Topic: Real emo (Read 40035 times)

My Aim Is True · « **on:** 09 Jul 2005, 06:28 »

Ok, I'm not quite up to the task of making an emo FAQ (maybe I'll give ti a shot later though), but I always get sort of bummed when seems like people (whether they love it OR hate it) think emo means Something Corporate and Dashboard Confessional, or Taking Back Sunday, or whatever other craptastic band can't find anything to sing about besides a broken heart.

Declarations of SPIN and Alternative Press aside, none of that shit is emo. (Also, From Autumn To Ashes and Thursday are not screamo)

On a board like this, I'd almost take it for granted that people are at least passingly familiar with the old Dischord school of emo, but does anyone have a clue about any emo bands between 1986 and whenever these sad sack bands got popular? Does anyone realize that real emo bands are usually more like hardcore bands, and that hardcore is not all that angsty metal screaming break stuff shit?

GOOD EMO-

Rites Of Spring
Embrace
Turning Point
Hot Water Music
Paint it Black
Trial By Fire
Four Walls Falling
Strike Anywhere
Cap'n Jazz
Waxwing
early Piebald
Dag Nasty
Nation Of Ulysses
Drive Like Jehu
Texas is The Reason
Planes Mistaken For Stars
Unbroken
Twelve Hour Turn
Small Brown Bike
Sparkmarker
Endpoint
Jawbreaker

TrueNeutral · « **Reply #1 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 06:45 »

I do believe From Autumn To Ashes is Emocore. Of course, I could be wrong. I am still not clear on the whole emo mess.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #2 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 06:57 »

FATA is metalcore.

if a band wears girl pants and eyeliner, and there are no girls in the band, then there is a 99.99% chance they are not an emo band, hardcore band, or very good.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #3 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 07:11 »

oh yeah, I should note that I'm not trying to say I'm more old school or smarter about emo, or anything like that, just that I have learned more. Back in 1999 when almost all I listened to was ska, punk, and new wave, I HATED what I thought emo was. I couldn't stand bands like The Get Up Kids and Saves The Day (who both have their roots in emo, but have moved away from it). And it only got worse as all the pop-punk bands turned sad and started calling themselves emo.

Se7en · « **Reply #4 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 07:13 »

Embrace are emo? I think this is stretching genre definitions to the point of meaninglessness, embrace have absolutely nothing in common with any of the bands that actaully identify themselves as "emo" or some variation of it.
If you try and expand the definition of emo to "music with emotions in it" then everything qualifies as emo.

Then again, i have always always catergorised dashboard confessional et all as "wuss-rock".

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #5 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 07:18 »

are you thinking of the band from the UK today? I was referring to the band from DC, in the 80's, with Ian MacKaye. Them and Rites Of Spring pretty much were the first emo bands ever.

Se7en · « **Reply #6 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 07:22 »

Oh right, i was talking about the UK one, i didnt know there was another band by the same name.

Still, i think if you want to reclaim the term "emo" from the snivelling children that think self pity is cool, you need to find a new, insulting term for the crap they listen to. I think wuss rock is pretty apropriate. Start using the term, see if you can make them cry!

lastclearchance · « **Reply #7 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 07:59 »

You're leaving out the entire second half of emo's progression, MyAimIsTrue. I mean, I understand you want to keep it separate from today's "emo" and also injecting your own personal opinion into the matter, but like it or not, if you're trying toi make a semi-objective emo FAQ you can't cut your list off just before Jawbreaker's "Dear You" and pretend that Sunny Day Real Estate isn't emo. I really think people should talk about first wave emo (which is what you're talking about), second-wave emo (which starts with Jawbreaker's "Dear You" and continues through Sunny Day Real Estate (and "Diary" even came out before "Dear You"), Braid, the Promise Ring, Saves the Day, and maybe even early Get Up Kids. And what we have today should probably be called post-emo. Or emo-metal (or is that what people use emocore to mean?)

Or if you have better terminology than the wave thing I just proposed, go to it. But like it or not, emo means these later bands just as much as the old hardcore ones.

sp2 · « **Reply #8 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:00 »

Quote from: My Aim Is True

Jawbreaker

This is album-specific. Dear You was pretty obviously emo. Earlier Jawbreaker, not so much.

Dear You was also their worst album by far.

On another note, I am pretty sure emocore is stuff along the lines of Trail of Dead. I've heard people extend that to At the Drive In, but really, no, no, no, they're not.

lastclearchance · « **Reply #9 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:02 »

Quote from: sp2

Quote from: My Aim Is True
Jawbreaker

This is album-specific. Dear You was pretty obviously emo. Earlier Jawbreaker, not so much.

I think that's his point though. 24 Hour Revenge Therapy could arguably be considered under his "GOOD EMO" heading. "Dear You" is more Sunny Day Real Estate (and more what we think of when we say emo today).

sp2 · « **Reply #10 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:11 »

Questionable. It could be argued that 24 Hour Revenge Therapy was just plain old 90s Wave Punk. 90s punk, for a large part, strayed out of the political arena and into the personal arena anyways, and most of the acts that didn't were all pretty much tools that were cynically going through the motions of punk. While 24HRT was definitely a personal album, and talked a lot about how sucktastic life was, I don't think Jawbreaker really strayed into the dangerous realm of emo until Dear You.

I suppose you could call most 90s personal punk "1st Wave Emo" and just be done with it, but that would tag an emo label on a lot of bands that probably don't deserve that moniker.

lastclearchance · « **Reply #11 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:16 »

Quote from: sp2

I suppose you could call most 90s personal punk "1st Wave Emo" and just be done with it, but that would tag an emo label on a lot of bands that probably don't deserve that moniker.

That's kind of the trouble with the moniker "emo." That sort of trouble comes up later on too: one of the most influential albums of late-90s emo was most decidedly NOT in the genre (Weezer's "Pinkerton" of course).

sp2 · « **Reply #12 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:27 »

What's the trouble, that no one really knows what the fuck they're talking about when they use it? I guess it's like pornography, everyone thinks they knw it when they see it, but no one can really agree on the same things actually BEING emo.

By some definitions, hell, even Soundgarden and Nirvana have at least a foot in the emo scene.

I think this is one of those times where we all need to stop arguing and beat the shit out of the guy with the retro jacket and the Buddy Holly glasses.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #13 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:42 »

I understadn the emo progressing thing, and I'll concede Sunny Day Real Estate, Saves The Day and Get Up Kids and stuff like that, but the wattered down crap like Brand New and Hawthorne Heights or whatever the hell it is this week... I just can't call that emo the same way I can't call Mest, Busted and Good Charlotte punk bands.

est · « **Reply #14 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 08:49 »

stickying this for now so that it doesn't get lost while i'm in the land of nod.

Merkava · « **Reply #15 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 09:10 »

Quote from: Se7en

Embrace are emo? I think this is stretching genre definitions to the point of meaninglessness, embrace have absolutely nothing in common with any of the bands that actaully identify themselves as "emo" or some variation of it.
If you try and expand the definition of emo to "music with emotions in it" then everything qualifies as emo.

Then again, i have always always catergorised dashboard confessional et all as "wuss-rock".

Embrace was the very first TRUE emo band.

KharBevNor · « **Reply #16 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 12:18 »

Okay, if we're going to get tetchy about emo, can we not sling the word 'metal' around whenever we hear overdrive and screaming?

Patatat · « **Reply #17 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 13:26 »

Its funny that most of that list went on to form Shitty Emo.

Because as we all know Emo people have ovaries, that make it impossible for them to make a good third album. They either break up, or just continue on sucking.

And who ever made fun of At-The Drive In is wrong. They were very very good.

sp2 · « **Reply #18 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 13:34 »

You should read more closely. I just said that there's no way in hell ATDI are emocore. That's all.

I love ATDI to pieces. They are awesome. And they are definitely not emocore or screamo or any of those crappy buzzwords.

Merkava · « **Reply #19 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 13:36 »

At the Drive-In is one of my favorite bands, but all that guy was saying was that they weren't "emocore." He said Trail of Dead is emocore, which I may or may not agree with. If emocore is emotional hardcore...I guess you can consider them emocore, but I prefer Indie Rock...emoindie.

sp2 · « **Reply #20 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 13:48 »

I've heard people call Trail of Dead "emocore." I dunno if I buy the label, but whatever.

mechorg · « **Reply #21 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 14:02 »

I thought I nit-picked about labeling genres, but not this bad. I never really paid attention to the whole emo scene since I don't like much of it. However, I haven't listened to any of the earlier emo bands you mention so I think I'll have to get the roots straight.

For what its worth, I like Sparta much better than ATDI.

sp2 · « **Reply #22 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 14:09 »

Quote from: mechorg

For what its worth, I like Sparta much better than ATDI.

Sparta is an uninspired attempt to keep the ATDI flames burning after all the talent left the band.

mechorg · « **Reply #23 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 14:10 »

Harsh, but an opinon nonetheless.

sp2 · « **Reply #24 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 14:15 »

The problem with Sparta is they are totally uninspired. They don't really have an original sound because the rest of the band really didn't have much actual talent. Sparta half the time tries to rip off ATDI and half the time tries to rip off various emo acts.

But let's be fair, the drums, bass, and rhythm guitar were never particularly inspired in ATDI either, so it's really no surprise that they're equally shit in Sparta.

Patatat · « **Reply #25 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 14:33 »

I don't know what Trail of Dead they are talking about, but the one I am listening to doesn't sound a thing like emocore.

I thought you were saying At-The Drive In wasn't emo either. I don't think they are screamo or emocore, or some other sub-genre.

ebullientsoul · « **Reply #26 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 15:44 »

Quote from: My Aim Is True

Ok, I'm not quite up to the task of making an emo FAQ (maybe I'll give ti a shot later though), but I always get sort of bummed when seems like people (whether they love it OR hate it) think emo means Something Corporate and Dashboard Confessional, or Taking Back Sunday, or whatever other craptastic band can't find anything to sing about besides a broken heart.

Declarations of SPIN and Alternative Press aside, none of that shit is emo. (Also, From Autumn To Ashes and Thursday are not screamo)

On a board like this, I'd almost take it for granted that people are at least passingly familiar with the old Dischord school of emo, but does anyone have a clue about any emo bands between 1986 and whenever these sad sack bands got popular? Does anyone realize that real emo bands are usually more like hardcore bands, and that hardcore is not all that angsty metal screaming break stuff shit?

GOOD EMO-

Rites Of Spring
Embrace
Turning Point
Hot Water Music
Paint it Black
Trial By Fire
Four Walls Falling
Strike Anywhere
Cap'n Jazz
Waxwing
early Piebald
Dag Nasty
Nation Of Ulysses
Drive Like Jehu
Texas is The Reason
Planes Mistaken For Stars
Unbroken
Twelve Hour Turn
Small Brown Bike
Sparkmarker
Endpoint
Jawbreaker

Planes may have been on Deep Elm, but that was two albums ago.
Strike Anywhere is quite far from emo. I don't hear them going on about girls they've lost.
Ditto for Paint it Black.

Are you just picking names at random from the Jade Tree website? Because if Trial By Fire is an emo band, so is Nausea.

I don't think its possible to categorize Hot Water Music as anything but a KICK ASS band.

Aside from those, I'd say its an inspired list.

Sturge · « **Reply #27 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 16:58 »

Cap'n Jazz ARE NOT AN EMO BAND

GO DIE IN A HOLE

you have just attempted to mutilate and awesome band

The only 'emo' band I like are Favez, because they're easy listening and you can sing along...

saturnine1979 · « **Reply #28 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 17:13 »

Cap'n Jazz spawned both The Promise Ring and Joan Of Arc.

get over it.

Patatat · « **Reply #29 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 17:39 »

See people still insist on mixing New Age-Faux Emo that is similar to Pop Punk (good charlotte, simple plan.) that spit in the face of their father genres.

est · « **Reply #30 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 19:36 »

saturnine1979, what's your avatar from?

saturnine1979 · « **Reply #31 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 19:50 »

Tilly And The Wall

it's from the song "Night Of The Living Dead"

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #32 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 20:13 »

Quote from: ebullientsoul

Strike Anywhere ...I don't hear them going on about girls they've lost.
Ditto for Paint it Black.

That's exactly my point.

But half of PIB's new album is a metaphor for Dan Yemin's divorce.

ebullientsoul · « **Reply #33 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 21:23 »

Quote from: My Aim Is True

Quote from: ebullientsoul

Strike Anywhere ...I don't hear them going on about girls they've lost.
Ditto for Paint it Black.

That's exactly my point.

But half of PIB's new album is a metaphor for Dan Yemin's divorce.

I've never heard that idea about Paradise before, but I'd like to hear where you did.

If the definition we're using of emo is music with emotion then that pretty much makes most groups out there emo.

movielife_girl · « **Reply #34 on:** 09 Jul 2005, 22:32 »

EMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

psht. emo.

lastclearchance · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 00:51 »

Quote from: KharBevNor

Okay, if we're going to get tetchy about emo, can we not sling the word 'metal' around whenever we hear overdrive and screaming?

My fault. Point taken.

trolley · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 02:52 »

Hello, i'm gonna drap the red rag around myself here and say some of the music I listen to would be the 'crap emo' you guys are referring to; specifically Dashboard Confessional. But I would like to take this time to say that I don't sit around crying into my pillow as I listen. I enjoy the music and it makes me happy, not sad, the same as all other bands I listen to. Don't just tar everyone with the same brush. Sure, Dahsboard Confessional do have a disproportionately higher amount of sad boys and gals supporting them, but that does mean well adjusted people can listen to them to.

Get down off your goddamn pedastals, take the poles out of your asses and actually give some things a chance. Otherwise you're just as bad as the mainstream supporters you secretly feel superior to.

est · « **Reply #37 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 03:16 »

problem with Dashboard, etc, if i understand it correctly, is that it's not emo. sure, it might be "emotional music" or whatever, but "emo" as a genre doesn't encompass everything that is "emotional-sounding".

man, fuck it. i think that links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_(music) will do.

trolley · « **Reply #38 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 03:50 »

Yeah, i'm personally don't agree that it comes under the definition of emo. It just bugs me the way people sneer at the band because of who their fans are, and have achieved more mainstream success than obscureindieband.

Robbo · « **Reply #39 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 04:04 »

My general reaction to lines like that is that you probably dont understand why people are sneering the. But *shrug* maybe you do.

As much as real Emo is better than a lot of crap out there...and Emotional Hardcore is pretty decent...it's just lead me back to loving Hardcore Punk/Crossover and Crust stuff more.

Though it's really interesting to sit and watch the whole stereotyping and mislabelling of a genre and the mainstream perversion of it's music from the outside.. (well, the effects rather than the events) than being part of it.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #40 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 05:18 »

I found this website to be pretty accurate.

www.fourfa.com

Nobody will agree 100% on things, so there are a few tiny nitpicky things he gets into that I'd roll my eyes at, probably vice versa, but this site gets it pretty close. Just take a bit of it with a grain of salt, and try to recognize the satire aspects here and there.

Oh, and to KharBevNor- I think metal is a much broader term than emo, but many of the bands mentioned here do need qualifers, like metalcore or nu-metal or what have you.

Robbo · « **Reply #41 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 05:24 »

I dunno about broader term....broader in terms of genres yes. Thought what is and isn't Metal is still pretty tight. But yes, some things are part of Metal, or Metal influenced.

Just have to break way from what isn't Metal, just median labeled. The New Urbarn Alt Rock (Nu Metal) and influenced stuff like Metalcore...which has gone from being a crossbreed to Core with Metal touches. And boy do people rip on it these days.

Oh, and fourfa.com rocks...I've gotten some nice info from there...what I used to check out some of the good stuff.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #42 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 05:34 »

Quote from: ebullientsoul

Quote from: My Aim Is True
Quote from: ebullientsoul

Strike Anywhere ...I don't hear them going on about girls they've lost.
Ditto for Paint it Black.

That's exactly my point.

But half of PIB's new album is a metaphor for Dan Yemin's divorce.

I've never heard that idea about Paradise before, but I'd like to hear where you did.

If the definition we're using of emo is music with emotion then that pretty much makes most groups out there emo.

You are still missing the point. Emo does NOT mean "music with emotion" but it also if all a band does is whine about girls and feeling lonely, then that is NOT emo either. The original emo movement grew out of 80's hardcore bands that got sick of meatheaded aspects of the scene, and branched into a blending of the personal and the political (which whether or not they realized it, is a core tenet of a large school of thought in modern sociology, especially academic feminism).

Do you like Minor Threat? Then go here and buy this http://www.dischord.com/store?action=showRel&relNumber=24 And then you will have a start on where emo came from.

And as for Paint It Black, I can't remember where I first heard it, but read this-

Quote from: http://jadetree.com/releases/product/JT1103

PAINT IT BLACK'S follow up to their urgent and trouncing CVA is epic in comparison. Not simply in terms of song length, but more importantly in terms of subject matter. Paradise contains all the mile-a-minute passion of the last release coupled with a more thematic tone, exploring the personal pains of divorce, the more global concerns of war and how the two are hopelessly intertwined. The end result is a heroic look inward and ultimately a catharsis guised in uncompromising intensity and spirit.

And by the way, about half the songs on PIB's first album were about Dan Yemin's stroke. CVA stands for "Cardio Vascular Accident," the medical term for a stroke. Can't get much more personal than that. PIB is an emo band. Because emo is a type of hardcore.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 05:39 »

PS- dear mods, please don't lock this thread.

Robbo · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 05:45 »

Threads like this around the board make me thing that Emo is now one of the most misunderstand, mislabelled and least really known about genres along with Metal.

Hmmm, should probably go check out some more of it at some point.

movielife_girl · « **Reply #45 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 08:37 »

Quote from: Robbo

Threads like this around the board make me thing that Emo is now one of the most misunderstand, mislabelled and least really known about genres along with Metal.

Hmmm, should probably go check out some more of it at some point.

The only reason why emo is the way it is today is because it feels misunderstood.

Robbo · « **Reply #46 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 08:43 »

Nice pot shot at the stereotypical and incorrect massmedia idea of Emo.

My Aim Is True · « **Reply #47 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 08:53 »

I actually thought that joke was pretty funny.

sp2 · « **Reply #48 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 09:33 »

Classy, too.

zekterellium · « **Reply #49 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 09:57 »

about half the bands you mentioned are post-hardcore.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: Real emo (Read 40035 times)

TrueNeutral

Se7en

Se7en

sp2

sp2

sp2

Merkava

Patatat

sp2

Merkava

sp2

mechorg

sp2

mechorg

sp2

Patatat

ebullientsoul

Sturge

saturnine1979

Patatat

saturnine1979

ebullientsoul

trolley

trolley

Robbo

Robbo

Robbo

Robbo

sp2

zekterellium