Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
What is Bubbles' sexual orientation?
OldGoat:
--- Quote from: PhoneWytch on 18 May 2018, 18:53 ---What would you say the difference is between butch and tomboy?
--- End quote ---
"Butch" is more a deliberate choice about one's own appearance, "tomboy" is more about interests and behaviors? A butch person wants to be perceived as butch, a tomboy doesn't really give a good God damn, she just wants to go gig frogs with her brothers and would go in her Sunday dress if mom wouldn't raise Hell about it.
At least that's how my head sorts 'em out.
SpanielBear:
--- Quote from: Mad Cat on 20 May 2018, 17:27 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:19 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:12 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:07 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:03 ---He appears as a hologram of a male human.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but his physical body is a super-massive space station suitable for multiple human inhabitants. Calling that humanoid seems a bit of a stretch.
--- End quote ---
He loves Hannelore. I'm not sure where that fits in but it's important.
--- End quote ---
He does, yes. But the question seemed to be to what extent is an AI's humanlike personality traits a result of a humanoid chassis. To me the implication over the course of the comic has been that an AI's personality is emergent and has features independent of the body they're in. So an AI that isn't humanoid still behaves authentically as humanlike. That includes their gender identity- if Winslow says "I think I'm a boy.", that's a statement that deserves to be taken as true, not dismissed as if it were a casually chosen social lubricant.
--- End quote ---
My contention has never been that with humanoid form comes human-like gender. My contention has now refined to, we never see an AI without a humanoid form (holoavatars count) express a human-like gender. Winslow… may count, or not. I mean he fell down and his stubby limbs couldn't right himself. Does he even count as humanout in iPad form? Either way, his full-on humanoid form was imminent, so it would make sense that he would feel the need to lock in whaever human-like gender he may want at that point.
--- End quote ---
What bothers me about this is the implication that a sentient AI's reported experience is taken as being inauthentic. If someone says to me "I am a boy", how can I assume they are mistaken?
Mad Cat:
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:30 ---
--- Quote from: Mad Cat on 20 May 2018, 17:27 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:19 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:12 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:07 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:03 ---He appears as a hologram of a male human.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but his physical body is a super-massive space station suitable for multiple human inhabitants. Calling that humanoid seems a bit of a stretch.
--- End quote ---
He loves Hannelore. I'm not sure where that fits in but it's important.
--- End quote ---
He does, yes. But the question seemed to be to what extent is an AI's humanlike personality traits a result of a humanoid chassis. To me the implication over the course of the comic has been that an AI's personality is emergent and has features independent of the body they're in. So an AI that isn't humanoid still behaves authentically as humanlike. That includes their gender identity- if Winslow says "I think I'm a boy.", that's a statement that deserves to be taken as true, not dismissed as if it were a casually chosen social lubricant.
--- End quote ---
My contention has never been that with humanoid form comes human-like gender. My contention has now refined to, we never see an AI without a humanoid form (holoavatars count) express a human-like gender. Winslow… may count, or not. I mean he fell down and his stubby limbs couldn't right himself. Does he even count as humanout in iPad form? Either way, his full-on humanoid form was imminent, so it would make sense that he would feel the need to lock in whaever human-like gender he may want at that point.
--- End quote ---
What bothers me about this is the implication that a sentient AI's reported experience is taken as being inauthentic. If someone says to me "I am a boy", how can I assume they are mistaken?
--- End quote ---
More like I'm taking him at his word from the immediately PREVIOUS strip. "And I promise to always wear pants, no matter what my anatomical situation ends up being." Yeah. Winslow clearly had a strong sense of his human-like gender being masculine and wasn't a sentient iPad at all.
We've also seen spider-like and cephalopod embodied AIs. You seem to be indicating that they have no choice but to have human-like male/female genders. My only contention is… no, they don't.
SpanielBear:
--- Quote from: Mad Cat on 20 May 2018, 17:44 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:30 ---
--- Quote from: Mad Cat on 20 May 2018, 17:27 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:19 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:12 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:07 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:03 ---He appears as a hologram of a male human.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but his physical body is a super-massive space station suitable for multiple human inhabitants. Calling that humanoid seems a bit of a stretch.
--- End quote ---
He loves Hannelore. I'm not sure where that fits in but it's important.
--- End quote ---
He does, yes. But the question seemed to be to what extent is an AI's humanlike personality traits a result of a humanoid chassis. To me the implication over the course of the comic has been that an AI's personality is emergent and has features independent of the body they're in. So an AI that isn't humanoid still behaves authentically as humanlike. That includes their gender identity- if Winslow says "I think I'm a boy.", that's a statement that deserves to be taken as true, not dismissed as if it were a casually chosen social lubricant.
--- End quote ---
My contention has never been that with humanoid form comes human-like gender. My contention has now refined to, we never see an AI without a humanoid form (holoavatars count) express a human-like gender. Winslow… may count, or not. I mean he fell down and his stubby limbs couldn't right himself. Does he even count as humanout in iPad form? Either way, his full-on humanoid form was imminent, so it would make sense that he would feel the need to lock in whaever human-like gender he may want at that point.
--- End quote ---
What bothers me about this is the implication that a sentient AI's reported experience is taken as being inauthentic. If someone says to me "I am a boy", how can I assume they are mistaken?
--- End quote ---
More like I'm taking him at his word from the immediately PREVIOUS strip. "And I promise to always wear pants, no matter what my anatomical situation ends up being." Yeah. Winslow clearly had a strong sense of his human-like gender being masculine and wasn't a sentient iPad at all.
We've also seen spider-like and cephalopod embodied AIs. You seem to be indicating that they have no choice but to have human-like male/female genders. My only contention is… no, they don't.
--- End quote ---
I'm not saying that at all, I'm just saying if they do state their gender, we should take them at their word. Of course they can be gender fluid or undefined, as much as anyone.
I'll concede the previous strip is ambiguous- I took it to be a reference to the potential quality of his new chassis, as that had been what he had been discussing with Hannelore previously- as in, even if his chassis ended up being cheap and punchbot-esque with no primary sexual characteristics, he'd still wear pants. Thinking of himself as male was not contingent on having a male body. But like I say, I recognise that your reading isn't a necessarily incorrect way of interpreting the comic.
PhoneWytch:
--- Quote from: Mad Cat on 20 May 2018, 17:27 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:19 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:12 ---
--- Quote from: SpanielBear on 20 May 2018, 17:07 ---
--- Quote from: Is it cold in here? on 20 May 2018, 17:03 ---He appears as a hologram of a male human.
--- End quote ---
Sure, but his physical body is a super-massive space station suitable for multiple human inhabitants. Calling that humanoid seems a bit of a stretch.
--- End quote ---
He loves Hannelore. I'm not sure where that fits in but it's important.
--- End quote ---
He does, yes. But the question seemed to be to what extent is an AI's humanlike personality traits a result of a humanoid chassis. To me the implication over the course of the comic has been that an AI's personality is emergent and has features independent of the body they're in. So an AI that isn't humanoid still behaves authentically as humanlike. That includes their gender identity- if Winslow says "I think I'm a boy.", that's a statement that deserves to be taken as true, not dismissed as if it were a casually chosen social lubricant.
--- End quote ---
My contention has never been that with humanoid form comes human-like gender. My contention has now refined to, we never see an AI without a humanoid form (holoavatars count) express a human-like gender. Winslow… may count, or not. I mean he fell down and his stubby limbs couldn't right himself. Does he even count as humanout in iPad form? Either way, his full-on humanoid form was imminent, so it would make sense that he would feel the need to lock in whaever human-like gender he may want at that point.
--- End quote ---
To be fair though, Jeremy and Winslow both had traditionally male names before they acquired a humanoid form.
I would assume they chose their own names, as May chose her name after Dale suggested it.
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