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[boeuf]

*Is currently rocking out hard to them*

I know I make posts like this a lot, but I feel this band deserves to be discussed.

Better than Refused?
Vice Versa?
YOU tell ME!

Me, I love them so so so so much. I've been listening to them nonstop for about a week now.

[a pack of wolves]

Better than Refused? Hell no. They are quite fun, but I must admit that I usually just play the Make-Up or The Robocop Kraus' first album when I want this kind of stuff. Refused had the originality, and the music to go with the lyrics. They really did sound like new noise.

For post-Refused bands, I'd say Text were probably the best, even if the one album I have by them is pretty patchy.

[boeuf]

Well, I say better than refused because  T(I)NC are more or less the offspring of Refused,

[a pack of wolves]

Not really, it's only Denis Lyxzen in them who's ex-Refused and they're in a very different style. Musically Refused were very progressive whereas T(I)NC are very retro. Text was closer to being an offspring of Refused since it was attempting some of the same things, to push hardcore in other new ways, but to my mind much less successfully.

And not every band that comes after is an improvement. French Toast are ex-Make-Up and Nation of Ulysses (in the form of James Canty), but nowhere near as good as those bands and actually fairly weak.

[Freezey]

I enjoy them both about the same. I tend to listen to T(I)NC a little more though.

[blindsuperhero]

I get the feeling they played support the last time I saw Bad Religion. As far as I can remember, everyone hated them.

[Azathoth]

Refused had the originality...

Have you listened to Nation of Ulysses?  Every Dennis Lyxzen band is pretty much has it's origin in a facet of Nation of Ulysses' sound.  Check em out -  Brendan Canty's (Fugazi, Rites of Spring) brother is in the band.

mp3: http://www.southern.com/southern/band/ULYSS/17971_audio.html

I do like Refused better.  T(I)NC never had a record as solid as the shape of punk to come.

T(I)NC are on a major label now. For someone who prints anti-capitalist manifestos on his liner notes that seems kinda hypocritical.  Not only are Nation of Ulysses on Dischord, an independent among independent record labels, but they at least tend to be tongue in cheek their 20+ page CD booklets lambasting capitalism and consumerism (yeah, Lyxzen got that from them too).

[a pack of wolves]

That would be James Canty who's now in French Toast, he was their drummer. He was in the Make-Up too, who T(I)NC are massively indebted to, I'd say far more so to them than Nation of Ulysses.

I'm not denying Refused took inspiration from the Nation (and no bad thing, they were an amazing band), but no art's totally original. I still say Refused pushed things in a new direction with The Shape of Punk To Come. And although T(I)NC are on a major, The Shape... was first released on the then independent Swedish label Burning Heart. What happened afterwards I don't feel detracts from it.

[ebullientsoul]

*Is currently rocking out hard to them*

I know I make posts like this a lot, but I feel this band deserves to be discussed.

Better than Refused?
Vice Versa?
YOU tell ME!

Me, I love them so so so so much. I've been listening to them nonstop for about a week now.

In my mind, Refused blows (I)NC out of the water. But hey, that's just my headspace.

To me, the real question is, Lost Patrol or (I)NC?

[zekterellium]

refused > international noise conspiracy

lost patrol > international noise conspiracy

refused > lost patrol

or so i see it.

[boeuf]

I dont mind Refused, but I definetaly dig TINC better, I like music I can dance to, and they do a wicked job of bringing home the bacon...

and I was so sick of the song New Noise...

I know thats not their only song, but its the only one you ever friggin' here by them.

[a pack of wolves]

Yeah, I've gotten a bit burnt out on that track too. It's the same with Converge's The Saddest Day, I've just heard it once too often now. There's plenty of other Refused songs you can dance to, and I do have some fond memories of touching base to New Noise at Juvenile Hall (a club that plays a lot of hardcore and punk) back in the day.