Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT

WCDT strips 3681 to 3685 (19-23 February 2018)

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BryanP:
I've been Dale level clueless in my life.  I turn 50 this year, so remembering my 20s accurately is a problem.

It's easy for me to say what he should have said.  Something like "She's a lot of things, including my friend, but she's not YOU." 

20 year old me probably would have said something as stupid and useless as what Dale just did.

Emperor Norton:
I wouldn't even consider it emotionally illiterate. I also wouldn't consider it "stupid and useless". We have no idea what his point was, or what he was about to say: She never let him finish talking.

Emperor Norton:
Here, let me explain more thoroughly by what I mean about a lack of sympathy for people who are having to deal with other people's mental issues (which I agree are self esteem issues are not necessarily pathological, but it is still on the list of things that we generally fall into this trap over)

I've had a lot of relationships with people who have had various issues. Depression. Self-esteem. Anger. Social phobias. Sexual issues stemming from abuse.

I have struggled with depression and self-esteem in the past, but for the most part, I've worked through it. For quite a while, I've been a well-adjusted adult who has a handle on their life.

When people who have issues lash out, people excuse it based on the issues they have. They get to act badly and it "isn't their fault, they are struggling with things".

On the other hand, if you don't react perfectly to every single thing they do, you get called "emotionally illiterate" or told that the things you did are "stupid and useless." People don't say "Wow, you got put in a bad situation and you tried your best, sorry that it didn't work out, I hope things go better." The sympathy isn't there for the person who has to try his best in a shit situation, instead, they get a list of what they did wrong. It's your failing. Every single time. You are considered to have failed. I just think we need to watch how we say things like that.

Is it some projection? Of course it is. All narratives are going to have some projection. But seriously, imagine yourself in a position where you get dealt a shit hand, you try, you are cut off, you never get to even finish your thought, and all people are talking about is how "he is jumping up and down on a mine" or how dumb what he is doing is. And you can say "Well we aren't talking to someone's face, this is just a fictional situation", but how much do you want to bet at least one person reading this thread has been put in a similar situation in the past?

(I will point out, that this isn't universal in a sense. There are definitely people who fall on the other end, but I've found that, especially in the more liberal, more "aware" groups, that sympathy for people dealing with mental issues gets so high, that people who are having to try and support those people are not given nearly as much sympathy.)

EDIT, some notes to point out what I mean:

1. It was 9 posts into this thread before someone expressed anything other than Dale being incompetent. And even that was just a mention of having "some" sympathy.
2. It was 11 posts in until someone actually said anything resembling that this was a difficult position he was put in, and even in that post the person describes things as "I still can't imagine how he could have reacted worse" (paraphrased).

ckridge:
We are a bunch of web comic fans discussing niceties of social behavior in an internet chat room. This is pretty much like a nest of naked mole rats discussing aerodynamics. None of us are likely to have any of this right.

That said, this sounds right to me:


--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 19 Feb 2018, 05:27 ---I think it's more a case of Dale doing the classic thing of answering the question that's being asked rather than the question that's implied. I don't think that's his fault or that it's something he should be castigated for, it's just that the nature of the discussion is completely different to what he first thought so he's been taken off guard. In a perfect world he'd be in tune with what his partner's red flags are and spot when they are triggered, but even the most loving of couples aren't going to get that right all the time.

At a basic level, I don't think Marigold cares whether Dale thinks she's the cleverest or funniest. What matters to Marigold is whether Dale cares for her.

--- End quote ---

That nails it. The thing to say here is not whether, how, or in what respect Marigold is better or worse than Emily. The thing to say is that you like Marigold better than Emily. Then you say, not why you like her better, but how you like her better. You fuck saying it up completely, because you did not rehearse for this, but you reel forward blushing, sweating, and stammering, because your sweetie is suffering because of how she feels about you, and this is what you can do to help. With a little luck you get credit for having the right feelings though no ability to express them, and she feels better. What matters is that she should feel better. The whole concept here is that you care about how she feels.

I am coming down harder on Dale than on Marigold, because I have no idea how to be a good girlfriend but have studied on being a decent boyfriend. One reason he is messing up is because he can't quite believe that anyone would care about his feelings, and so is trying to speak of what is objectively the case. That is an easy mistake to make, but you don't have to make it.

You get an awful lot of second chances at this work, though. He can fix this if he thinks carefully what to do next.

Says the naked mole rat, speaking from his vast, Casanova-like experience of aerodynamics.

brightwings00:

--- Quote from: Emperor Norton ---Here, let me explain more thoroughly by what I mean about a lack of sympathy for people who are having to deal with other people's mental issues (which I agree are self esteem issues are not necessarily pathological, but it is still on the list of things that we generally fall into this trap over)

=snip--no offence intended, just wanted to reply to the whole post=
--- End quote ---

Thing is (what I'd argue),

a) I honestly don't know if Marigold's putting Dale on the defensive so much as seeking validation. There's "So you like working with Emily, huh" and "What were you laughing about as I came in?", but that doesn't quite read to me as an accusation. I think if she was accusing him of cheating there would be a lot more of "How much time do you spend together?" and "You think she's pretty, huh? Tell me more". It looks like she wants reassurance, primarily, and when Dale doesn't provide it she storms off in a huff--which no, definitely not an ideal response, but, well, she feels hurt and upset, and if Dale's not allowed to be perfect than Marigold's allowed to not be perfect, too.

b) There is (depressingly often) a dynamic at play where people--guys, primarily--get away with being tactless or thoughtless or socially illiterate under the guise of "just being honest" or "I'm only being logical" or "oh, they're just like that", and other people--primarily girls--are expected to pick up the emotional labour. I don't think anyone expects Dale to be perfect at reading people's feelings, but I also kind of hope "don't your SO they're not as pretty/smart/nice/funny as x person" would be social literacy 101.

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