Comic Discussion > QUESTIONABLE CONTENT
WCDT 4116-4120 (14th to 18th Dec, 2020)
Farideh:
--- Quote from: Case on 17 Dec 2020, 15:47 ---
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 17 Dec 2020, 15:15 ---<smip>
Vile, yes. But I have actually met them.
They're misogynistic turds who usually still have the maturity of a 13 to 16 year-old.
--- End quote ---
You and pretty much any het-cis bepenised person. The problem is that as long as it's being trodden out as 'just the way men are', it's both hugely damaging to us (men) - the first people poisoned by toxic masculinity is ourselves - as well as the victims of those slimy asshats.
(click to show/hide)If you're interested: I read some research a while back how serial male predators will check out their male friends' attitudes and 'tolerance thresholds' with the kind of just-a-joke jokes that aren't really jokes for them (No guarantee the bookmark survived my latest 'oopsies' with the bookmarks folder, though). The point is to see who of them - of Us! - can be groomed so they'll be ready to defend the perdator when a survivor accuses them. 'They' really do that shit, it's really strategic and planned. And they can do that crap - turning us into accomplices, into instruments of their sick shite - right in front of our f**kin noses because ... well, we do tell each other lots of crappy jokes, don't we? Easy to hide the not-at-all-funny ones among the 'Yeah, not really for public consumption'-stuff that generations of men have known since kindergarten.
Really scared the crap out of me: I have met such guys, and even considered one of them sort of a friend. He was our clan-leader back in the CS days, and we both studied at the same Uni. One day, we had a female guest/proby-for-membership visit us on a big public Lan in Leipzig - I guess we were all a bit sheepish bcs of the sudden rush to the showers once word got round she'd come (early oughts ...).
At some point, we sat in a circle with her sitting beside my 'kinda-friend' ... and suddenly she jumps and squirms a bit (I did find it hard not to shoot the occasional glance her way, granted ...). Afterwards, she came over and told me he'd reached into her pants from behind while sitting next to her. I ... didn't know what to say. Didn't even know there were people who'd do something like that - it was so bizarre, so alien to me. We were all sitting right there, it was broad daylight, no visual cover whatsoever - and this bastard makes a calculated bet that she wouldn't make a scene, and that if she did, we'd be hesitant to believe her. Or too confused. Right in front of our goddamn blind eyes!
And he'd gotten it all worked out perfectly correct - had worked us out just fine - and had played us like the string section in his very own orchestra. We trusted this guy - and he knew, and it gave him the mother of all kicks to see what he could do right in front of us.
I gave him a lift home. At some point, he made a 'joke' out of grabbing my right knee, and pushing it down, so that the car accelerated for a second. That was the moment I understood - for this guy, other peoples' boundaries are interesting things meant to be worked out, and worked around.
I didn't work all of that out instantly - I even was a guest at his wedding. It's reallyreally hard to revise your mental model of someone once it's settled in - especially of people you like. But ... I've been around a couple of people who got me to ask myself what this mental model is really based on. How much of it is really just the equivalent of snapshots, and how much our brain fills in from it's 'standard assumptions about human behaviour'-folder. And how difficult it is to tell one from the other.
And that is why those "little things that don't really mean much, c'mon" - all the 'boys will be boys' and 'women use tears as a weapon' and all the other shit you and I and every other guy since time immemorial have heard and laughed along with, and told yourself it's OK, because you don't really believe it, you're just being polite - why that shit is actually really a lot more important that you and I and all the other dick-bearers tend to give it credit for. That it can be turned into a weapon. That it can be used to turn us into instruments against our own wills or convictions.
--- End quote ---
That is... terrifying, frankly.
Gyrre:
--- Quote from: Case on 17 Dec 2020, 15:47 ---
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 17 Dec 2020, 15:15 ---<smip>
Vile, yes. But I have actually met them.
They're misogynistic turds who usually still have the maturity of a 13 to 16 year-old.
--- End quote ---
You and pretty much any het-cis bepenised person. The problem is that as long as it's being trodden out as 'just the way men are', it's both hugely damaging to us (men) - the first people poisoned by toxic masculinity is ourselves - as well as the victims of those slimy asshats.
(click to show/hide)If you're interested: I read some research a while back how serial male predators will check out their male friends' attitudes and 'tolerance thresholds' with the kind of just-a-joke jokes that aren't really jokes for them (No guarantee the bookmark survived my latest 'oopsies' with the bookmarks folder, though). The point is to see who of them - of Us! - can be groomed so they'll be ready to defend the perdator when a survivor accuses them. 'They' really do that shit, it's really strategic and planned. And they can do that crap - turning us into accomplices, into instruments of their sick shite - right in front of our f**kin noses because ... well, we do tell each other lots of crappy jokes, don't we? Easy to hide the not-at-all-funny ones among the 'Yeah, not really for public consumption'-stuff that generations of men have known since kindergarten.
Really scared the crap out of me: I have met such guys, and even considered one of them sort of a friend. He was our clan-leader back in the CS days, and we both studied at the same Uni. One day, we had a female guest/proby-for-membership visit us on a big public Lan in Leipzig - I guess we were all a bit sheepish bcs of the sudden rush to the showers once word got round she'd come (early oughts ...).
At some point, we sat in a circle with her sitting beside my 'kinda-friend' ... and suddenly she jumps and squirms a bit (I did find it hard not to shoot the occasional glance her way, granted ...). Afterwards, she came over and told me he'd reached into her pants from behind while sitting next to her. I ... didn't know what to say. Didn't even know there were people who'd do something like that - it was so bizarre, so alien to me. We were all sitting right there, it was broad daylight, no visual cover whatsoever - and this bastard makes a calculated bet that she wouldn't make a scene, and that if she did, we'd be hesitant to believe her. Or too confused. Right in front of our goddamn blind eyes!
And he'd gotten it all worked out perfectly correct - had worked us out just fine - and had played us like the string section in his very own orchestra. We trusted this guy - and he knew, and it gave him the mother of all kicks to see what he could do right in front of us.
I gave him a lift home. At some point, he made a 'joke' out of grabbing my right knee, and pushing it down, so that the car accelerated for a second. That was the moment I understood - for this guy, other peoples' boundaries are interesting things meant to be worked out, and worked around.
I didn't work all of that out instantly - I even was a guest at his wedding. It's reallyreally hard to revise your mental model of someone once it's settled in - especially of people you like. But ... I've been around a couple of people who got me to ask myself what this mental model is really based on. How much of it is really just the equivalent of snapshots, and how much our brain fills in from it's 'standard assumptions about human behaviour'-folder. And how difficult it is to tell one from the other.
And that is why those "little things that don't really mean much, c'mon" - all the 'boys will be boys' and 'women use tears as a weapon' and all the other shit you and I and every other guy since time immemorial have heard and laughed along with, and told yourself it's OK, because you don't really believe it, you're just being polite - why that shit is actually really a lot more important that you and I and all the other dick-bearers tend to give it credit for. That it can be turned into a weapon. That it can be used to turn us into instruments against our own wills or convictions.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, not certain if that's meant to be accusatory towards me directly or echo chamber affected speech.
As for the 'jokes', I'm quite aware. It's why I try to shut that sort of thing down immediately. I refuse to let someone try to drag me into that sort of thing.
TieDyeKat:
--- Quote from: Farideh on 16 Dec 2020, 00:25 ---Whaddya know, that does look like Joyce's hair.
--- End quote ---
This is exactly what I came here to post.
When I saw it, it took me out of the strip for a moment.
Farideh:
New comic.
My, who is that dark haired gentleman in the library? He looks familiar...
Case:
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 17 Dec 2020, 17:44 ---<snip>
Sorry, not certain if that's meant to be accusatory towards me directly or echo chamber affected speech.
--- End quote ---
Accusatory? Certainly not! More like 'riffing on your post'? My starting point was the thought that the societal expectation for men to be awful can also sometimes prove a godsent for really awful men, and my feeling that we - men in general - should generally be more aware of that and more thoughtful of how society shapes our thinking and can sometimes limit our ability to 'see' the things we look at.
That was about the only tangential connection with your good person, or the post you made - I don't really feel I 'know' your well enough to 'critisize' your attitudes, and the point is also somewhat subtle, IMO.
I didn't even think of drawing a line between you and my 'not-friend from 15 years ago', if that is your worry? -> I'm sorry if I caused you distress and am happy to affirm that 'Nope, I didn't mean to imply that Gyrre is like Mr.Asshole Pantsgrabbing Gaslighter'.
--- Quote from: Gyrre on 17 Dec 2020, 17:44 ---As for the 'jokes', I'm quite aware. It's why I try to shut that sort of thing down immediately. I refuse to let someone try to drag me into that sort of thing.
--- End quote ---
Then you're a lot more aware than I was for ... far too long a time, I have to admit to my shame.
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