen, OR just a regular school-aged boy. Picking just the "wizard" part would make the character less relatable, less of an everyman and would not hit certain notes that make many readers root for him, but getting rid of the "wizard" part altogether would change the stories significantly, turning them into regular school drama (not that there's anything wrong with that).

To rephrase what I said earlier - AI are neither alien, nor are they basically humans that are pointlessly being called "AI". The fact that they are not human changes and influences and informs the story, and the fact that they act basically human makes them interesting characters rather than abstract intellectual exercises for the reader to ponder.

In the end, if the fact that the story has AI characters in it doesn't click with you, it's just not for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't like Bubbles and her storyline, there will probably at some point be focus on other characters. But to your main point, which seems to be "I can't relate", my best answer is - not everything in fiction needs to be relatable. You can't relate to Bubbles, and that's fine. People don't relate to Hannibal Lecter, but still enjoy the character.

(and a small correction - from what I understand about the story's setting, AI aren't modelled after humans. They are just emergent intelligences, they are neither manufactured nor designed. The fact that they have similar psychology to humans hasn't been explained in-comic, but it's been - from what I understand - pretty clearly explained that they are NOT consciously MEANT to be like humans. They just happen to be similar.)

As to the stolen memories story arc and the almost literal deus ex machina ending that arc - eh, I'm not a fan of this narrative development at ALL, so I'm not even gonna defend it. I see the purpose behind it, but talking about it would feel a bit too much like playing Devil's Advocate to what I felt to be rather clumsy writing. I'm sure there are other forumites who like the plot resolution more and will be happy to chime in.

Aenno:
Sorry, I would try to clarify myself.
As I said, I like sci-fi for sure. And I like AI-problem. I love "The Bicentennial Man", it was one of the first novels I even read.
My problem with AIs in QC isn't about they're AI as they are. They can be something alien - I read Neuromancer, and I can't say Wintermute or Neuromancer are relatable guys, and still I'm adore that things.
But they had problems I can't even begin to understand, and it's actually a point. When I'm taking Neuromancer I'm going to think about AIs and humans relationships. That's absolutely ok.
Problem I had emerged when I had reading QC, launched quite parallel:
1. Faye story about PTSD, highly treated, with a great deal of support, who developed alcoholism, because, citing Faye herself, "if trauma were that easy dealt with, psycologists would work pro bono", and such things happens exactly when you're trying just to lock traumatic memories and states with a key (bottle-shaped in Faye issue) in your mind.
2. Bubbles story about PTSD, without any treatment, without quarter a support Faye had, who just stopped worry because, well, spooky bots and specifics of being an AI.
Second one looks bland in comparison, exactly because it's happens about AI I can't exactly relate here. And I can't imagine how they're possible can be not compared, especially if you have "The Talk" arc fresh in your head.

Thing is, and that's why I speak about Bubbles mainly, not about Pintsize or Momo, Bubbles arc is a first arc (I believe) about AI having problems directly cored in being an AI, developed around being an AI and finished around being an AI. When Momo speaks about her being hated and it's hurts, I kinda recalling that Amanda was thrown out from home when she was found as a lesbian, or that it's just six characters in comics as far as I know who even know Claire is a transperson. No technology fixed bigotry there even by replacement of target.

For the thing about AIs never were modelled as a humans... well. As I got from story there, they are. It's quite possible they aren't intentionally - it's just...
"Hey, we're doing a chat-bot. Let's give them human literature to read, so chat-bot had a reason to chat about, also let's animate it with blushing and all that things." Chat-bot emerging intelligence - only info it have to create relations with outside intelligence is said literature - it's modeled as a human. They can blush exactly because it's what humans do, and engineers believed it's cute (I believe it was said in comics directly).

sitnspin:
I think you fundamentally misread the story arc of Bubbles' memories. Spooky Bot didn't solve all of her problems. It got her away from Corpsewitch, but that's all. Bubbles still feels the loss of her missing memories, she still has PTSD, she still has her anxiety, she still has her insecurity and inexperience with relationships. No one magically cured her. All the problems she has that actually matter are just as relatable as those of the human cast members.

Aenno:
I can't say I see it. I mean, sure, I can misread everything there, but.

PTSD by very definition demanding her to directly avoid situations that created stress, and when this situations arise breakdowns happens. Faye in "The Talk", for instance, describes classical PTSD, and she shows classical PTSD when Angus leaves. Bubbles, in the other hand, quite content with Spooky Bot rummaging her mind (and a man with PTSD can't make rational decisions like "well, I can't do anything against it anyway", because it's traumatic experience), she is definitely ok with a very idea of establishing close relationships and even declares to Faye that her friendship is a sole source of joy in this part of her existence. She is quite content with a human entering her mind. She is quite content about establishing closer relationships with Faye and her friends. It's totally no a person with PTSD ever would be able to do.

Anxiety? At scene with Spooky Bot suddenly appears Bubbles is a paragon of stoicism and rationality. And actually she demanding Spooky Bot to stop playing with Faye anxieties. With a problem with Corpse Witch going to run she can rationalize a problem and leave a loose tail basing on ethical and rational basis. When Faye says - hey, we're starting a business, Bubbles shows no anxiety at all, just, well, interested why she wasn't informed before.

insecurity? When she is put into situation where she have a choice - accept Spooky Bot words on faith, or go breakdown, she takes them on faith. No way person with insecurity ever can do it, because, well, it's the direct problem of having insecurity disorders. Dora has insecurity problems, looks how good is she to do such things.
Actually the only situation we see Bubbles shows any concern about situation after Spooky Bot arc, was a situation where she was furious about Faye making all decisions without asking Bubble's about, well, anything and directly declaring herself as an executive for their operation (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3456). And when she do she came to "Coffee of Doom" and venting off by speaking with a human.

Inexperience with relationships?
She is inexperienced with romantic relationships, maybe. But she is definitely socially adequate at a hell level for a person who spend some last years with PTSD on illegal robot fight pit.
She is totally ok establishing friendships, lending and taking helping hands.
She is able to retort to another people's experience, asking Dora for help to explain business works.
She is able to actually ask about Claire status in Marten and Faye apartments, on the, what, second day living there?
She is able to evaluate Faye character enough to joke about it.
She is able to joke about her physical attire and capabilities.
She is able to maintain solid work and friendship relationships with a person she (supposedly) romantically interested.
Actually it's solid adult level, with flying colors.

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