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[Eldirial]

Well, i would have had my new computer tonight, but the bank enjoyed putting a 5 day hold on my student loan check, so now I wait... but, this gives me time to ask- is there any real reason I shouldn't get a Mac?  I was planning on getting one of the cheaper Imac's (bout 1300 with extras), and other than gaming (Which I don't need much of- I need to focus on college, not games) I can't find a real reason to keep away from macs.

Anybody?

[salada]

well when i saw this thread i was going to ask about gaming (fact of life, you'll miss out on a lot of cool games if you stick to mac exclusively).

can i ask what you're studying? certain degrees lend themselves to one platform or the other, while a lot are sort of ambivalent about it.

would you be getting a laptop or a desktop machine?

also, apple do that student discount thing.

[Eldirial]

Desktop- I have a couple year old Windows machine for a laptop, it will last me a little while longer.

I'm studying history, with the intent to teach- so there isn't really much computer preferance in there.

And I will probably allways also have a windows machine of some sort- I just think a mac might make day to day computer usage, (mainly schoolwork, music and movies) Nice and easy.

[Inanimate Object]

If you'll have a PC to do things like convert Word documents, then by all means, get a Mac. For what you want, it seems like an iMac would be perfect. It's nice and fast so schoolwork will be a breeze. You'll have iTunes, which is just about the best music player out there (even most PC people agree). Last but definitely not least, iMacs have a beautiful 16:9 screen so movies are incredible.

And if you want to game, even the lowest model iMac can still handle the best games available for Mac. There are limited options as to what there is to play though.

[Sythe]

I think I've seen one Mac game in my life.

[Inanimate Object]

You haven't looked hard enough then. There aren't a lot, but there are a few good ones. I still play Age of Empires II, WarCraft III, Jedi Knight II, and various freeware games. Also, the reason all the games I listed were old was because of lack of processing power, not lack of new games. Stupid old iBook...

[Duchess Tapioca]

You should get pc with an AMD Turion 64 processor, because it makes things better for cheaper. There are three real reasons to get a mac:

1. You have lots of extra cash laying around. You want to show your friends that every time you puke, up comes silver dollars.
2. You hate right clicking.
3. You cannot live without a rotating desktop background.

Also, if you are use to having a pc and using ctrl+c and ctrl+v and ctrl+whatevertheeff, you will get very mad. This may lead to defenistration of your sleek and stylish, unsuprisingly aerodynamic computer.

If you would like a mac for any valid reason, including the ones listed above, please get a mac, because it really doesn't matter that much.

[salada]

the right clicking thing is sort of a moot point. any mac user worth their salt would have gone out and bought a 2-button mouse. extra expense i know, but you could pick up some 2-button-scoll-wheel affair for pretty cheap.

also the machines are a little more expensive, true, but they tend to last longer between upgrades. the upgrades thing, however, is an issue. unless you get a G5 tower, upgrading components one at a time (short of basic things like RAM) is difficult, or sometimes impossible.

converting word documents shouldn't be an issue. for your area, most of everything should be cross-platform compatible.

something else to consider though, is the motorola-to-intel switch that apple recently announced. this means that sometime in 2006 apple will release a range of machines built around intel chips. from what i can see, this shouldn't discourage you from buying a mac now (as opposed to holding out for the intel machines). software titles will still be developed and supported for older PPC-based macs over the next few years, whereas the intel machines will have a sort of "1.0 phase" if you know what i mean.

but then i'm biased from having used macs forever (and now i'm studying graphic design, so they're the dominant platform), so yeah.

[Valrus]

If games don't matter, what you should do is find a way to give OS X a spin, because the OS is really what makes Macs worth the extra money you'll usually have to pay. If you like OS X, get a Mac. If it just doesn't impress you all that much, stick with a PC.

This is coming from a Mac evangelist who is exercising a monumental amount of willpower to let Duchess Tapioca's "real reasons to get a Mac" jab go unanswered.

[Inanimate Object]

The real real reasons to get a Mac:

Better security. OS X is close to impossible to break into. I have had Macs for almost 10 years now, and never had a virus.

No crashing. A program might go down, but it almost never takes the system with it. Overall, Mac OS X is a lot more stable then Win XP.

The iLife suite. With a new Mac you get: iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iCal, Garageband, Pages, and Keynote (among other programs, this is just iLife). All of these are great apps and can do most of the things you'll need for school. iTunes plays music. iPhoto stores and organizes all your digital photos. iMovie is basically a better version of Windows Movie Maker. iCal is a great app for keeping track of appointments and such. Garageband is for designing musical tracks, this can include live recording from an instrument or microphone, or just playing around with prerecorded loops. Pages is the new text editor and layout program. It will do everything you need in the way of typing papers and similar things. Keynote is what it sounds like, a speech and presentation editor. I've never used it so I can't say much about it.

Anyway, there are three very good reasons to go Mac.

Although, as Salada said, there are new Macs coming out next year. June 2006 isn't that far away. I know the older ones will still be supported, but for how long?

[Eldirial]

You should get pc with an AMD Turion 64 processor, because it makes things better for cheaper. There are three real reasons to get a mac:

1. You have lots of extra cash laying around. You want to show your friends that every time you puke, up comes silver dollars.
2. You hate right clicking.
3. You cannot live without a rotating desktop background.

Also, if you are use to having a pc and using ctrl+c and ctrl+v and ctrl+whatevertheeff, you will get very mad. This may lead to defenistration of your sleek and stylish, unsuprisingly aerodynamic computer.

If you would like a mac for any valid reason, including the ones listed above, please get a mac, because it really doesn't matter that much.

See, thats the kind of responce I get from many of my friends- no real reasons, just some bull- opinions are nice, but they arn't very good reasons to stay away from things.

And, to update- I may be able to get my computer today, we shall see- I shall report on how it goes when I am online later.

[Se7en]

Actually, all comparisons of security and reliablity, are null and void. Good maintainance and administration means both platforms are identical from that point of view.

Personally, i find the mac interface utterly horrible, and the entire design concept insulting to my intelligence.

Ultimately, a PC is more flexible, cheaper, and more powerful. It just demands slightly more expertise to get the most out of it.

[jhocking]

*poof*

[jhocking]

What are you, crazy?  Asking this on the Internet?!  Holy shit, the howling wolves are coming... RUN!!!

If you'll have a PC to do things like convert Word documents

Okay, I've heard a bunch of "things PCs can do that Macs can't" that aren't actually true (eg. the right-click thing mentioned above,) but this is a new one.  Why do you need to convert Word documents, and why do you need a PC to do it?

something else to consider though, is the motorola-to-intel switch that apple recently announced.

Don't you mean IBM-to-Intel switch?  My sister's boyfriend works for IBM.  He told me that his supervisor held a scary meeting to convey the bad news.  Then like a week later there was another meeting where his supervisor was all "Fuck Apple, we don't need them!  We got XBOX!"

[Valrus]

Personally, i find the mac interface utterly horrible, and the entire design concept insulting to my intelligence.

Can anyone recommend a PC without taking a jab at the Mac?

Can Eldirial use his or her own aesthetic sensibilities to make a decision, since s/he already said s/he gets plenty of bullshit opinions from his or her friends?

[Se7en]

You can make any technological argument you like, but utimately the PC is the dominant platform, so its better supported, has better software avaliabilty, less compatibilty problems, and its cheaper, and faster. This is all because PCs outnumber macs 10 to one. Put the bulk of industry effort behind ANY platform and it will become the best one, regardless of its origins.

Lots of people argue against macs by talking about hte things PCs can do that macs cant.. but thats a silly argument. The real argument against macs, is that anything a mac can do, a PC can do too, so the PC wins because of the factors i mentioned above.

[Inanimate Object]

Why do you need to convert Word documents, and why do you need a PC to do it?

something else to consider though, is the motorola-to-intel switch that apple recently announced.

Don't you mean IBM-to-Intel switch?  My sister's boyfriend works for IBM.  He told me that his supervisor held a scary meeting to convey the bad news.  Then like a week later there was another meeting where his supervisor was all "Fuck Apple, we don't need them!  We got XBOX!"

I meant that havind a PC in addition to a Mac can be useful sometimes. I imagine that he already has Word. Therefore, he wouldn't need to buy Word for Mac. He could just convert Word files into a different format if he needed them on his Mac. Saves some money on buying expensive Microsoft products.

Also, IBM doesn't make the processor chips for Apple. They're Motorola PowerPC chips. At least, that's what I've always heard.

[jhocking]

its better supported, has better software avaliabilty

That's true.  Lookit how many viruses are written for Windows!  OSX only has one!  Losers.

Also, IBM doesn't make the processor chips for Apple. They're Motorola PowerPC chips. At least, that's what I've always heard.

Really?  Then wtf was sis' bf yammering about?  I should ask my girlfriend's brother, he works for Motorola (oy, this is turning into "six degrees of kevin bacon.")

[Inanimate Object]

its better supported, has better software avaliabilty

That's true.  Lookit how many viruses are written for Windows!  OSX only has one!  Losers.

Wait, there's even one? I've never heard of it...

Anwyay, whoever said that you can't compare security on Mac and Windows is spouting complete bullshit. On a PC you need all kinds of firewalling and spyware/adware protection. On my Mac, all I run is the built-in firewall. It's because Mac OS X is based on Unix, and Windows is based on DOS. Guess which one has more holes then swiss cheese...

[Duchess Tapioca]

See, thats the kind of responce I get from many of my friends- no real reasons, just some bull- opinions are nice, but they arn't very good reasons to stay away from things.

Geezems, what do you expect? There isn't a real reason but I wanted to tell you that I thought it was annoying switching between the two. What argument is anyone going to make? PC's are better because you can have 4 letters as an extension instead of 3?

The best thing about macs is that word automatically puts the word count at the bottom of your pages when you're typing a page. That made me really happy. And it was really nice that I could make it say "It is my fault master, I did it, I am sorry now." Whenever photoshop had a error.

I'm sorry if mac people didn't like what I said, but most of the time, people who have had a pc for a long time or in the first place prefer them, and vice versa. And there are a few people who switch, but it's usually when they didn't use the other one very much, or they thought it was confusing, or there was a really cool specific thing they wanted. Switching anything is stressful. It's like moving, and trying to get your couch up the stairs.

*sniffle* Don't you insult dos! I don't care if it's flawed! That is how I open all the games of my childhood! I miss typing D://setup.exe/theislandofdrbrain or however it goes! I miss the three screens of error when I forgot a slash!

[Se7en]

Bollocks. Utter, utter bollocks. OSx has just as many security holes as windows XP does, since both are badly written. What they are based on has nothing to do with it. Many unix systems are horribly insecure, because they run many many badly tested programs, and many distros include a whole raft of bad programs that a user might not even be aware of.

Any dominant platform will need protection in the form of a firewall, since all the exploits will be aimed at the dominant platform. Security through obscurity is a fallacy, so the need for a firewall is largely irrelevant.

Also, your assertion that windows is based on DOS is largely incorrect. Everything after windows ME is based entirely on windows NT, which was a server OS written from scratch. Windows XP now only supports DOS through emulation.

Malware is entirely a browser related problem. Run firefox and the problem goes away. Malware is a problem that is bassically exclusive to Internet Explorer.

[jhocking]

Wait, there's even one? I've never heard of it...

http://www.lowendmac.com/lite/03/0813.html

it was really nice that I could make it say "It is my fault master, I did it, I am sorry now." Whenever photoshop had a error.

That is an awesome idea!  I totally need to do this right now.

[Inanimate Object]

Bollocks. Utter, utter bollocks. OSx has just as many security holes as windows XP does, since both are badly written. What they are based on has nothing to do with it. Many unix systems are horribly insecure, because they run many many badly tested programs, and many distros include a whole raft of bad programs that a user might not even be aware of.

Any dominant platform will need protection in the form of a firewall, since all the exploits will be aimed at the dominant platform. Security through obscurity is a fallacy, so the need for a firewall is largely irrelevant.

Also, your assertion that windows is based on DOS is largely incorrect. Everything after windows ME is based entirely on windows NT, which was a server OS written from scratch. Windows XP now only supports DOS through emulation.

Malware is entirely a browser related problem. Run firefox and the problem goes away. Malware is a problem that is bassically exclusive to Internet Explorer.

Haha. Read that article that jhocking posted a link to right above this post. That'll show you how "easy" it is to hack into Mac OS X...

Man oh man, I feel really sorry for those people running 10.2.6 and Safari 1.0 who happen to visit a website with a certain ad. And the virus doesn't even do anything! It just sends itself to a million people.

My apologies for assuming that Win XP was still based on DOS. All I know is that it's full of holes...

[Se7en]

yeah right, im going to belive an article obviously written by a rabidly pro-mac geek that doesnt even have the good grace to put their name to the article? Thats rotton journalism, if you could even call it that.

[will: wanton sex god]

if you can afford a mac. go for it.
im happy with my ibook.

[Inanimate Object]

yeah right, im going to belive an article obviously written by a rabidly pro-mac geek that doesnt even have the good grace to put their name to the article? Thats rotton journalism, if you could even call it that.

Lowendmac is most definitely not rotten journalism. They are pro-mac, but they don't lie. I dare you to find me an article reporting any other Mac OS X virus. Even another article reporting this one. Go on, do it...

[jhocking]

These aren't more viruses, but more amusing articles related to OSX virus vulnerability:

This one reminds me of why the first thing I did at my new job was stop running Norton on all the machines: because Syantec is a bunch of cocks.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120213,00.asp

seven probably shouldn't read this one, as the writing smacks of fanboyism.
http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/it/archive/000203.html

ADDITION: Oo, found another one:
http://its.southwestern.edu/kbs/?p=98

[Se7en]

I dont see what the issue is. Virii are the result of poor administration, and stupid users. I havn't had a single virus on any of my machines, in over 10 years of windows use. Every virus infection i have ever seen has been atributable to idiots that open obviously infected emails and the like.

Speaking as an IT journalist, i can tell you that fanboyism has no place whatsoever in legitimate journalism. Such bias invalidates the entire article, and undermines whatever credibility the writer ever had.

Bottom line: Windows security is a fairly trivial task, and whatever a mac costs, you can get twice the PC for the same price.

[Tedd]

I've never used a Mac before, unless that time I stayed at the Apple store using their internet for two hours because I was kicked out of the house.

....


They weren't too happy about it.

[Lug]

I don't see a point why I should use a Mac because there isn't anything that a Mac can do that Linux can't.

If all you want is a laptop to go and surf the web, check your e-mail, play some tunes, instant message and use a word processor try out Ubuntu.

You can get all the features you want without having to pay out the nose.

[jhocking]

I know a couple people who run Linux on iBooks.  Most people (including me) think they're crazy, but apparently they purchased based on hardware and didn't care about software.

[nickyandthefuture]

AMIGA MORE LIEK GAYMIGA M I RITE OLOL

NE1 HAV NAKD PIX OF STAR TREK?!!

(Nicky is on his seventh year of using a Mac at college/grad school and has never regretted it.  Some of his best friends have used PCs for that same amount of time and are also perfectly content.  Try a Mac; if you like it, get one.  If you don't, don't.  You won't have major problems either way.)

[MilkmanDan]

The question was "Can anybody find a real reason to keep away from macs?"
The answer would appear to be no.
Now clam down and move on.

[Valrus]

Now clam down and move on.

"Clam down?" Is that a typo, or a euphemism for "shut the fuck up?"

Hell, why not both?

[Se7en]

the main reasons are expense, and the fact that with a mac, support isnt so easy. If you have a PC and run into a problem, you can ask just about anyone for help. If you have a mac, even your geekiest friends may not be able to help you when you run into problems.

[Eldirial]

Well- the computer has been purchased, as my father lent me the money until my student loan check clears... So, thank you all for the ideas and opinions- I haven't been online as much to comment on them, but I sure caused an interesting debate. X.x

So, I did decide on a Mac, but I do have a PC to use when/if I need to (my laptop is a PC).. So I think I shall be able to enjoy the best of both worlds.

[jhocking]

the fact that with a mac, support isnt so easy...  If you have a mac, even your geekiest friends may not be able to help you when you run into problems.

If your friends all use PCs and know nothing about Macs then yes, I suppose this would be true.  In that case though, why would you ask them for help?  Me, if I need help with troubleshooting a Mac, I would ask somebody who uses a Mac.

Of course, I rarely ask other people to help troubleshoot my computer, since I am the guy other people come to for help with their computer.  For example, I was recently hired to maintain a couple of computer labs for a university's art department.  Macs are trivial to maintain; the only problems that require any real effort are hardware issues (Mac or PC, a broken harddrive is a broken harddrive.)  PCs however require constant vigilance.  It's not hard, but it soaks up a huge amount of time, and who, other than propellerheads like me, wants to spend a quarter of their computing time just dicking around with the machine?

BTW, I've used PCs much more than Macs, and am currently about to buy a Dell because the piece I'm currently working on will only run on Windows (I used DirectX.)  For the last couple years however I've used Macs for pretty much everything else (eg. I am typing this on my Powerbook.)


@elderial: I just noticed your location.  The aquarium is one of my favorite places.

[Eldirial]

I rather enjoy mystic- and the aquarium is great.  Seaport is also nice, I must say.

Only had one problem so far, but I figured it out with a little time.  Gimme a week or so with the OS, and I think I shall have it down.

[est]

locking this because you've already bought the new computer.

also, every single time anything is ever said about any kind of Apple anything people come out of the woodwork to bitch about it.  it ends up being annoying roughly 100% of the time.