Fun Stuff > BAND
explaining straightedge
KharBevNor:
Dude, that's why you're supposed to put it in the fridge...
24_hour_revenge_therapy:
--- Quote ---When I say the things I hear about SLC scare me shitless, I mean the stories one hears of someone who's passing through and makes the mistake of asking an sxe kid for a light and ends up getting beaten with tire chains. People have died in sxe related incidents around that way.
Why the unwillingness to discuss veganism openly? It would probably be simpler than lots of individual discussions.
For the record, I dislike veganism because it clashes with my personal belief system. I'm basically a non-practicing Pagan, and as such if I believe in anything it is the cycles and hierarchies of nature (good old mother earth). Feel your teeth: Those sharp incisors weren't made for chewing particularly tough Soy beans. Look at you stomach: those Protease enzymes aren't there to digest grass. Our bodies are designed to eat meat: to do otherwise is a denial of nature. This does not mean I'm a whole-hearted supporter of animal cruelty. Factory farming and a lot of slaughterhouse (and especially fur farming) methods are simply as un-natural, in my view. However, whilst this animal cruelty is tragic, I generally overlook it (Though I don't condone it. My family's cupboards are stocked with Free Range and Organic produce, and I don't think I've ever eaten anything from Spain as a protest against bull-fighting. These values have come down to me.) However, I believe it is wrong to concentrate on cruelty to animals when there is so much cruelty to humans. When all my fellow men and women are free from hunger, disease, war, oppression and intolerance, then I will start serious work on ending un-necessary animal cruelty. Until then, it is in my mind a sideline issue: victories against factory farmers, whalers or fox hunters to be taken wherever they can, but never lose sight of the humans dying needlessly every minute. No matter what your philosophies, animals cannot be equal to humans: the kinship one should feel for the other members of one's own species, the shared bond of common humanity, must come first, if we truly want to build a better society
--- End quote ---
that was excellantly said.
first off, yeah, slc has some shitty people, and the way they act should NOT influence how you feel about sxe. were NOTHING like that. but, yeah, i could see how that would upset you.
as for veganism, well, ok, here goes. i didn't want to get into this, because if the reaction to me as a sxe kid is an example, i was afraid that starting a vegan discussion would REALLY light shit up. but, ok.
i understand where your coming from. i even agree with you on most of your points. human rights are JUST as important as animal rights. but not more so. i believe they are equal. i hold animals and people on equal footing. i do understand the argument of natural progression. in fact, i've met and had a healthy respect for several people who live out in the woods, and hunt/fish their food. i have no problem with that. i have a problem with the factory farming and slaughterhouse industry. my refusal to eat ANY animal product is a protest of that entire industry. i refuse to support ANY meat/dairy farming until these horrific practices are stopped. yes, that does go against the natural order of things, i know. but i'm doing it because i can't stand to watch these things happen. just like i protest the imprisonment of leanord peltier or i protest the tienanmen square massacre, or i protest any other violation of human rights. i'm willing to rail against those countries, to boycott goods and to put my all for the ending of suffering against a human being. why wouldn't i do the same for an animal? they have just as much right to live happy, healthy, cruelty-free lives as we do. i believe that we can help BOTH humans and animals. i believe that we can end the massacre and torture. on BOTH sides.
but, again, just like when it comes to sxe, it's all a choice. you seem to have found a good way to balance out your life, to create a place where you feel all your beliefs are well maintained. i've done the same. my ways are different from yours, but both are perfectly respectable.
KharBevNor:
Ay. As I probably didn't put across properly, the core of my beliefs are built on values that border on the religious. They're also built on issues of pragmatism. In an ideal world, I would really love to live by hunting, farming w/e off my own land. That's what people are supposed to do, deep down. The problem is, there are simply too many humans alive to do this. Because of the value I place on human life (that of utterly limitless value except weighed against other human lives) I can't simply say 'cull the human race'. We have to live in the best way we can in this world. From what I understand, theoretically speaking, it would be impossible for the entire human race to suddenly live as vegans: we could never support ourselves. We've essentially bricked ourselves into a corner, and now to make any progress, imo, we must concentrate all our energies on one thing at a time. Global idealism is admirable, but too undirected, imo anyway.
Argument's circular anyway. Agree to disagree and all that. As you said: Both sets of ideals are perfectly respectable and we seem both quite set in them.
japaneasy:
Yeah okay I kinda came across as a dick in my last post. Sorry, I'm really not that much of an ass, I swear. I can see both sides of the equation, but, like Khar, I believe there are things that come before setting all the animals free.
Therefore, I am working on an invention called the UFD: Universal Food
Dispenser. In goes some stuff, nanotechnology voodoo hex magic happens, food pops out. It will be able to make even the funkiest polenta patty taste like real beef!
Khar: Refrigerator? DOH! That's what I've been getting wrong all these years!
24_hour_revenge_therapy:
nah, i didn't think you were an asshole at all. just watched too many dennis leary stand-up routines. ;)
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