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Total Members Voted: 32

Voting closed: 27 May 2020, 09:32

[BenRG]

In which Faye's insecurities come rushing back. I don't want to guess the exact details but I do think that Bubbles's little dark moment in the previous strip has in some way reminded Faye of how fragile relationships can be and, maybe, impacted negatively on her sense of her and Bubbles being that special 'destined' pairing.

Faye has always struggled with fear of abandonment due to her father's suicide. Just as Bubbles has to struggle with the echoes of the chunk of her life that was lost forever, Faye also has to struggle with that horrible morning in her childhood back-yard.

So comics up....Really, really hope Faye isn't going to do anything stupid. Or let this fester and let it turn into an argument...

In some ways, she's already doing something stupid. An alcoholic suffering from emotional issues really shouldn't be allowed to be on their own when there are a lot of late-night dives open.

[Mordhaus]

Insecurity
When the feeling's gone and you can't go on
It's insecurity
When the morning cries and you don't know why
It's hard to bear
With no one to love you
You're goin' nowhere

Insecurity
When you lose control and you got no soul
It's insecurity
When the morning cries and you don't know why
It's hard to bear
With no one beside you
You're goin' nowhere

[Gyrre]

Are we done hypercritizing Faye, Claire, and the rest of the female cast members now?

Yes?

Good. Glad to hear it.

[Zebediah]

I’m afraid you’re probably being optimistic there. Extreme criticism of all the female characters is this forum’s worst vice.

We don’t really know yet what Faye is upset about, and until we do, I am reserving judgement.

[JoeCovenant]

... Getting bent out of shape about someone having a life before you is not something adults do.

All I'm going to say about this is...
You've been very lucky in your relationships.

[JoeCovenant]

Are we done hypercritizing Faye, Claire, and the rest of the female cast members now?

Yes?

Good. Glad to hear it.

Ooooo... come on dude, let's not make this something it's not.
(Getting into Star Wars TLJ territory there!)

On a slightly related note.
I could see the point if there were not so many female characters in QC.. but (to my mind) it's been a LONG time since the main focus of the strip was a male - I see the most interesting characters in the strip as BEING female, and (I could be wrong) aren't a HUGE majority of QCs main characters actually female?

By your statement above, it suggests to me that you believe *I* (for example) am 'attacking' Clair because she is trans.
OR because she is female.

Neither of which is true... I just don't like the character.
Should I be tarred as either a misogynist or anti-trans because of that?
(Genuine question)

[oddtail]

Are we done hypercritizing Faye, Claire, and the rest of the female cast members now?

Yes?

Good. Glad to hear it.

"hypercriticizing"? Would you please elaborate?

[Gus_Smedstad]

Okay, genuine question, because it didn't come across that way to me (I was just completely confused by what's just happened).

Did you conclude her action was stupid and immature because it came across as her being upset with Bubbles, or did you conclude she was being upset with Bubbles because you'd previously decided that she is stupid and immature?

Genuine question, huh?

How about, in the future, when responding to something I said, you respond to what I actually said, instead of creating a straw man that makes it appear I’m arguing in bad faith? Because the latter is damned rude.

[Tova]

Should I be tarred as either a misogynist or anti-trans because of that?
(Genuine question)

Genuinely -- no, I don't believe you are. You seem a decent guy. But your hyper-sensitivity on this topic does make me wonder what is going on.

There's no reason to assume Gyrre is accusing you specifically of being a misogynist, and no hint of Gyrre assuming anyone of being anti-trans.

Okay, genuine question, because it didn't come across that way to me (I was just completely confused by what's just happened).

Did you conclude her action was stupid and immature because it came across as her being upset with Bubbles, or did you conclude she was being upset with Bubbles because you'd previously decided that she is stupid and immature?

Genuine question, huh?

How about, in the future, when responding to something I said, you respond to what I actually said, instead of creating a straw man that makes it appear I’m arguing in bad faith? Because the latter is damned rude.

It didn't even enter my mind that you might have argued in bad faith. I was asking for some self-reflection. Dear FSM.

You know what's rude? Jumping to conclusions about people's intentions without at least asking.

For both of you.

Overgeneralising and Jumping to Conclusions: What It Is and How to Stop

[Tova]

Stay tuned for Tova's new book: How to Make Friends and Influence Forumites by Demanding Self-Reflection on the Internet 

Apparently, I can be diplomatic in person.

STOP JUDGING ME, FAYE

[Welu]

My hope for this is Faye is going home to make a nice surprise for Bubbles. I didn't pick up that either are annoyed, I think they're both concerned for each other. I kind of expected yesterday Bubbles would want to leave so I was surprised Faye is the one going.

[Gus_Smedstad]

All I'm going to say about this is...
You've been very lucky in your relationships.

I’ve never been in a relationship with someone being unreasonable about basic aspects of life, no. Is that luck? Or just not choosing to pursue relationships with people who behave that way? Over the years I had plenty of first dates with obvious red flags.

[Gus_Smedstad]

You know what's rude? Jumping to conclusions about people's intentions without at least asking

Which is precisely what you did. Perhaps you should consider some of that self-reflection you mentioned?

To spell it out, your “genuine question” projected your own opinions of what I was thinking on to me.

[TheEvilDog]

I'm going to be honest, my patience for this part of the forum has worn very thin over the years for a few reasons, but mainly for people throwing out comments or looking to start a fight.

Stop it.

You're (mostly) adults, start acting like it.

Now, back to the comic and the most likely reason why Faye is upset. Consider this - this isn't about Faye's relationship with Bubbles, this is about Faye's personal view of herself. Look at yesterday's comic when she said ""Hah! I never thought about datin' a robot or a lady 'afore I met Bubs."

You have this moment where Faye admits that her entire sexual identity has changed, and that maybe the real her had been allowed to flourish and grow thanks to Bubbles, heavily implying that its a true love. And immediately, Bubbles comments that due to her memory wipe, she can't remember if she was in a relationship before. And suddenly Faye is faced with a couple of prospects:
1 - The prospect that Bubbles was in a relationship before her and that everything about their relationship wasn't built on the truth (not a lie, Bubbles was almost in a state of tabula rasa, if she can't remember, she can't lie).
2 - The prospect of there could be at least one spectre amongst the ghosts of Bubble's past having loved her. Its a lost love situation. Sure, there's love for their current partner, but there's always that undercurrent that in their heart there's someone else. An ex is always easier to deal with, the dead not so much, as they become idealised. Even if Bubbles can't remember her past, to Faye there's suddenly this ghost looming over them, made worse by the fact that Bubbles can't remember them.
3 - The prospect that she isn't Bubbles' first and that Bubbles may have been the key for others in the past. Immediately that takes away some of the sheen from the relationship, perhaps tainting it in some way.

One second Faye's relationship with Bubbles is going great and literally a second later, Faye has gotten smacked in the face by a past that neither she nor Bubbles can achieve closure with. This is more than the realisation that Bubbles had a past, this is realising that Bubbles had a past with people, people she loved, people who may have meant more. And that is a lot to take in in a matter of seconds. Is Faye acting in an irrational manner? Yeah, but then again her entire world has just been upended, everything she was certain about with her relationship with Bubbles is now no longer certain. And previous experience has shown us that Faye can't handle sudden changes in a healthy manner, she acts out and as for what happens next, well, tomorrow is Friday, perfect day for a cliffhanger. That's all I'm saying.

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

Getting uncomfortable with the temperature here. Advice: often a good move to ask someone for clarification.

[stayctee]

There is no denying that Faye is acting weird and kind of dramatic, and could have been more sensitive in the way she left. But she obviously suddenly has a lot on her mind to process and maybe can't muster being cool/sweet. Which is why she's exiting the situation. That being said, she could have thrown in a "babe" or something just to make it clear she's not mad. Sheesh. But, she's a bonehead and that's why we she is beloved. I guess?

Sidenote: does anyone else think it's weird that we can see Bubbles' neck joint?

[sitnspin]

oh no, a sapient being is acting in a fallible manner, how horrible.

[Theta9]

... Getting bent out of shape about someone having a life before you is not something adults do.

Chasing Amy

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Just want to say Bubbles is looking great here, partly because of the way the colors mesh. I admire how Jeph picks colors for his characters.

[Is it cold in here?]

Sidenote: does anyone else think it's weird that we can see Bubbles' neck joint?

It may be some incredibly difficult engineering problem to hide a neck joint, or it could be Jeph's way to communicate that a character is a synthetic. Yes, it has struck me as weird that bodies as high-fidelity humanoid as we're seeing having visible neck seams.

Bubbles did identify this as a high risk relationship and Faye's baggage contributes a lot to the risk.

[sitnspin]

In my experience, all relationships are high risk.

[Autistic Vulture]

In some ways, she's already doing something stupid. An alcoholic suffering from emotional issues really shouldn't be allowed to be on their own when there are a lot of late-night dives open.

You're right.  Bubbles should contact Pintsize so he can tell her if Faye hasn't arrived at home in X minutes (and do nothing if she does so as to not arouse suspicion).

[Reaver]

I mean, I normally don't like Faye,  so it feels weird for me to say but...

I read this as Faye realizing that Bubbles is missing a lot about herself, and is possibly leaving to see if there's SOMETHING, ANYTHING she can do to try and help her...I don't think it's Faye being worried about ghosts in Bubbles's past...more like maybe just genuine concern for her partner that has a hole in their life???

[JoeCovenant]

All I'm going to say about this is...
You've been very lucky in your relationships.

I’ve never been in a relationship with someone being unreasonable about basic aspects of life, no. Is that luck? Or just not choosing to pursue relationships with people who behave that way? Over the years I had plenty of first dates with obvious red flags.

Yeah, it's luck. 

[JoeCovenant]

... Getting bent out of shape about someone having a life before you is not something adults do.

Chasing Amy

THANK you! 
(God I love that movie... for precisely the reasons we are discussing right here!   )
Love of my life, perfect relationship... and then someone mentioned one of my exes to her and that was it. No warnings, no hints, just suddenly medusa.)

[Wingy]

One second Faye's relationship with Bubbles is going great and literally a second later, Faye has gotten smacked in the face by a past that neither she nor Bubbles can achieve closure with. This is more than the realisation that Bubbles had a past, this is realising that Bubbles had a past with people, people she loved, people who may have meant more. And that is a lot to take in in a matter of seconds. Is Faye acting in an irrational manner? Yeah, but then again her entire world has just been upended, everything she was certain about with her relationship with Bubbles is now no longer certain. And previous experience has shown us that Faye can't handle sudden changes in a healthy manner, she acts out and as for what happens next, well, tomorrow is Friday, perfect day for a cliffhanger.

Emphasis mine. 

Yup, well writ.  Hopefully Faye just goes outside to process and doesn't relapse, but... 

Bubbles, in my view, should make sure Faye parks somewhere safe, then rejoin the party for 15 minutes or so, then quietly rejoin Faye without speaking until Faye decides what they are going to do next: go home, go drinking, rejoin the party, etc.

[JoeCovenant]

Should I be tarred as either a misogynist or anti-trans because of that?
(Genuine question)

Genuinely -- no, I don't believe you are. You seem a decent guy. But your hyper-sensitivity on this topic does make me wonder what is going on.

Well, I've not seen too much "hyper sensitivity" regarding Claire, apart from my comment saying that I don't like her. All the other have questioned her attitude to her Brother, but thats understandable...
But I just can't get on board with the character at all.. Never have...
(Edit.. no.. there was ONE strip I remember recently ish...)

And, yes, my dislike of her gives me a shiver of paranoia because I have a concern (reasonable considering "the Web") that my dislike could be viewed by a certain element of online communities, as Anti Trans... (or anti Female) because some people act (or react) that way for some reason. (Hence my other disclaimer about SW:TLJ)

Because, it is becoming more and more the norm within FICTION (let alone real life) to throw labels around, such as Misogynist and Anti-Trans, at people who DARE to discuss those characters (who may generally be seen as a 'put upon' group) in anything other than angelic tones.
(And in movies -  such criticisms lead to ridiculous perceptions that the actual actors themselves are being attacked... ignoring the fact that all that is being said is that their characters were crap and badly written/directed.
In a comic, there's no 3rd party... just the character, so any criticism has no 'buffer'.
At least, in my favour, I can say that I didn't like her before we even knew she 'was' trans... And, in fact, when we learned she was I thought.. "Awwwh feck!" For the same reasons above. I have deleted more un-posted posts than I can remember about my reaction to some Claire strips which I have deleted solely because I didn't want anyone to think I was criticising anything but the character.

There's no reason to assume Gyrre is accusing you specifically of being a misogynist, and no hint of Gyrre assuming anyone of being anti-trans.

See above

You know what's rude? Jumping to conclusions about people's intentions without at least asking.

To be fair (to me ) I *did* ask...  but your snip missed out the disclaimer...

"By your statement above, it suggests to me that you believe *I* (for example) am 'attacking' Clair because she is trans.
OR because she is female.
Neither of which is true... I just don't like the character.
Should I be tarred as either a misogynist or anti-trans because of that?
(Genuine question)"

PL&L 

[Is it cold in here?]

I mean, I normally don't like Faye,  so it feels weird for me to say but...

I read this as Faye realizing that Bubbles is missing a lot about herself, and is possibly leaving to see if there's SOMETHING, ANYTHING she can do to try and help her...I don't think it's Faye being worried about ghosts in Bubbles's past...more like maybe just genuine concern for her partner that has a hole in their life???

OK, but the natural way to be helpful would be to stay and offer a hug.

[thedevilissix]

I suppose my take on it is this.

I was initially really annoyed reading the last panel with Faye making that sarky “Sargeant or whatever” comment back at poor Bubbles who was obviously taken aback and worried, yet still trying to be reasonable and give the lady she loves the benefit of the doubt. That’s definitely a huge character development on Bubbles’ part to show her softer side from a position still of relative assertiveness and strength - in her armoured days (in more ways than one), Bubbles might’ve reacted very differently.

A lot of forum members here though have made really reasonable points about Faye’s history that have helped me think differently though - I wouldn’t necessarily excuse Faye’s behaviour still, but I certainly understand it better with her personal history context in mind, so I’m not as inclined to judge it harshly now.

I suppose at the end of the day this is part and parcel of reading a slice of life comic - you get to see people react in not terribly rational ways that are understandable given their personal history - just like in real life. Faye was obviously trying to minimise the effects of her reaction to Bubbles so as not to hurt her (whilst still creating some needed processing space to figure it out herself)...but sometimes in pressured situations the right things to say just don’t come to you and you may indeed end up making an arse of yourself. That’s life. And I’ve done well to remember that here, so thanks to Castlerook amongst others for the reminder. 

It will be interesting to see what comes in the strip tomorrow. And I have no doubt that a cliffhanger might indeed ensue.

[Theta9]

Chasing Amy

THANK you! 
(God I love that movie... for precisely the reasons we are discussing right here!   )
Love of my life, perfect relationship... and then someone mentioned one of my exes to her and that was it. No warnings, no hints, just suddenly medusa.)

Kevin Smith's best film by a long way. Based on his own relationship with Joey Lauren Adams (who played Alyssa).

[DaiJB]

New comic!
So, Faye was feeling a bit irrationally jealous - but she realised it straight away, good girl...

...And a supremely powerful AI is scared of Faye?? That's hilarious!

[TheEvilDog]

So it does seem like Faye's problem is realising that she might not be Bubbles' first partner.

And that's a huge thing to realise. You might not be their first kiss. Their first lover. Their first love. When a relationship like Faye and Bubbles is built up on the idea that everything is new to them, that spectre of Bubbles' past rocks everything at its foundations, at least, to Faye. In her eyes it might not mean as much to Bubbles as it does to her. Right now, Faye is dealing with a vast array of emotions at once. She's angry, she's scared, she's confused, she's jealous.

She's angry at herself for thinking like that. She's scared because of what that hitherto lost past might change her relationship. She's confused because its hitting her all at once. And she's jealous because she might lose her place in Bubbles' heart. Its all irrational of course, but people in love rarely are.

Course, this morning I looked it up and the US military frowns on fraternisation in its ranks, so it could just be that Bubbles' only relationships before Faye were simply squad camaraderie and friendships. And given how long it was since Bubbles has served and the suggestion that romantic AI/Human relationships are a very new thing, I'd imagine that nothing happened/   

[Zebediah]

Yeah, it’s irrational. I mean, Bubbles isn’t Faye’s first, is she? It’s crazy, once you’re an adult, to expect that someone else won’t have their own romantic history.

But at least Faye realizes that she’s being an idiot. That’s a good first step.

Meanwhile we have Spookybot shenanigans incoming.

[shanejayell]

I love Spooky trying to hide. *lol*

[sitnspin]

I love how people here are perfectly rational and never make less than perfect choices in emotionally fraught situations.

[TheEvilDog]

I love how people here are perfectly rational and never make less than perfect choices in emotionally fraught situations.

Funnily enough, the same people who are perfectly rational in every situation are the same ones who get especially worked up over the lives of fictional characters.

[Reaver]

Easy Faye, be nice to yourself..nothing just talking to Bubbles about won't fix <3

Also remember she's not your first either eh?

[Gyrre]

Are we done hypercritizing Faye, Claire, and the rest of the female cast members now?

Yes?

Good. Glad to hear it.

"hypercriticizing"? Would you please elaborate?

The forumites (as pointed out) have a tendency to go into harsh criticism spirals when it comes to Faye's, Dora's, and Claire's flaws. Often putting them under scrutiny for a page or more of the WCDT. Look at some of the ones with 5 or more pages for examples.

EDIT: For a more specific example, you just need to go back and read last week's when Claire is getting criticised for 1) getting high, and 2) standard sibling vitriole/"joshing" with Clinton.

[gprimr1]

Yeah, it’s irrational. I mean, Bubbles isn’t Faye’s first, is she? It’s crazy, once you’re an adult, to expect that someone else won’t have their own romantic history.

But at least Faye realizes that she’s being an idiot. That’s a good first step.

Meanwhile we have Spookybot shenanigans incoming.

I agree that generally speaking, as an adult in 2020, it's a bit unreasonable to expect another adult has no romantic history. It isn't impossible, but not as common.

That said, I can sort of understand if it's from the perspective of being her first girl.  The comic really didn't present any evidence that Faye or Bubbles were attracted to girls prior to their flirtation and relationship.

I do know adults who have a romantic history but not until later in life do they find out they are interested in girls (or boys if it's a boy) so it is possible that someone could be an adult and have their first same sex experience.

[sitnspin]

Friendly reminder: Not everything has to be discussed with your partner immediately. It's okay to take time to yourself to process what you are feeling and formulate the words you want to use first. In my opinion Faye did the right thing here. She removed herself from the situation that was causing her anxiety and didn't lash out at anyone.

[BenRG]

Welcome to being human, Faye. None of it always makes sense and sometimes you have to struggle with bits of your mental or anatomical make-up that really don't want to cooperate with you being happy or, sometimes, entirely sane. Still, she seems to have an handle on it. I've got the feeling that there will be a hard and tearful hug in her future.

Meanwhile, I find myself wondering why Roko and Yay were wandering the streets at night. Could it be that Jeph wants to exercise the Spooky Ex Machina? Or, rather to motivate Faye to find her own solutions by having Yay explain why they can't be that for her?

...And a supremely powerful AI is scared of Faye?? That's hilarious!

Not scared; rather, I think, embarrassed to run into someone they were quite mean to before they knew them properly. It says a lot of how far Yay has come, socially, that they realise that they may have been quite unnecessarily objectionable to many people, Faye in particular, in this instance.

I still can't get my brain around Jeph being an Animal Crossing fan...

[Mr Intrepid]

Take a look at panel 2.  Roko is faced away from Faye,  and he arm is raised a bit.  Could Roko and Yay have been having a little tete-a-tete there on the street for privacy sake?

[Cornelius]

Personally, I think Yay had been listening in, and just wants to try and avoid being drawn into trying to help more. It's not inconceivable they could reconstruct some idea of wheat happened in Bubbles' missing time.

[oddtail]

Are we done hypercritizing Faye, Claire, and the rest of the female cast members now?

Yes?

Good. Glad to hear it.

"hypercriticizing"? Would you please elaborate?

The forumites (as pointed out) have a tendency to go into harsh criticism spirals when it comes to Faye's, Dora's, and Claire's flaws. Often putting them under scrutiny for a page or more of the WCDT. Look at some of the ones with 5 or more pages for examples.

EDIT: For a more specific example, you just need to go back and read last week's when Claire is getting criticised for 1) getting high, and 2) standard sibling vitriole/"joshing" with Clinton.

I don't see the criticism as excessive, even though I don't fully agree with it. And I certainly don't see the criticism as gender-motivated in these cases. But thank you for your answer.

[JoeCovenant]

Easy Faye, be nice to yourself..nothing just talking to Bubbles about won't fix <3

Also remember she's not your first either eh?

Point of Order?
She IS Faye's first.
Her 1st AI relationship.
And (AFAIK) her 1st Female relationship.

Faye is 'suffering' from "She's my first .. I thought I was hers".
An irrational, but very human, reaction.
(Better... she is aware that it is irrational!)

[Mr_Rose]

I don't see the criticism as excessive, even though I don't fully agree with it. And I certainly don't see the criticism as gender-motivated in these cases. But thank you for your answer.

Context is important; as I understand it, some people believe that some other people’s criticism of certain characters is, if not directly excessive, certainly disproportionate when compared to the balance of the cast exhibiting similar behaviours. Whether this is statistically true or not remains to be answered.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

Meanwhile, I find myself wondering why Roko and Yay were wandering the streets at night.

Another mealworm run, of course.
(and it's awesome that you can get mealworms in Northampton at 4 am)

[Zebediah]

Meanwhile, I find myself wondering why Roko and Yay were wandering the streets at night.

Another mealworm run, of course.
(and it's awesome that you can get mealworms in Northampton at 4 am)

Yay: “Where are we going to find mealworms at this time of night?”

Roko: “I know a guy. He deals mealworms from the trunk of his car in the parking lot behind Thorne’s. O’Malley has been trying to bust him for years, but we never could figure out exactly what law he was breaking.”

[dutchrvl]

Easy Faye, be nice to yourself..nothing just talking to Bubbles about won't fix <3

Also remember she's not your first either eh?

Point of Order?
She IS Faye's first.
Her 1st AI relationship.
And (AFAIK) her 1st Female relationship.

Faye is 'suffering' from "She's my first .. I thought I was hers".
An irrational, but very human, reaction.
(Better... she is aware that it is irrational!)

I think this is very close to what is going on here. Faye may feel uncertain as to whether her current feelings are 'simple' jealousy when finding out your partner may have had other/more prior partners than you thought, or whether her current feelings are an indication that she may have only been open to the relationship with Bubbles because of its fairytale aspects of 'first one for each other' and 'meant to be' uniqueness. The sudden realization that your current relationship is possibly 'just' a next one in a line for your partner instead of her deliberately having chosen you as 'the one' can be unsettling, if hopefully only briefly.

It's worth considering whether Faye has ever really thought about her current relationship and future and how it relates to her and Bubbles' own histories in more detail, and this may be the trigger to do so.

FWIW, I think she will come to realize that her love for Bubbles and their relationship is entirely sincere and exactly what she wants.

[Reaver]

Easy Faye, be nice to yourself..nothing just talking to Bubbles about won't fix <3

Also remember she's not your first either eh?

Point of Order?
She IS Faye's first.
Her 1st AI relationship.
And (AFAIK) her 1st Female relationship.

Faye is 'suffering' from "She's my first .. I thought I was hers".
An irrational, but very human, reaction.
(Better... she is aware that it is irrational!)

She's not HER first relationship though,  and so far we don't know if she's irrationally upset about being Bubble's first relationship, or first organic human meat relationship.

But I am proud of Faye for realizing "Crap I'm being irrational" Old Faye woulda stormed off and threatened to punch Marten in the gut or something, Bubbles really IS good for her.