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salada

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« on: 17 Jun 2005, 01:33 »

so a friend of mine lent me his nintendo DS the other day. i haven't really paid any attention to handheld consoles for about 10 years. i was playing it (maio 64 or something) and i was like holy crap this thing is awesome!!!

so now i'm pretty set on buying some sort of whiz-bang handheld console thing. trouble is, since i havent really been paing attention to it all, i've got no idea which one (nintendo, or psp, or are there other ones too?) would be the better deal.

any ideas?
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Johnny C

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« Reply #1 on: 17 Jun 2005, 10:31 »

DS = sex in handheld, electronic equipment form.
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« Reply #2 on: 17 Jun 2005, 10:43 »

Well my friend you came to the right forum.  DS costs $150 while PSP costs $250.  It's pretty much based on money.  If you want innovation go with the DS.  If you want great graphics go with the PSP.  I am probably missing something but somebody else could probably add on.
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Sideways

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« Reply #3 on: 17 Jun 2005, 10:56 »

DS:

-Neat touch-screen
-Decent graphics (slightly updated 8-year-old graphics)
-Decent library (it started out poorly, but is getting better)
-Good value (humane price)
-Wireless internet capabilities.

PSP:

-Huge, highly detailed screen.
-Graphics that rival the PS2.
-Decent library (started out strong, and has kinda slowed down)
-High price tag
-Portable Media device (Movies, TV shows, Music, etc)
-Wireless internet connectivity
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happybirthdaygelatin

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« Reply #4 on: 17 Jun 2005, 12:12 »

I love the DS but if I was a more well off humanoid I'd purchase the PSP as well.  Yeah, the cheaper price of the DS was a pretty big deciding factor for me though.
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« Reply #5 on: 17 Jun 2005, 12:17 »

I have a DS and like it a lot; the games are sparse so far, but what's there is fun and I'm excited about a lot of the upcoming titles.
I might buy a PSP in the future, but I haven't seen any games for it that interest me in the slightest.  That's a bit of a prerequisite.
[Edit: actually, I just saw the trailer for Mercury, which does look pretty cool.]
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #6 on: 17 Jun 2005, 15:34 »

The PSP had some good launch titles(Lumines, Mercury), but there hasn't been much since.

In fact, the next big PSP game, as far as I can tell, is Burnout Legends in September.

The DS is picking up a lot of steam post-E3 and lots of games are just on the horizon for it...
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Johnny C

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« Reply #7 on: 17 Jun 2005, 15:54 »

Quote from: Sideways
-Portable Media device (Movies, TV shows, Music, etc)

What everyone seems to neglect about this part of the PSP is how crappy these features are.
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Signum_Tenebrae

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« Reply #8 on: 17 Jun 2005, 16:23 »

The PSP seems kind of worthless to me..  every game that can come out for the PSP can also come out for PS2.

I like the DS better because it has the extra touch screen feature.  Therefore, DS games will only be on the DS.
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« Reply #9 on: 17 Jun 2005, 16:27 »

Quote from: Signum_Tenebrae
Therefore, DS games will only be on the DS.

That's not really true because a lot of third party companies have games on the DS
Unfortunately some don't even use the touch screen like they should.
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Mikintosh

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« Reply #10 on: 17 Jun 2005, 17:07 »

Quote from: Johnny C
Quote from: Sideways
-Portable Media device (Movies, TV shows, Music, etc)

What everyone seems to neglect about this part of the PSP is how crappy these features are.


I concur; as pointed out in a review, who the hell wants to spend 2 hours watching a movie on a tiny screen? Not to mention the high price tag for the privelege of doing do. The only PSP game I have the slightest interest in is Darkslayers, but Marvel vs. Capcom 2 on my good ol' Dreamcast substitutes just dandy.
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will: wanton sex god

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« Reply #11 on: 18 Jun 2005, 14:25 »

honestly you should probably read up somewhere else, but id make the decision in about 6 months, compare prices then, who knows, psp might get agressive in pricing.
in addition, ds will have a better library (as well the psp) allowing somewhat better comparison
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« Reply #12 on: 18 Jun 2005, 20:02 »

I vote the DS, but I'm a slight Nintendophyle. (Otherwise known as a Nintendo whore)

I just don't think sony knows how to make handheld games, and I wouldn't touch my PS2 if every good RPG wasn't for it. And Prince of Persia, I have that one too.
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salada

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« Reply #13 on: 19 Jun 2005, 18:36 »

thanks for the tips everyone.

on conducting some further research (i.e. bugging nerdy friends about it), i have come up with the following:

- PSPs aren't actually out in australia yet. i swear japan had them about a year ago, dammit. currently only available here from importers for AUD$350-400(!!!)

- one of my friends thinks nintendo is going to go down the gurgler soom, due to lack of support from many 3rd party developers. this claim is rebutted by other nerdy friend who says nintendo are quite well off financially, and their games always sell a jillion copies anyway, so it won't be a problem.

- battery life in the PSP is apparently only 2-3 hours per charge atm. also, they take their own non-proprietary format for optical media, so i can't burn movies/music onto little 8cm DVDs. the other option. memorystick duos, are apparently quite expensive atm.

- there will most likely be a GTA for PSP (this makes it a very tempting option...).


leaning towards the DS at the moment - cheaper, graphics are still ok (never really been a graphics fiend anyway, not really a serious gamer), don't really want to watch movies on a tiny screen (powerbook's a much better option), and it's actually available to buy here, now. (i just hope developers use the stylus control in intelligent ways / at all - i have this fear that they won't though).
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Johnny C

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« Reply #14 on: 19 Jun 2005, 19:10 »

Nintendo are carried so much by their own games, but I mean, put up your hands if you see a problem with that.
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MFD

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« Reply #15 on: 19 Jun 2005, 19:46 »

Yes.  Nintendo is going down the crapper.  Absolutely.  I mean, it has no third party support.  None at all.  Games like Prince of Persia, by Ubisoft, or Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, by Konami, do not exist on the Nintendo Gamecube.  Third parties do not make games for the Gameboy Advance.  Any that you see are just figments of your imagination.

Oh, man.  I just exceeded my sarcasm limit for today.

I wonder why I never hear people arguing that Sony's video game department is going to kersplode.  I mean, Sony has little to no first/second party support.

Anyways, I say buy the DS.  Three games to bide time until more come out: Super Mario64DS (now free with the system!), WarioWare: Touched, and Kirby Canvas Curse.
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Inanimate Object

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« Reply #16 on: 19 Jun 2005, 20:14 »

Quote from: salada
thanks for the tips everyone.

on conducting some further research (i.e. bugging nerdy friends about it), i have come up with the following:

- PSPs aren't actually out in australia yet. i swear japan had them about a year ago, dammit. currently only available here from importers for AUD$350-400(!!!)

- one of my friends thinks nintendo is going to go down the gurgler soom, due to lack of support from many 3rd party developers. this claim is rebutted by other nerdy friend who says nintendo are quite well off financially, and their games always sell a jillion copies anyway, so it won't be a problem.

- battery life in the PSP is apparently only 2-3 hours per charge atm. also, they take their own non-proprietary format for optical media, so i can't burn movies/music onto little 8cm DVDs. the other option. memorystick duos, are apparently quite expensive atm.

- there will most likely be a GTA for PSP (this makes it a very tempting option...).


leaning towards the DS at the moment - cheaper, graphics are still ok (never really been a graphics fiend anyway, not really a serious gamer), don't really want to watch movies on a tiny screen (powerbook's a much better option), and it's actually available to buy here, now. (i just hope developers use the stylus control in intelligent ways / at all - i have this fear that they won't though).


I'm not sure when PSP comes out in Australia, but it's worth the wait.

Battery life is a lot more than 2-3 hours. It's listed as 3-5 on movies and 4-6 on games. I've never dropped below 2 bars on the meter (2/3 charge) and I've played for a couple hours straight before. It also charges pretty fast. About 2 hours for a full charge. You gotta ask yourself the question "When am I going to be away from my adapter for 4 hours. You can play while charging too, so that's not a concern.

Also, UMDs can't be burned, but you can play MP4 files from a memory stick. A feature lenth movie will encode anywhere from 200-300 megabytes, so a 512 stick is fine. You can find on around for $50-$60. Note that NDS doesn't play audio or video at all.

GTA is announced for PSP. It's called "Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories". Check around the major gaming sites to see info about it. I think there are some screen shots released too.

Sorry if I sound a little enthusiastic, but I really like my PSP. Be sure to check out www.psptown.com for more info. </shameless plug>
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Symp

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« Reply #17 on: 19 Jun 2005, 20:42 »

Quote from: Inanimate Object
Note that NDS doesn't play audio or video at all.

Absolute BS
1. You can buy some cartoons in cart format for the gba, which will also play on the DS
2. http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=6&products_id=6239&

Also the DS can play the entire gba library, so that should factor in to a buying decision, especially if you dont already have a gba
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #18 on: 19 Jun 2005, 22:50 »

Quote from: MFD
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, by Konami,


Not to hate or anything(I love the N) but, Twin Snakes was made by Silicon Knights, who was a Nintendo second-party at the time(they've since moved on)
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Inanimate Object

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« Reply #19 on: 20 Jun 2005, 07:05 »

Quote from: Symp
Quote from: Inanimate Object
Note that NDS doesn't play audio or video at all.

Absolute BS
1. You can buy some cartoons in cart format for the gba, which will also play on the DS
2. http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=6&products_id=6239&

Also the DS can play the entire gba library, so that should factor in to a buying decision, especially if you dont already have a gba


1. I forgot about the cartoons they have for GBA, but those are mostly Cartoon Network kids stuff. Great if that's your thing, but otherwise pretty unappealing.

2. The Play-Yan is not available in the USA yet. You have to import it. It's quite expensive to do so, and all the software is in Japanese. You also have to buy an SD card before you can do anything. PSP comes with everything you need (except a USB cable) out of the box.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #20 on: 20 Jun 2005, 08:31 »

^ Everything but a USB cable and big enough memory card.
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Inanimate Object

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« Reply #21 on: 20 Jun 2005, 08:51 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
^ Everything but a USB cable and big enough memory card.


True, but consider this:

Many people already have a USB cable. I had one from my digital camera. Any standard Mini-USB to Large USB cable will work.

For the import price on a Play-Yan (link above) you can get a 1GB memory stick. That's enough to hold two or three full length movies. If you get a Play-Yan, you still have to buy an SD card. If you don't have that much to spend, there are cheaper alternatives too. 256MB sticks run about $30, and I've seen 512s for $50. It also depends on how much video you want to store. I can store about 10 minutes of good quality video on the 32MB stick that came with the PSP.
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Symp

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« Reply #22 on: 20 Jun 2005, 08:55 »

Quote from: Inanimate Object
Quote from: Symp
Quote from: Inanimate Object
Note that NDS doesn't play audio or video at all.

Absolute BS
1. You can buy some cartoons in cart format for the gba, which will also play on the DS
2. http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=6&products_id=6239&

Also the DS can play the entire gba library, so that should factor in to a buying decision, especially if you dont already have a gba


1. I forgot about the cartoons they have for GBA, but those are mostly Cartoon Network kids stuff. Great if that's your thing, but otherwise pretty unappealing.

2. The Play-Yan is not available in the USA yet. You have to import it. It's quite expensive to do so, and all the software is in Japanese. You also have to buy an SD card before you can do anything. PSP comes with everything you need (except a USB cable) out of the box.


The Play-Yan is not really that expensive, only $79.90 and probably a little bit more for the overseas shipping so........

NDS + Play-yan + Large SD card = Less than the price of a PSP with a large duo card
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Inanimate Object

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« Reply #23 on: 20 Jun 2005, 09:36 »

Quote from: Symp
Quote from: Inanimate Object
Quote from: Symp
Quote from: Inanimate Object
Note that NDS doesn't play audio or video at all.

Absolute BS
1. You can buy some cartoons in cart format for the gba, which will also play on the DS
2. http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=6&products_id=6239&

Also the DS can play the entire gba library, so that should factor in to a buying decision, especially if you dont already have a gba


1. I forgot about the cartoons they have for GBA, but those are mostly Cartoon Network kids stuff. Great if that's your thing, but otherwise pretty unappealing.

2. The Play-Yan is not available in the USA yet. You have to import it. It's quite expensive to do so, and all the software is in Japanese. You also have to buy an SD card before you can do anything. PSP comes with everything you need (except a USB cable) out of the box.


The Play-Yan is not really that expensive, only $79.90 and probably a little bit more for the overseas shipping so........

NDS + Play-yan + Large SD card = Less than the price of a PSP with a large duo card


Price comparison (I rounded everything to the nearest dollar):

Nintendo DS:
NDS: $150
Play-Yan: $80
Cheapest 512MB SD Card listed on dealram.com: $33 link
Total price: $263

Sony PSP:
PSP Value pack: $250
Cheapest Memory Stick Duo on dealram.com: $61 link
Total price: $311

Also, if you subtract the price of the 32MB stick you get with the system you take $25 off. Total: $286 link Then take off anothe $25 for the headphones that come with the PSP. Final total: $261 link

The reason I took off the stick and headphones was that NDS doesn't come with any of that stuff. This is a direct comparison of the two individual systems, and what they need to play videos.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #24 on: 20 Jun 2005, 11:10 »

You can deduct all you want, but you're still forced to buy them. Might as well deduct $35 from the DS price while you're at it since you get a free game.
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« Reply #25 on: 20 Jun 2005, 11:55 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
You can deduct all you want, but you're still forced to buy them. Might as well deduct $35 from the DS price while you're at it since you get a free game.


By the end of this year you may not be forced to buy them. The rumors are that Sony is releasing a $200 pack that is just the system and a battery. Also, didn't the free game offer end yesterday? I thought that was only through the 19th.
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Johnny C

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« Reply #26 on: 20 Jun 2005, 12:52 »

I think SM64 comes with it now, straight up. That was my understanding, but I could be wrong.

Anyhow, why do you guys even want to watch TV with your gaming device? Buy a VHS or DVD and watch it at home. I want my game-box to have awesome games; I couldn't give two shits about watching Spider-Man 2 on it.
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Ozymandias

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« Reply #27 on: 20 Jun 2005, 15:15 »

Quote from: Inanimate Object
By the end of this year you may not be forced to buy them. The rumors are that Sony is releasing a $200 pack that is just the system and a battery. Also, didn't the free game offer end yesterday? I thought that was only through the 19th.


And rumor is that by the end of the year, Nintendo will be dropping the price of the DS to $100-125.
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« Reply #28 on: 20 Jun 2005, 17:38 »

gta doesnt seem all that appetizing on portable
when i play gta i actually do mission, which takes quite a bit of time typically, which is why i enjoy sitting at home to do some things.

random mayhem gets boring

also, i can only imagine how horrid the load times will be
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« Reply #29 on: 20 Jun 2005, 19:25 »

First, It'd be nice to speak in... you know, full sentences?


Second: I'm assuming it'd be like the old GTA, as in the top-down view.
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« Reply #30 on: 20 Jun 2005, 19:33 »

Quote from: Kai
First, It'd be nice to speak in... you know, full sentences?


Second: I'm assuming it'd be like the old GTA, as in the top-down view.


i dont understand why you would make that assumption at all.


i dont speak in complete sentences most of the time.  its annoying to talk to me on AIM as i talk more int eh way that i think rather than the way that i speak.
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« Reply #31 on: 20 Jun 2005, 19:54 »

I'd just assume that it'd be easier for them to make the top down version of the game like the previous installments rather than like the later ones, simply because I'd be sure the camera would be a big issue with it being 3D on the PSP.
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« Reply #32 on: 20 Jun 2005, 20:55 »

GTA:LCS will be set in Liberty City in 1998(a prequel to GTA3) with San Andreas gameplay, from what I hear.
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« Reply #33 on: 21 Jun 2005, 06:56 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
GTA:LCS will be set in Liberty City in 1998(a prequel to GTA3) with San Andreas gameplay, from what I hear.


Pretty much.

Here's a link to some info about the game. There are also screenshots scanned from a magazine.
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« Reply #34 on: 22 Jun 2005, 00:34 »

Quote from: Inanimate Object
I'm not sure when PSP comes out in Australia, but it's worth the wait.

Battery life is a lot more than 2-3 hours. It's listed as 3-5 on movies and 4-6 on games. I've never dropped below 2 bars on the meter (2/3 charge) and I've played for a couple hours straight before. It also charges pretty fast. About 2 hours for a full charge. You gotta ask yourself the question "When am I going to be away from my adapter for 4 hours. You can play while charging too, so that's not a concern.

Also, UMDs can't be burned, but you can play MP4 files from a memory stick. A feature lenth movie will encode anywhere from 200-300 megabytes, so a 512 stick is fine. You can find on around for $50-$60. Note that NDS doesn't play audio or video at all.

GTA is announced for PSP. It's called "Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories". Check around the major gaming sites to see info about it. I think there are some screen shots released too.

Sorry if I sound a little enthusiastic, but I really like my PSP. Be sure to check out www.psptown.com for more info. </shameless plug>


The battery life on the PSP flat-out sucks. It most definitely is not "a lot" more than 3 hours, even if you spend that whole time playing something fairly simple from a graphics standpoint, like Lumines (which I recommend without any reservations). Try it with Ridge Racers, and you'll see what i mean. I don't see how anybody can be at all enthused about the battery life of the system. If you (thread author) do end up getting a PSP, and if you do like to actually play your games outside of your home on it, you probably want to invest in a power brick or another battery.

The DS will be able to play multimedia files via an accessory called a "Play Yan" rumor has it. Still, it's not meant to do so, and I doubt that it'll be anything spectacular. On the other hand, multimedia on the PSP is some sorry shit, as well. You probably want to stay the hell away from encoding MP4 files unless you've got money to burn on a large memory stick, and patience for how poorly Sony enabled the feature (over piracy concerns, I've heard). E:\MP_ROOT\100MNV01 my ass.

Of course, if you like GTA, that might be a reason to spring for the system. Note that if you do, though, the extra expense won't end any time soon, since PSP games tend to run around $10 more than DS games. Also, invest in a hard case, the system is fairly frail (not such a big deal for the DS, because it's a clamshell design). And if GTA is your reason for getting a PSP, you should wait until that game comes out, for the larger game library, if for no other reason (the next major release, by the way, is Midnight Club 3--the near future for the PSP is pretty dry, though, unless you like UMD movies).

I myself have bought both systems, and if I had to choose one, I'd choose my DS. I do like a lot of games I've played on the PSP, but there are simply too many racers for that system, with other important genres either unrealized or not fleshed out very well (exceptional games besides racers, though, are Hot Shots Golf and Lumines). If I sound gripey, it's only because I spent a lot of money on the PSP (courtesy of a forced USA bundle) and have found it lacking in some areas that should be integral to the type of system it wants to be. I just feel that Nintendo did a rock-solid job in designing the DS, and now that there is a nice list of releases to look forward to, I couldn't be happier with it. But this might just be post-Kirby euphoria.
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« Reply #35 on: 22 Jun 2005, 00:47 »

Quote from: Inanimate Object
Price comparison (I rounded everything to the nearest dollar):

Nintendo DS:
NDS: $150
Play-Yan: $80
Cheapest 512MB SD Card listed on dealram.com: $33 link
Total price: $263

Sony PSP:
PSP Value pack: $250
Cheapest Memory Stick Duo on dealram.com: $61 link
Total price: $311

Also, if you subtract the price of the 32MB stick you get with the system you take $25 off. Total: $286 link Then take off anothe $25 for the headphones that come with the PSP. Final total: $261 link

The reason I took off the stick and headphones was that NDS doesn't come with any of that stuff. This is a direct comparison of the two individual systems, and what they need to play videos.


No, the reason you did all of that stuff is because you want to pimp the PSP. Which isn't a bad thing. But manipulating numbers isn't such a hot way to go about it, to me. Why would I want to take off for the headphones? Was I definitely planning on buying a pair of Sony's earbud/remote control combos? Was I going to buy a 32 MB memory stick after I bought the 512? Assuming I don't own a peripheral that uses the same USB cable as the PSP, don't I need to get one of those as well? And, as somebody else pointed out, why don't you take off for the free Mario 64, as long as we're deducting unnecessary purchases from list price?

Besides, this whole comparison is predicated upon the assumption that multimedia capabilities are even important to the author in a portable gaming system. I didn't see where he said they were, but I may have simply missed it. If it is, though, he should probably just get an MP3 player or a portable DVD player when he absolutely needs one--the former, especially, does its job far far far far better than either system could hope to.
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« Reply #37 on: 22 Jun 2005, 07:40 »

Quote from: besmircher
Quote from: Inanimate Object
Price comparison (I rounded everything to the nearest dollar):

Nintendo DS:
NDS: $150
Play-Yan: $80
Cheapest 512MB SD Card listed on dealram.com: $33 link
Total price: $263

Sony PSP:
PSP Value pack: $250
Cheapest Memory Stick Duo on dealram.com: $61 link
Total price: $311

Also, if you subtract the price of the 32MB stick you get with the system you take $25 off. Total: $286 link Then take off anothe $25 for the headphones that come with the PSP. Final total: $261 link

The reason I took off the stick and headphones was that NDS doesn't come with any of that stuff. This is a direct comparison of the two individual systems, and what they need to play videos.


No, the reason you did all of that stuff is because you want to pimp the PSP. Which isn't a bad thing. But manipulating numbers isn't such a hot way to go about it, to me. Why would I want to take off for the headphones? Was I definitely planning on buying a pair of Sony's earbud/remote control combos? Was I going to buy a 32 MB memory stick after I bought the 512? Assuming I don't own a peripheral that uses the same USB cable as the PSP, don't I need to get one of those as well? And, as somebody else pointed out, why don't you take off for the free Mario 64, as long as we're deducting unnecessary purchases from list price?

Besides, this whole comparison is predicated upon the assumption that multimedia capabilities are even important to the author in a portable gaming system. I didn't see where he said they were, but I may have simply missed it. If it is, though, he should probably just get an MP3 player or a portable DVD player when he absolutely needs one--the former, especially, does its job far far far far better than either system could hope to.


If you "definitely wanted" to have the accesories that I took off, you add the price back on. They can be purchased separately from any game retailer. I was trying to make a direct comparison between the two systems alone. Also, I wasn't aware that Mario 64 was now coming with the system. I was under the assumption that it was a limited time deal.
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« Reply #38 on: 22 Jun 2005, 10:56 »

Well, I do think the likelihood that someone who bought a Nintendo DS and really wanted the multimedia features on the PSP would not buy one but was willing to pay almost the same price for a Play-Yan is somewhat small. <- Worse syntax ever.

I think the haggling over price is inconsequential, as one who's cash-strapped probably shouldn't be buying either, unless they like having electronics for dinner. If the theoretical person could afford either, then it's really up to the games; in that case, DS keeps my vote.
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« Reply #39 on: 22 Jun 2005, 13:33 »

Mikintosh: To rephrase a recent Tycho quote, "I Hope Your Portable Gaming Device Doubles As A Nutritious Meal."
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« Reply #40 on: 24 Jun 2005, 07:32 »

Whatever happened to this idea:  The PSP and DS don't really target the same market.

The PSP is marketed to the tech savy technophile who wants to look snazzy with a graphics and multi media centered device that also plays games that tend to be more adult oriented.

The DS is marketed to primarily younger people (aka kids) and people who want game enjoyment as a priority to game graphics.  Its also marketed at the people who already own GBAs and SPs, with the backwards compatibility.  

The two systems can sort of compliment each other.  If I could, I'd have my DS for Zelda and GBA games, and PSP for when I want eye candy.
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« Reply #41 on: 24 Jun 2005, 08:38 »

I plan to get a DS for two reasons, both centered on game availability.

1) I want to play Gameboy Advance titles, like Zelda: Minish Cap and Baby Mario.

2) Kirby Canvas Curse is the shit.

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« Reply #42 on: 24 Jun 2005, 09:37 »

I'm longing for the day they release Animal Crossing DS! :)
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« Reply #43 on: 24 Jun 2005, 10:33 »

THe fury with which I tap Kirby attests to the awesomeness of the DS.

I tap his ass like I'm sending a telegraph and the screen isn't even scuffed.

I'm even using my heavy, pointy stylus
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« Reply #44 on: 24 Jun 2005, 15:41 »

Quote from: Ozymandias
I'm even using my heavy, pointy stylus

I hope that's a euphemism.
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« Reply #45 on: 24 Jun 2005, 17:12 »

Er, don't you mean you hope it's not a euphemism?

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« Reply #46 on: 24 Jun 2005, 17:29 »

Actually, it's a metal pen from Nintendo that when twisted one way, gives you a ball pointpen and the other way is a DS stylus. It is, however, shaped distinctly like a penis.
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« Reply #47 on: 25 Jun 2005, 02:39 »

Quote from: jhocking
Er, don't you mean you hope it's not a euphemism?

UH YES ABSOLUTLEY

To be honest, I did MEAN to type that, but it came out and looked kinda funny so's I left it.
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