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The Mandalorian
Tova:
--- Quote from: Case on 29 Nov 2020, 15:50 ---Hmmh. Still think like he sounds like he's holdiing in a wee.
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I now need to rewatch the episode with this mental image.
LeeC:
--- Quote from: Case on 29 Nov 2020, 11:35 ---So I'm just watching Ep1, Season 1 and ... I'm pretty sure Werner Herzog is consciously exaggerating certain 'German' mannerisms in his pronounciation. It's actually a bit grating, tbh. I'm wondering how this sounds to Anglophones? Could it be that he does that because he thinks this sounds ... badass ... to Anglo ears?
To me, it just sounds ... well, like someone consciously exaggerating stereotypically 'German' bad pronounciation habits (or rather, what Anglophones think is a 'typically German' pronounciation). Not threatening. Not intimidating. If anything, it sounds like he badly needs to go to the restroom.
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Is it weird that I didn't get "German" from his pronunciations? Honestly it seems more about his cadence, spoken prose, and enunciation that I just really dig. I could listen to him read the nutritional facts off a bag of chips. Especially in the 7th episode, but that may be more how his lines were written married up with his accent. He does remind me of a bond villain though, and if I didn't know his name was a dead give away of being German I would have thought he was Scandinavian like Mads Mikkelsen. It does seem close to his natural accent from watching him on the Late Night Show with Conan O'Brien and when he played an alien talking about human culture on Rick and Morty.
RedWolf4:
I mean, to me he definitely did sound like a continental who learned english from another continental, not necessarily German though. Now that I think about it maybe he was trying to sound more Aristocratic about it, being some Imperial and all? And same as Tova, I put it up to riffing on the 'Cliche' villain' approach to accents.
Case:
--- Quote from: LeeC on 29 Nov 2020, 19:15 ---<snip>
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--- Quote from: RedWolf4 on 30 Nov 2020, 23:18 ---<snip>
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(click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: LeeC on 29 Nov 2020, 19:15 ---Is it weird that I didn't get "German" from his pronunciations?
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Nope, not weird at all. I'm not at all certain that my theory is correct. Then again, I'd venture that I've likely listened to a lot more Germans speaking English than most Anglophones have? (Whatwith training with them)
--- Quote from: LeeC on 29 Nov 2020, 19:15 ---Honestly it seems more about his cadence, spoken prose, and enunciation that I just really dig. I could listen to him read the nutritional facts off a bag of chips. Especially in the 7th episode, but that may be more how his lines were written married up with his accent.
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Yeah, to me it's ... I notice the harsh fricatives and explosive sounds that are typical in German, but not English, the over-precise enunciation etc, and that's simply pretty close to how many advanced German students of English sound to me (*). We learn to make our pronounciation 'rounder' than we'd naturally do while learning English, and I think German emphasizes stops and pauses a bit more. Lastly, I think the 'melody' of German is a bit more 'flat' than the English one (less variation in frequency - though I think that last point is less typical of 'Werner Herzog Villain' than the 'Arnold Schwarzenegger School of robotic-sounding foreign accents')
I just have this feeling that he's consciously exaggerating some of his 'few remaining little tells' instead of trying to downplay them, like a German student of English would normally do? Maybe that's what stands out to me - my natural tendency would be to try to eliminate any remaining 'foreign-ness' in my English, whereas his speaking patterns in the Mandalorian sound to me like he's doing precisely the opposite.
--- Quote from: LeeC on 29 Nov 2020, 19:15 ---He does remind me of a bond villain though, and if I didn't know his name was a dead give away of being German I would have thought he was Scandinavian like Mads Mikkelsen.
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Well, there were some Germanophone Bond villains (Gerd 'I expect you to die, Mr Bond' Fröbe, Lotte Lenya, Curd Jürgens and Christopher Waltz - wiki). I'lladmit that other Germanic languages besides German may differ from English in similar ways - I think Swedish is rather close in pronounciation (I know nothing about Danish, though)?
--- Quote from: LeeC on 29 Nov 2020, 19:15 ---It does seem close to his natural accent from watching him on the Late Night Show with Conan O'Brien and when he played an alien talking about human culture on Rick and Morty.
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That's what I mean - it is his natural speaking voice, just exaggerated. Thing is that precisely the things that sound like Bond villain to you, are to me just very natural aspects of my native language (Same with Schwarzenegger's 'I'll be back' - sounds to me like he's a bit tired, rather than a 600 pound killing machine announcing it'll make short work of an adversary).
I do agree that his natural speaking voice does have 'a certain something'. It's not his voice - it's what he does with it?
--- Quote from: RedWolf4 on 30 Nov 2020, 23:18 ---I mean, to me he definitely did sound like a continental who learned english from another continental, not necessarily German though. Now that I think about it maybe he was trying to sound more Aristocratic about it, being some Imperial and all?
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Well, 'Herzog' means 'Duke' in German. :laugh:
(*) Edit: For an example of what I mean with an 'advanced German student of English', take Trixie of 'DontTrustTheRabbit' -> She doesn't make the typical phoneme-mistakes of a beginner, like the mispronounced 'th', the 'r' and 'w'. She's admirably fluent, grammar and vocabulary are fully integrated - make not mistake, I think she's really, really good. It's more in her cadence, rhythm and melody. Also a bit in the fricatives and sibilants, eg. when she says 'professional'.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezrFZ8zBzTE
(click to show/hide)Edit: I've just watched a German-language interview he gave a while ago, and now I'm wondering whether LeeC is right - no matter whether he speaks English or German, there's a 'Herzog-thing' in his speech that has nothing to do with his mother-tongue, and everything with the stunning intensity of a driven man. This weird combination of soft-spoken-ness and a passion bordering on fanaticism. And I'm not sure whether he's even consciously aware of doing his 'Herzog-thing' when he speaks. Fascinating guy, either way.
--- Quote from: Tova on 29 Nov 2020, 17:42 ---
--- Quote from: Case on 29 Nov 2020, 15:50 ---Hmmh. Still think like he sounds like he's holdiing in a wee.
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I now need to rewatch the episode with this mental image.
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This is the Way ...
Method of Madness:
Yeah, that's just how Werner Herzog sounds, to the point that I always recognize his voice before his face. It's not a thing he did for this character. He was even on Parks and Rec! Spoilers, it's a late episode, but yeah.
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