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[MilkmanDan]

Well last time I tried this I named some bands, described them as 'guitar-based noodling' and discovered that I loved post-rock. Let's try again, and see if I like another genre I've never heard of.

This time around, I'm listening to 'spastic guitars and hysterical screaming'. Now, this probobly doesn't help much, but fear not, I will name example bands:

At the Drive-in
Youthmovie Soundtrack Strategies
The Blood Brothers
The Constantines
ˇForward, Russia!
...And you will know us by the trail of dead
The Oxes

Now, I'm pretty sure The Blood Brothers and The Constantines are post-hardcore, but I don't think the others are. Trail of dead and The Oxes only just get in, because Trail of dead aren't really mental enough, and The Oxes don't have screaming. But they have a similer vibe about them, so I stuck them in. Do those bands actually share a genre, or (as I suspect) their only thing in common is that I like them all?
In either case, any other bands that sound similer? This isn't an excuse to start naming bullshit metal bands just because they have screaming in. Ditto bullshit hardcore bands or whatever. The emphasis is on the spastic guitars. I want fucked-up time signitures and terrifying mid-song tempo lurches, and then I want yelps and screams and shit over the top. Like math-rock, but HARDER. I want children to cry if I play it to them. I want the fact the children are crying to be due to the music, not the fact I'm beating them up by flailing around like a psychotic jack in the box.

At least I think I do. I might turn out to hate that sort of thing, but let's give it a shot, eh?

[FruitKat]

I've heard of atdi being described as "emo"... But don't quote me on that, because thats just what people have told me. Truth be told I don't know shit about genres.
Just thought I'd put up what I know and see if it helps.
Also I saw the Blood Brothers on Tuesday and they were awesome. So if awesome is a genre, you just found it

[Unosuke]

how about we call it emo spaz-core

[MilkmanDan]

So if awesome is a genre, you just found it

Hell, I've been listening to awesome for years. It's like, totally my favourite genre. Problem is, record shops never have an 'awesome' section, and they look at me funny when I ask about it.

I've also been told ATDI are emo, but that can't be right becasue they aren't whiny, and don't sing about being dumped all the time. Oh! Joke'd!
So, maybe. The genre I'm searching for ain't emo though, not even 'real' emo, before someone comes and starts bitching at me.

[FruitKat]

Lucky you! It's taken me years to discover the awesome genre! Glad I'm there now!

Also, I had the same problem with the Blood Brothers, not knowing what the hell genre they fit in, not that it's important, just that it interests me.

Maybe I'll just sit back now and wait for other intelligent music people to post.

[Praeserpium Machinarum]

Now I have no idea about genres either, but isn't both At the Drive-In and The Blood Brothers hardcore while Trail of Dead is proggy megalomania...er, core?

[kikanjuuneko]

Well, to continue perpetuating stupid memes, I do recall some people at a point referring to The Blood Brothers as "sasscore" thanks to all the prancing and girly vocals.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Now I have no idea about genres either, but isn't both At the Drive-In and The Blood Brothers hardcore while Trail of Dead is proggy megalomania...er, core?

At the Drive-In and The Blood Brothers both are not hardcore, if at all, they're post-hardcore, which is a huge difference because it has a fancy word in front of it.
Also, I've heard people call At the Drive-In emocore and given their earlier records (especially the El Gran Orgo stuff), it sometimes even fits.
Still, I say: Post-hardcore on both accounts.

And yeah, at least the last Trail Of Dead album did have prog influences.

Also, I love genre-wanking.

[La Creme]

When I'm bored, I make up genre names for Mr. Bungle songs. It's more fun than you'd think.

Ex. None Of Them Knew They Were Robots is totally psychobilly-noisecore-post-swing-electronica.

[McTaggart]

My friend banned me from talking about music he hasn't heard for trying shit like that.

Awesome fun.

[My Aim Is True]

wow, there's no way I'd call The Constantines "post-hardcore," which is already a pretty broad hyphenated-genre. I would put ATDi and Blood Brothers under the post-hardcore umbrella, and earlier Trail Of Dead (but not "worlds apart"). I generally find the label post-hardcore to be sort of useless. The two classic examples of "post-hardcore" that immediately jump to mind are Fugazi and Quicksand, which sound nothing alike.

anyway, based on that list, and your specifications, check out these bands.


older bands:
Fugazi
Sweep the Leg Johnny
The Birthday Party
Nation Of Ulysses
Rites Of Spring

newer bands:
The Paper Chase
old Hot Hot Heat (not anything off their last two albums)
Les Savy Fav
Racebannon
Bear Vs. Shark
Sex Positions

I would reccomend Converge, but they probably lean a little too much towards metal.

[MilkmanDan]

Yeah, well, I think we can agree that genre's are bullshit. Thrilling and original as making up genres is, I'm glad to see someone actually recommending some stuff, which was kinda the point.

I downloaded some Fugazi and Bear Vs Shark a week or so back, but haven't really listened to 'em much. Nation Of Ulysses, Rites Of Spring and Quicksand were on my enormous 'bands to check out' list, but the rest are new to me. I'll get on to them. Converge too. Worth a shot.

[My Aim Is True]

i don't think all genres are bullshit, just such poorly defined ones as "post-hardcore," which can mean grunge-metal, emo, math rock, or something else.

[sp2]

Post-hardcore, as I've heard it described, is pretty much mildly to extremely avant hardcore-influenced music.  Very frantic and spastic.

Also

There's no way ATDI are emo or emocore, at least, not on their later albums.  Emo has definite lyrical requirements and ATDI do not fit those requirements.  Post-hardcore is a legit term for them, even if it's poorly defined.  Emo is not.

While Trail of Dead has somme prog influence,  they are not prog.  The elements that would make them proggy are elements present in a lot of post-hardcore, although they focus more on time signatures and chord progressions than most other post-hardcore.  This excludes, of course, Worlds Apart, which defies the post-hardcore classification and really should just be classified as shit.

Would anyone consider Q and not U to have post-hardcore influence?  Although they are not post-hardcore sensu-stricto (they're way too light, for one thing), they definitely have that sort of avant distortion-heavy spastic feel in many of their songs, specifically on No Kill, No Beep Beep.  Thoughts?

[SpacemanSpiff]

Yeah, No Kill, No Beep Beep does have quite a few post-hardcore influences, though I prefer to call the whole thing Washington-D.C.-hardcore because it adds another useless genre and thus confuses people even more.

However, how would you classify Different Damage? Power is sort of post-punk to me (as in Les Savy Fav and similar stuff), but Different Damage is sort of a mixture I can't quite put my finger on. A damn good mixture though.

[My Aim Is True]

Post-hardcore, as I've heard it described, is pretty much mildly to extremely avant hardcore-influenced music.  Very frantic and spastic.

Also

There's no way ATDI are emo or emocore, at least, not on their later albums.  Emo has definite lyrical requirements and ATDI do not fit those requirements.  Post-hardcore is a legit term for them, even if it's poorly defined.  Emo is not.

While Trail of Dead has somme prog influence,  they are not prog.  The elements that would make them proggy are elements present in a lot of post-hardcore, although they focus more on time signatures and chord progressions than most other post-hardcore.  This excludes, of course, Worlds Apart, which defies the post-hardcore classification and really should just be classified as shit.

Would anyone consider Q and not U to have post-hardcore influence?  Although they are not post-hardcore sensu-stricto (they're way too light, for one thing), they definitely have that sort of avant distortion-heavy spastic feel in many of their songs, specifically on No Kill, No Beep Beep.  Thoughts?

I agree with pretty much everything in that post, except where you say that post-hardcore is neccesarily "very frantic and spastic." A lot of it is, but bands like Quicksand are pretty straight forward, and then other post-hardcore bands can get downright mellow.

[sp2]

However, how would you classify Different Damage? Power is sort of post-punk to me (as in Les Savy Fav and similar stuff), but Different Damage is sort of a mixture I can't quite put my finger on. A damn good mixture though.

Agreed.  Some of their stuff I call dubcore for shits and giggles because they definitely have a dub influence.  Different Damage is a bit more dubcore than No Kill.

I do think dubcore is the funniest possible name for a genre and should be used at every possible opportunity, even if inaccurate.

Some of BearvsShark's stuff on Right Now You're In The Best Of Hands is maybe possibly dubcore.  You know, if you squint your ears a little.

[My Aim Is True]

dubcore is a pretty funny one.

it can be funny to make up genre names. I'm sure it probably exists, but what does post-pop sound like?

[sp2]

I'm sure it probably exists, but what does post-pop sound like?

Sigor Ros maybe?  Or Bjork?

[SpacemanSpiff]

Dubcore? Shit, son, I loves me some good dubcore. As a matter of fact, I'm going to make a band that will only play dubcore. Best genre ever. Even better than salsaprog (The Mars Volta is totally salsaprog).

I've also thought about forming a band that makes horrible noise but that samples trumpets and also has offbeat songs, so the music can be called "skacore". You know, I've found that everything labeled ska attracts lots of dumb kids around here, I would love to seriously disturb them once. :p

[SpacemanSpiff]

Damn. Someone was faster than me!

Now, should I either play post-skacore or experimental skacore?

[sp2]

I'd call Mars Volta salsaprogcore.  A little too heavy for just salsaprog.

What about popcore?  That could be a really amusing genre.

[sp2]

Post-skacore, obviously.

[Saturday]

so, what about Post-Pop? . some great bands in there...

[sp2]

If you like that sort of thing...






...you're probably a pretty vanilla boring type of person.

Just kidding.....OR AM I?????

[La Creme]

Ska-core is pretty much just any 3rd wave ska that's overly distorted and brash and such. The greatest skacore band is obviously the Blue Meanies.

Also, I don't get all this shit about "post-hardcore". Post means after. So how the fuck is something "after" hardcore if hardcore has really only been around for less than 10 years...

Whatever, I say you can only add "-core" to something when you make it louder and more forward than it would be in its not-core'd form.

In that spirit, I wonder what hard would sound like...

[sp2]

Also, I don't get all this shit about "post-hardcore". Post means after. So how the fuck is something "after" hardcore if hardcore has really only been around for less than 10 years...

You are clearly unfamiliar with the exponential acceleration of society.  Also, technically, post has less to do with a temporal discrepancy and more to do with the fact that it takes an existing genre and eliminates conventional structure and composition.  Post-hardcore is "post" because it eliminates traditional hardcore structure and instrument roles while retaining certain aspects of hardcore sensibility.  Post-hardcore has an undeniable connection to hardcore music, but at the same time is certainly not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination.

[La Creme]

Man, I wish society would just slow the fuck down in its changing of styles and such. Maybe if humans had evolved from sloths or something.

Holy shit, that's the third best idea I've ever had... SLOTHPEOPLE!

Ok, so sue me, the idea actually kind of sucks. Fucking brain. Fucking caffeine.

[sp2]

Wrong.  Much better if people are trying new things constantly and developing new ideas.  Creativity is a GOOD thing.

[KharBevNor]

What about popcore?

Wouldn't that be the same as riot-pop or zombiepop?

I could probably make a good case for Jack Off Jill's first full-length being popcore. You know, in that magical vacuum after they were really riot grrl and before they learned to use more than one riff per song.

[My Aim Is True]

[if Popcore just measn poppy hardcore, then we've already got bands like No Warning and H2O.

the latter being a good band, the former just sounding like nu-metal.

[My Aim Is True]

oh, and to MilkmanDan, last night at work, this thread popped into my head because I had a ton of Mission Of Burma songs stuck in my head. You definitely need to check them out.

[MilkmanDan]

Right, Mission of Burma. I've heard good things. I'll get on it.
Thanks alot for all the suggestions.